Retail adoption for DASH.

Solarminer

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We need to get DASH working on these:
Maybe this is a good idea. The people filling the vending machines don't have to handle cash. Less concern about depositing cash at the bank and all that too. If you could design the machines so you can fill but can't takeout inventory. Fill from the top or something. Then just subcontract out the filling and and roll in the dough...er DASH.
 
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Solarminer

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So there is a new exchange on the block, LZF Exchange or Laissez Faire. They can legally operate in 49 states (US). Their setup is to somehow never actually touch money, but rather have the banks take care of deposits and they would be more of a service oriented company. They have an interesting marketplace setup that I frankly don't think will work so well for most traders, but who am I to say? It might work, though, if the people buying and selling in the marketplace are not traders. Traders would never want use this exchange because of the cost of pulling your orders, it's pretty high IMO.. but for those who just want to purchase crypto directly from fiat in the quickest and easiest way, and for those who want to sell off their coins asap such as merchants, it might be just the ticket!

Merchants, at least for the short term, will want to sell their dash off ASAP, and get their fiat. This exchange should have a very stable price index, one that will make the pricing of goods and services much easier. But the most important thing about this new exchange is that it accepts Dash.

Has anyone from the Dash team talked to this group? We should be setting up merchant solutions with them. They seem like just the group to get Dash into stores!
I guess I got a different view of this exchange. LZF gives significant bonuses for trades based on how far they are away from the average price. Seems like they are catering to traders....especially those that leave open trades.

They also require 24 confirmations for DASH deposits. Maybe we can work with them on that and accept Instantx instantly up to xx amount of DASH.
 

TanteStefana

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Solarminer, I got the opposite feeling. Their system seems to discourage "playing" the markets, and encourage people to set their price and leave it there. Traders don't want to do that. Their goal is to remove volatility, something merchants would want. It would also be OK for normal people just buying in. Frankly, I think they're going to find 1% is way too steep.

Anyway, I guess they're brand new, so we'll see how they do. But at some point, I think we need to help build merchant solutions for one or more exchange, preferably one that is legally established in the United States. Only because it's one of the hardest places to establish ourselves and because the US has one of the most users. We want to be in and established with a backing of lobbyist before the US creates more regulation everywhere, sending us to the fringe.
 
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Solarminer

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Solarminer, I got the opposite feeling. Their system seems to discourage "playing" the markets, and encourage people to set their price and leave it there. Traders don't want to do that. Their goal is to remove volatility, something merchants would want. It would also be OK for normal people just buying in. Frankly, I think they're going to find 1% is way too steep.

Anyway, I guess they're brand new, so we'll see how they do. But at some point, I think we need to help build merchant solutions for one or more exchange, preferably one that is legally established in the United States. Only because it's one of the hardest places to establish ourselves and because the US has one of the most users. We want to be in and established with a backing of lobbyist before the US creates more regulation everywhere, sending us to the fringe.
Ok, I see what you mean. I think the term is market maker vs market taker. They focus on the market maker. 1% is fair for BTC to US$, but BTC to alts is really high.

I really don't think we will be on the side of the lobbyists yet. Maybe we can get in a big chain store and they will give the push we need to get around any regulations. I am all for getting an exchange setup for merchant adoption. Then add merchants until we hit a critical mass to create our own regulations(or remove them).
 
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TaoOfSatoshi

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Solarminer, I got the opposite feeling. Their system seems to discourage "playing" the markets, and encourage people to set their price and leave it there. Traders don't want to do that. Their goal is to remove volatility, something merchants would want. It would also be OK for normal people just buying in. Frankly, I think they're going to find 1% is way too steep.

Anyway, I guess they're brand new, so we'll see how they do. But at some point, I think we need to help build merchant solutions for one or more exchange, preferably one that is legally established in the United States. Only because it's one of the hardest places to establish ourselves and because the US has one of the most users. We want to be in and established with a backing of lobbyist before the US creates more regulation everywhere, sending us to the fringe.
THey are also open to working with us, as indicated here:

https://dashtalk.org/threads/a-question-from-lzf.6126/
 
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TanteStefana

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Solarminer, the 1% is taken off your order, whether it be buy or sell, and distributed to those who have either been there longest, or are closest to the buy/sell divide. Not exactly sure how it works, but basically it encourages people to put their orders in close to where the current price is, and to not remove their orders once they're in place. Their take on trades is only 0.25%, so I think that's fine.

Thanks Tao, I posted there :).
 
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Solarminer

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Solarminer, the 1% is taken off your order, whether it be buy or sell, and distributed to those who have either been there longest, or are closest to the buy/sell divide. Not exactly sure how it works, but basically it encourages people to put their orders in close to where the current price is, and to not remove their orders once they're in place. Their take on trades is only 0.25%, so I think that's fine.

Thanks Tao, I posted there :).
Check out their video. It explains it in more detail. I took it that it gave extra .x% for a larger orders placed farther from the current sell price. They need to be held open (market maker) orders.
 

TanteStefana

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Solarminer, I still don't fully understand how much is being taken away from small bidders to pay those royalties. They don't explain that at all, but I know 1% is taken from your asks and sells to pay for it. Being that I have practically no coins, and am smaller than an ant, I would be very wary of using them. I've now lost Bitfinex, which was great, and Cryptsy is charging even more for withdrawals, which is why I stopped using them (small withdrawals are charged far more than big, as it's a flat fee) This doesn't look like a good fit for someone small like myself, I can only hope DashCurex will have low fees :(

On the other hand, this does look like it could work for big traders. The only problem is, will they come to trade here when they can make more coin due to volatility on other exchanges that allow bots etc... I think maybe traders won't come, but buyers may, and definitely merchants who will want to sell at the going rate immediately. So it sounds like great progress for us!
 

Solarminer

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Solarminer, I still don't fully understand how much is being taken away from small bidders to pay those royalties. They don't explain that at all, but I know 1% is taken from your asks and sells to pay for it. Being that I have practically no coins, and am smaller than an ant, I would be very wary of using them. I've now lost Bitfinex, which was great, and Cryptsy is charging even more for withdrawals, which is why I stopped using them (small withdrawals are charged far more than big, as it's a flat fee) This doesn't look like a good fit for someone small like myself, I can only hope DashCurex will have low fees :(

On the other hand, this does look like it could work for big traders. The only problem is, will they come to trade here when they can make more coin due to volatility on other exchanges that allow bots etc... I think maybe traders won't come, but buyers may, and definitely merchants who will want to sell at the going rate immediately. So it sounds like great progress for us!
I did a small trade of about 3 Dash on lzf. It cost .02 Dash to place the trade. And I paid about the same to withdraw BTC. I don't see these fees as a big deal.

I still really like shapeshift since it can be done in 10 minutes with no thinking about what bids to use. Usually, shapeshift will be 1 or 2% higher than an exchange for large trades, and less than 1% for small trades. Really, pretty good since you don't wait or pay withdraw or trade fees. Plus you can use it to pay for BTC stuff with your dash faster than if you just transferred from a BTC wallet. You can specify the exact btc to pay and it will take about 3 minutes - plenty of time for bitpay to catch it.
 
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Solarminer

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Back to the thread topic. I just came across www.coinkite.com. Looks like a bitpay like merchant processor for Bitcoin. They have a few products they are selling; Terminal with a printer, debit card, and even ATMs. Maybe this isn't the most elegant design, but they accept Bitcoin and Litecoin payments. Maybe it wouldn't be a stretch to get DASH on their network.

https://coinkite.com/store/products/all
 
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raganius

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Back to the thread topic. I just came across www.coinkite.com. Looks like a bitpay like merchant processor for Bitcoin. They have a few products they are selling; Terminal with a printer, debit card, and even ATMs. Maybe this isn't the most elegant design, but they accept Bitcoin and Litecoin payments. Maybe it wouldn't be a stretch to get DASH on their network.

https://coinkite.com/store/products/all
That's a great service, Coinkite.
 

dashboard

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As I accidentally began to realize while posting in the v12 announce thread...

We're looking at adoption all wrong.

DASH is too fancy and complicated to educate up front. Due to trolling and scamming, nobody wants to hear that their clonecoin doesn't do what they think it does due to guv propaganda used to catch dark markets. You can't reach them that way.
I think governments won't be too enthusiastic to legalize the use of private cryptocurrencies.
If you look at bitcon's history it's difficult enough, and it's not even anonymous.

Shadow economy is huge and users need anonymity and convenience.
The participants are regular citizens who like to go about their business without interference or approval by the government.
Tutors, physical laborers, consultants, cash-only restaurants, bars, flee market sellers, etc.

I am not aware of what unique needs they might have. I'd guess they'd want the usual (easy to use mobile wallet, liquidity, stable exchange rate), so to address this market it would not require development efforts that aren't wanted by most users.

(I am not against any particular use, I'm just suggesting this could be a natural Dash market).
 

camosoul

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I think governments won't be too enthusiastic to legalize the use of private cryptocurrencies.
Fortunately, not everyone feels the need to ask their owners' permission.

Anything that supports the Rights and Freedoms of The People; Governments will hate it. Get over it, man up, do what you will.
 
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dashboard

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Fortunately, not everyone feels the need to ask their owners' permission.

Anything that supports the Rights and Freedoms of The People; Governments will hate it. Get over it, man up, do what you will.
I'm all for that. Just saying as a registered business, you're on the hook and under the microscope.
 

orangecycle

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r-ando

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Now that Dash has a funding mechanism, retailers and Bitcoin machine operators could be approached directly and asked to incorporate Dash option. We could use the funding mechanism to pay for the costs they would incur to incorporate Dash into their existing ecosystem. That way we can say: Accept Dash and we will pay for your costs related to implementing it as a payment option.

Then we add them to an accepted retailers list. For retailers it is a two time gain because they save themselves the cost of implementing Dash as a payment option and they gain access to a new customer base.

For Dash users it adds to the use possibilities. For investors in Dash it adds to the value of the Dash ecosystem. All retailers in the world could technically be approached both big and small to add to the accepted retailers list.

I'd personally start with just about every retailer on Etsy and other small retailers first. If you look at Digibyte (which I am not invested in btw) they have a blue jeans retailer you can buy from. We should do the same thing with just about every retailer you can imagine.
 
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TanteStefana

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Mention of integrating btc with gas station pos on the latest LTB https://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/the-crypto-show-bitcoin-wallet-smackdown?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed: TheDailyBitcoinShow (Let's Talk Bitcoin Network Feed)

Around 11 minutes in. They don't go into detail other than to say they had some gas stations interested in accepting btc, but they couldn't figure out the pos integration.
What is it, WHAT IS IT WITH THESE GUYS?!?! We're right here, hey (waves) We're over HERE! We're instant, we're EASY. Geepers, are they really that blind to us, so .... asinine?

Ok, sorry, I should know better, there is a ban on Dash, you're not allowed to like it.
 

camosoul

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What is it, WHAT IS IT WITH THESE GUYS?!?! We're right here, hey (waves) We're over HERE! We're instant, we're EASY. Geepers, are they really that blind to us, so .... asinine?

Ok, sorry, I should know better, there is a ban on Dash, you're not allowed to like it.
It's the fanboy/cult closed-minded zealotry of crypto-crack-heads. Worse than any religious wacko. It's almost as bad as democrats...

We need to get them to brag about the gas stations that were interested, so we can snatch up the leads they failed to capitalize upon.

They're not going to hand it to us, we have to go get it. Or trick the fools into handing it over so we can get that part out of the way... :p

Budget Proposal anyone? I will totally pay Udjin to do this and donate the previously mentioned hardware. Maybe it's not the best way to do it, as previously discussed. But it would work. Something is better than nothing... This is better than an advertising campaign. "Doing what Bitcoin can't. DASH: Cryptocurrency for grown-ups."
 

TanteStefana

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It's the fanboy/cult closed-minded zealotry of crypto-crack-heads. Worse than any religious wacko. It's almost as bad as democrats...

We need to get them to brag about the gas stations that were interested, so we can snatch up the leads they failed to capitalize upon.

They're not going to hand it to us, we have to go get it. Or trick the fools into handing it over so we can get that part out of the way... :p

Budget Proposal anyone? I will totally pay Udjin to do this and donate the previously mentioned hardware. Maybe it's not the best way to do it, as previously discussed. But it would work. Something is better than nothing... This is better than an advertising campaign. "Doing what Bitcoin can't. DASH: Cryptocurrency for grown-ups."
Yah, put it in!
 

TanteStefana

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It's all about adoption folks.

I'll help you get this going. Anyone can edit this document. Be respectful with it.

http://www.writeurl.com/text/2itocn49nv679njn8nt1/n2uuamly3tbthfqa4n8w/zvpau9mhyuuaov331kxk
I can't edit, but I'd say gas stations could be the first big splash. I've never gotten over the first time Camosoul basically said 'get Crypto accepted at gas stations and you've arrived' That's not an exact quote, it was the gist. I can't remember where or when he first said something about Gas stations, but man, it made such an impression on me.

So yes, I would approach it this way.

Gather a few well placed, but independent gas stations willing to experiment (make sure some Dash users are nearby) and help them set up an integrated payment system. Get those Dash users to buy their gas there for a while, to see how it goes (if they're willing). We bare the upfront cost of putting in the equipment (this is going back to the beginning of this thread) and the gas station will hopefully keep it going long after.

This would probably go under marketing, as it should generate a lot of eyeballs and articles.

Then, after hyping it up, we approach Shell, Union, BP, whomever has chains of gas stations, especially around the world, and get them to install what we've created. Now we have public eyeballs on this weird machine, that says DASH on it. The rest will be history.
 

raganius

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It would be great. I know some owners of gas stations near here (three different brands). If there is a good support, I could offer it to them.

Also:

Paying with Bitcoin at the Gas Pump
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/paying-bitcoin-gas-pump-1398810681

You Can Now Pump Gas for Bitcoin in the Rocky Mountains
http://www.coindesk.com/pump-gas-for-bitcoin-in-the-us/

SpectroCoin Integrates Bitcoin Payments At Lukoil Gas Stations
http://cointelegraph.com/news/114217/spectrocoin-integrates-bitcoin-payments-at-lukoil-gas-stations

and: https://dashtalk.org/threads/retail-adoption-for-dash.6104/page-3#post-67053
 
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TanteStefana

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There ya have it. No need to even build the system, it's there! Just code in Dash and we'll reap the rewards of being compatible with Bitcoin! And when they don't have to worry about double spends, then we'll be the payment system of choice :)
 

stan.distortion

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Just a thought, not finished reading through yet. Most companies use diesel cards here, same kind of thing as a regular card but they can only be used for fuel and its the same price everywhere regardless of the pump price. As far as I know it uses the regular card infrastructure but they issue their own cards so there could be an opening for Dash loadable cards and from there saving those few percent by using Dash directly. I'd see getting that specialised hardware in use as a big issue but something like that, chain store cards etc. could be a stepping stone to using Dash directly, offering them a way to reduced their costs and a low cost means of implementing it.
 
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TanteStefana

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Just a thought, not finished reading through yet. Most companies use diesel cards here, same kind of thing as a regular card but they can only be used for fuel and its the same price everywhere regardless of the pump price. As far as I know it uses the regular card infrastructure but they issue their own cards so there could be an opening for Dash loadable cards and from there saving those few percent by using Dash directly. I'd see getting that specialised hardware in use as a big issue but something like that, chain store cards etc. could be a stepping stone to using Dash directly, offering them a way to reduced their costs and a low cost means of implementing it.
Reading this again, I just realized that those card readers belong to a service and we would have to arrange for them to accept our card, and pay their fees.

In reality, as the first post explains, the hardware is minimal, and if we could create the software to make it work, it'd be a slam dunk. We could start out by approaching stations that are near by a Dash supporter who can install the system for the station and get them up and running. It should be easy to do, if you have customers come inside to pay as they would cash, or we could integrate into their system so the pump could be selected, the amount sent, and what isn't used, refunded. All instantaneous. Remember, everything will be instantaneous with Evolution, so don't worry about how often funds can be sent without waiting for a block.
 

camosoul

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Reading this again, I just realized that those card readers belong to a service and we would have to arrange for them to accept our card, and pay their fees.
It could be wireless. It could be an adjunct of Google Maps. Click on the gas station, pick a pump, prepay. IX locks in 2.5 seconds, pump turns on, pump your gas, GTFO.

Hey Visa, MasterCard. Why don't you make room for us in your own hardware and your own system so that we can prove to the world that you're a bunch of irrelevant dicks and make you go from being god-like money, to bankrupt in about 4 days. Sounds cool by you, right?

Yeah, that's totally gonna happen. :p We have no use for it anyway. We can completely sidestep it.

Most everyone has a smartphone already. Have you never sent coin from one smartphone to another? We don't need their stinking system. We just need to sit next to it being all way better in every way.

We don't need their antiquated magnetic strip push buttons give out identity crap... The method is even different. Using a card, you provide a blank check and trust that they'll only fill in the correct amount, while also not letting anyone else get a blank check. With Crypto, you actively have to send the money to them, and tell them nothing about yourself or provide them any access in the process. No need to worry about anyone but yourself mismanaging it...

Oh, learning, and being responsible for one's self, that problem again... Give up your rights and freedom because you're too lazy and stupid to take responsibility for them... It's the new cool thing to do!

If you don't trust the person you're doing business with, and rely upon the ability to file a chargeback... Why the hell are you doing business with them in the first place? This keeps the bad apples alive...

Everything about the current system sucks. Good Lord, can't wait for Evan to unbank me! But I'm getting old, man, what's the holdup? :p

Make it easy for vendors to accept DASH and you'll see the stampede over bars already set lower then needed by constant polishing....
 

TanteStefana

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Yup, and the system could be packaged in a pretty box for a couple of hundred dollars, really.