Prevent Scams Pre-Proposal: Have Dash Donated to Foundation v1

Nick

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Mar 29, 2017
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Manually vote YES on this proposal (DashCore - Tools - Debugconsole):
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Manually vote NO on this proposal (DashCore - Tools - Debugconsole):
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Asking 1st month: ~35 Dash

The simple problem
:
There's several proposals where the project manager has taken the funds and not followed through or seemingly scammed the community.
This possibility becomes an increasing concern as our budget grows.

The simple solution:
Have the Dash Foundation handle all funding for proposals and release the funding as the project progresses.
This gives us the ability to track expenses and have arbitration contracts with project managers when needed.
Additionally, having a business entity doing our dealings would give us more credibility to fortune 500 companies.

Small requirements:
1.
The Dash Foundation will need an official donation address put on their website which will receive funds from the treasury. Users may still opt to use personal addresses for <$2,500 proposals.

2. Payouts to the treasury must be below increments of $5,000 as anything higher requires paperwork. Thus, a repeating payout will be sent every 10 minutes.

10min payout formula: ($2,500 / (current USD value for 1 dash))
*Note $2,500 is used inplace of $5,000 to give a 100% margin for fluctuations in the exchange price.
Example at current rates: Current price of dash: $60 | Dash in treasury: 10,000 | Total USD Value: $600,000
All funding received after: 2 days

Future example: Price of dash: $500 | Dash in treasury: 20,000 | Total USD Value: $10,000,000
All funding received after: 28 days
'
Suggested Exchanges for the Foundation
ShapeShift.io/affiliate.html
(Dash>BTC - awaiting a reply from them on a potential arrangement and will post their message)
coinbase.com / GDAX.com/ (>USD)

Suggested Escrow Service
https://www.escrow.com/milestones
https://bitrated.com/ (for <$2500 contracts as deemed necessary)

Suggested Arbitration Service
International Chamber of Commerce (same as Ethereum)

Project Team
HAROLD BOO - Foundations Treasurer
<Others TBD>

Projected Timeline
To be determined after discussion.

Other Concerns

The security of the donation wallet! Have a multi-signature setup for the dash wallet and store it in a safety deposit box. Coinbase is the best exchange option as it offers 2 factor authentication, insurance, and a multi-signature BTC vault.
The person convertering BTC>USD would need to be in a monitored room on a computer with limited access while a trusted second party has access to the 2 factor authentication device.

Contingency Plan for Frozen Coinbase Account; Buy Limits
Have a Bitstamp account ready with appropriate security measures through Bitgo's API.
 
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demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
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Dash Address
XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX

Other Concerns
The security of the donation wallet! Have a multi-signature setup for the dash wallet and store it in a safety deposit box. Coinbase is the best exchange option as it offers 2 factor authentication, insurance, and a multi-signature BTC vault. The main converter of BTC>USD would need to be in a monitored room on a computer with limited access while a trusted second party has access to the 2 factor authentication device.
Bitgo offers multi-signatures for the BitStamp exchange too. One last alternative that needs to explored is a Bitpay business account.
Why asking web sites to create the multisig address?
You can create one at your own wallet.
See createmultisig

By the way, I started a multisig fundrasing for the reduction of the budget proposal fee. You are welcome to post a message there and declate whatever you may want to offer.
 
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Nick

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Mar 29, 2017
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like who?
I don't know the relationship structure of the community yet so I will abstain from saying. I've only briefly looked over about half of the recent proposals and indepth on one which I made the discovery. More senior members could probably comment on past proposals.

Storing your own keys always runs the risk of losing them, being stolen, or acts of god.

Thanks demo, I will look into that.
 
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JZA

Active Member
Jan 4, 2016
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alexandro.biz
Dash Address
XmZ3aBBWJdYa6hUJkWbTvwHMwMscmHQFNH
I don't know the relationship structure of the community yet so I will abstain from saying. I've only briefly looked over about half of the recent proposals and indepth on one which I made the discovery. More senior members could probably comment on past proposals.
So you identified a problem, but you cant verify it or mention where it is? this is very shady.

You expect people to just take your claims as fact? And give you money so you can centralize the process that was designed to be descentralized on the first place.
 
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Nick

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Mar 29, 2017
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I'm not asking for money, just delivering the discussion so let's focus on it. The 35 dash is a rough estimate for the several work hours it may take to reimburse whoever takes up the project - preferably a known foundation member.
I'll start asking around for someone to volunteer to repost the thread and hold the funds if I know there's interest and the details can be handled.
 
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JZA

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Jan 4, 2016
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alexandro.biz
Dash Address
XmZ3aBBWJdYa6hUJkWbTvwHMwMscmHQFNH
This has failure written all over it, basically you want to recreate bureacracy, lets get a bunch of people, and give them the control of the funds, so they decide.

The innovation of DASH Treasury is that it doesnt relly on bureacrats, power is not concentrated on an elite, and even thought MN is not techincally everyone in the community at least is not a concentrated on an extreme minority like government usually are.

All you need to to have elections and bravo, basically you recreate a government.
 

Nick

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Mar 29, 2017
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What are known as permanent restrictions on donations and the foundation's bylaws still allow us to set conditions to control the funding.

Decentralized or otherwise you always need trust and as the system stands there's no accountability after the funds are sent.

"The innovation of DASH Treasury is that it doesn't relly on bureacrats, power is not concentrated on an elite"
The current governance structure for Dash is vulnerable to the corruption we've seen in traditional bureaucracy - you can have individuals who control the direction of funding and these individuals are able to gain more power through high net worth and financial manipulation, and through closed door lobbying.

If anyone wants to ask the Dash for money we need to know who we're dealing with or at least have measures in place to ensure they're getting the job done and receiving milestone funding as they progress. "I have this idea, here's my social media accounts and business website," and then no due diligence is done to at least verify the company is not how dealings are done in reality.

I'll continue to look into more decentralized options we can consider but we can solve these problems with some kind of third party check in place. So far, I've sent emails out to ConsenSys and Third Key solutions to see if they would like to weigh in on possible solutions and will continue to research myself.
 
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JZA

Active Member
Jan 4, 2016
516
226
113
Cancun
alexandro.biz
Dash Address
XmZ3aBBWJdYa6hUJkWbTvwHMwMscmHQFNH
This is going against everything that cryptocurrency standfor, the system is meant to be private, trustless and secure. Not your stupid bureacratic government full of corruption, entitlement and fake morality.

Stop trying to assume our system dont work cuz we definetly know yours dont.
 

Nick

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Mar 29, 2017
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The most recent promising find: https://twitter.com/duosearch. We should reach out to the OpenBazaar guys and learn more to decide if we could help make this happen.

For now, I think the best revision of the opening proposal would be to keep the idea of a main dash multisig wallet for the treasury owned by select trusted members, and have a core member responsible for validating passed proposals, monitoring these projects, and releasing payments to them as the project progresses through an account on OpenBazaar or Bitrated. This satisfies concerns we've both mentioned and is much more decentralized.
 

Vedran Yoweri

Active Member
Apr 29, 2015
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Your value does x 10, get noobs coming here telling us they know exactly what's wrong with us and how to fix it.
f-ing internet.
 
Mar 13, 2017
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This would never get my votes, the treasury is working fine. Just take a look at all those passed proposals on dash central :cool:
 

camosoul

Grizzled Member
Sep 19, 2014
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The current governance structure for Dash is venerable to the corruption we've seen in traditional Bureaucracy
I think you meant "vulnerable."

I don't think I'd go as far as to call it corruption, but the governance system is an illusion. But, letting the true power rest where it does, I think, is better than the alternative, because MNOs are generally still a bunch of soclialist retards.

I see only 2 drawbacks in the current model:

1) It proves that the governance is a farce.
2) Those who do hold the power have let it go to their heads.

The alternative would be much worse... So I hang around because it's the lesser of the evils.
 
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Nick

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Mar 29, 2017
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This would never get my votes, the treasury is working fine. Just take a look at all those passed proposals on dash central :cool:
I'll give you the one example I was referencing to to get my point across.

https://www.dashcentral.org/p/Buy-Sell-Dash-directly-within-the-WALLET
From the sound file:
[21:40] <states they have somebody constantly working hard to get your coins as quickly as possible on our own internal services>
Dash user ctafti states this on the proposal comments: Voting no due to Wall of Coins having never worked out for me. There are either no sellers or extremely high fees. If it was a different service I would vote yes
[22:05] When you come to wall of coins you tell us how much you want to spend, we return to you the least expensive bitcoin, we're also calculating and keep in mind the response time of these sellers.
[28:50] We have technology in front of our service that is monitoring these buyers and has very intelligently found people who are specially targeting man in the middle payment type of attacks so we use this alongside our compliance.
[1:15:20] When you go to the site, if you see your flag on the area where you sign in, then we support the country.
[1:15:35] I thought I also read that you guys are completely cold storage, how doe that work
? Yes absolutely, 100% cold storage - um so if you could refine that question, "how does it work for me?"
[1:16:17] Just to make sure, when the seller transfers his crypto currency, does it transfer directly to the buyer or do you guys act as escrow.
...we act as escrow
...is that where the cold storage come in
...correct, our escrow is our cold storage
...how do you define your cold storage
[1:17:00] by cold storage what we mean is that these private keys have ever had any possible access to the internet, private keys are - there's layers upon layers to keep them out of where they're at, they're frozen there, they're not moving anywhere.
Red flags:
1.
They take cash in the mail and direct bank deposits and state they use cold storage in escrow. This service can easily be provided in a much more trust-less manner through an api 3 party multi sig solution.
2. Whois shows he owns the domain Wall of Coins but there is no registered copyright as stated. The stated address on Wall of Coins actually shows a business that doesn't exist, Vista Systems. The registered business he does own is a bitcoin mining service with practically no information and no registered copyright as stated.
3. [59:20-59:45] States they have been working with backpage for two and a half years, a site known for child and adult sex trafficking.
4. Seems to use salesman tactics on the spot to allure users:

[22:40] Do you charge more for faster service? You might pay an extra penny for faster service, or pay an extra 10 cents or 10 cents less.

[28:50] We have technology in front of our service that is monitoring these buyers and has very intelligently found people who are specially targeting man in the middle payment type of attacks so we use this alongside our compliance."

[1:14:43] One thing I don't think we asked that's still worth asking: is wall of coins international? - Yes ,i dont remember how many countries now but maybe it's 15, we're getting to a point where we're adding countries by the week.
- Is mexico 1 of them? Yes.

[1:18:50] Is your cold storage model relatively unique or...
- it's definitely, definitely, say it I don't know if any other company is doing any other thing similar to this, and we would love to offer this to other businesses we would love to systematize the packaging behind it

...oh and offer this as a service... -...<yes>, you know like an enterprise solution.
5. There's two readily available claims about this company scamming or not following through with payments (1 2).
6. https://www.dash.org/forum/members/rgenito.6339/ Has only one post before this proposal and made his proposal a few days before voting ended. A user with around the same join date backed his claim.

The conversation he has with this user can be heard here.
His main selling point is that he had experience with an app using a in-wallet selling feature named Postshare, a link which forwards from a page disguised as the apple store. The page has no about, terms of use or other typically information. I have my doubts this could even be done in the US due to legalities.

The aforementioned user also tried helping this proposal pass which I'm already see red flags as well. I briefly skimmed the recent proposal page and I'd be interested in looking more into the ATM proposals if I was inclined. I also recall a previous thread where a user stated that a $50,000 was never delivered by the manager but another user defended him saying it was a learning experience for the project manager. I just got here a few days ago and the list goes on I'm sure.

With no measures in place the MNs will continue getting con proposals like these mixed in with the core ones that have been positively driving development.

Get a multisig wallet and bitcoin escrow account, get a evaluation committee, have the foundation handle funds - do something, or money will continued to be thrown away at this point.
 
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