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Pre-Proposal: Let all the actors (MNOs, Miners, Stakeholders) vote, then take into account only MNOs

Discussion in 'Pre + Budget Proposal Discussions' started by demo, Jan 15, 2017.

?

Let all the actors to vote, just for statistical reasons while their vote does not count.

  1. yes

    35.0%
  2. no

    60.0%
  3. other

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. 'yes, but let them vote by contributing on the forum and self-identifying which actor they are

    5.0%
  1. Macrochip

    Macrochip Active Member
    Masternode Owner/Operator

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    If they weren't they wouldn't write this on the top:

    "Voting requires proof of bitcoin holdings via cryptographic signatures. Signed votes cannot be forged, and are fully auditable by all users."
     
  2. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    No...this is not the same. They cannot forge the votes for sure, because of the PKI.
    But they can delete the votes, or delete proposals, because they do not use blockchain to store them.

    Look inside their core.
    https://github.com/bitcoin-portal/bitcoinocracy/

    It seems that all information is stored into their centralized database.
    https://github.com/bitcoin-portal/bitcoinocracy/tree/master/db

    Of course I am not sure, so prove me I am wrong.
     
    #62 demo, Feb 11, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2017
  3. Macrochip

    Macrochip Active Member
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    Do you really expect me to read the entire source code? No. You make the claim, you back it up. Show me the line.

    They can't "delete" votes or proposals. They can only decide to "not show" them on their site which is open censorship and requires special effort because the website is merely mirroring the content of the blockchain. Besides: Even if what you say were the case: So what? It's opensource. Any mildly talented developer can port it to Dash and fix the purported flaws.
     
  4. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    The line you are asking me to show you does not exist.

    There is no line into their code that shows that they store the votes or the proposals into the blockchain, or that they retrieve the votes or the proposals from the blockchain.

    So you are the one who should show the line and prove your claim, not me.
     
  5. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    I agree. Thats why I already said:
     
  6. GrandMasterDash

    GrandMasterDash Well-known Member
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    It might be more helpful if dash switched to some form of proof-of-stake.. that might make it easier for everyone to vote, and it would bypass centralised mining which is clearly a growing problem re: Venezuela / China clamp downs, regulators.. but there's no chance of that happening, Core loves regulation so much
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  7. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    By the way, after a small investigation, it seems that the https://github.com/FollowMyVote people are storing the votes into the blockchain.

    Look at the video:


    The guy seems handsome and talented. Shall the masternodes hire him to advertise Dash like amanda is doing? :p

     
    #67 demo, Feb 11, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2017
    • Trolling Trolling x 1
  8. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    Followmyvotes uses blind signatures technology in order to both identify voters and at the same time protect their anonymity.

    I have already said here that this will happen oneday .

    Watch the video.



    <vote history>
    Let all the actors to vote, just for statistical reasons while their vote does not count.
    *yes 2 vote(s) 22.2%
    no 6 vote(s) 66.7%
    other 0 vote(s) 0.0%
    'yes, but let them vote by contributing on the forum and self-identifying which actor they are 1 vote(s) 11.1%
    </vote history>
     
    #68 demo, Feb 11, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2017
  9. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    <vote history><--- why vote history is usefull.
    Let all the actors to vote, just for statistical reasons while their vote does not count.
    yes 3 vote(s) 30.0%
    no 6 vote(s) 60.0%
    other 0 vote(s) 0.0%
    'yes, but let them vote by contributing on the forum and self-identifying which actor they are 1 vote(s) 10.0%
    </vote history>
     
    #69 demo, Apr 10, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2017
    • Trolling Trolling x 1
  10. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    <vote history>
    Let all the actors to vote, just for statistical reasons while their vote does not count.
    *yes 3 vote(s) 27.3%
    no 7 vote(s) 63.6%
    other 0 vote(s) 0.0%
    'yes, but let them vote by contributing on the forum and self-identifying which actor they are 1 vote(s) 9.1%
    </vote history>
     
  11. Technologov

    Technologov Member

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    I'm against this idea.
    Either we let them vote or not. Vote for statistics is a no-no.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  12. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    The vote statistics is the scientific method in order to prove who is the better in governing. There is the dogma and the blind faith here in the Dash community, that whoever has more than 1000 Dash, he is better in governing. This will never change, until someone proves the wrong of it. And how can we prove that wrong?

    Only If we keep the statistics of the votes of all the actors, we will have in the future the proof of who really deserves to govern DASH.

    For example, in the lamassu project, the MNOs did an obvious error in their decision, and they lost 7000 dash. If we had at that time the voting statistics by all the actors, we could prove whether some other actors have voted more wisely And if we manage to accumulate a lot of similar fail cases like lamassu project, we could then claim that the masternodes are not suitable to govern DASH.

    This is why the voting statistics by all actors is an extremely usefull feature, even if the votes do not count. It is the scientific method in order to prove who deserves to govern.

    [​IMG]

    Stop believing that the masternodes owners deserve to govern. Start knowing whether they are the best in that field. Let all actors cast hypothetical votes.

    I am obviously right in my logic , so I consider that the people who vote against this proposal are not rational beings. They are beings closer to irrational beasts, closer to all those miserable blind fanatic believers who live among us, and who always destroy the world around them with their irrational decisions.

    <vote history>
    Let all the actors to vote, just for statistical reasons while their vote does not count.
    * yes 3 vote(s) 21.4%
    no 10 vote(s) 71.4%
    other 0 vote(s) 0.0%
    'yes, but let them vote by contributing on the forum and self-identifying which actor they are 1 vote(s) 7.1%
    </vote history>
     
    #72 demo, May 6, 2017
    Last edited: May 6, 2017
  13. GDASHMoney

    GDASHMoney New Member

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    I see the idea put forth here as nothing more harmful than a weather barometer.

    More data is good. Why not let MN holders gauge what the entire DASH community is feeling before casting their vote?

    Essentially, by possessing the voting powers, MN holders are representatives of the non-MN holder community by default, like it or not.

    So if they want their reason for being a MN holder in the first place to continue (an ever increasing DASH userbase) they should at minimum consider the thoughts of that userbase. Easier to know what those thoughts are if you give them a specific forum.
     
  14. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    Because this may reveal the truth about how stupid, selfish or greedy the MN holders are.
    The MN holders tremble with fear , at the possibility for someone to be able to scientifically prove that the MN kings are naked.

    <vote history>
    Let all the actors to vote, just for statistical reasons while their vote does not count.
    *yes 4 vote(s) 23.5%
    no 12 vote(s) 70.6%
    other 0 vote(s) 0.0%
    'yes, but let them vote by contributing on the forum and self-identifying which actor they are 1 vote(s) 5.9%
    </vote history>
     
  15. GDASHMoney

    GDASHMoney New Member

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    I wouldn't go so far as to say that MN holders "tremble with fear" about much of anything, really. I mean, you have to be an intelligent and adventurous soul to even consider being a MN holder, let alone pull it off day after day, week after week, even year after year for some. So my hat is off to all of them, for doing what they're doing. I wish I could, and I would if I could. Sure, they're reaping the rewards of exponential value increase at the moment. But there's no guarantee that things will stay that way. In the morning, it could all be very different. Just remember that before much reward, comes much risk. But also remember - to whom much is given, much is required.

    But I'm also sure that MN holders must be intelligent enough to know that without a reliable way to easily and consistently estimate what their userbase (as a whole) is feeling on important issues, and maybe even some issues that others might consider trivial.. I mean, without some kind of DAO sanctioned, transparent and "democratic" mechanism in place for those issues to be settled in the public square of the Dash Nation, if you will, then it can foster an environment that can start to come a little too close to resembling an elite, closed circle.

    Which is one of many reasons why all of us are working so hard towards making this brand new, collaborative business model work. It's my guess that nearly everyone here would agree that We of the DAO would like to see the "good 'ol boy" clubs and networks that we're all too familiar with, be eliminated by the quality use of this beautiful thing called blockchain that's been so benevolently given to all of mankind.

    Let's be the shining example, the benchmark - by which other DAOs measure themselves.

    IMHO.
     
  16. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    All this is in theory. In optimistic theory.

    In practice the bad truth is that stupids and spies bought masternodes in order to stop governance. The employers of the spies tremble with fear when they realize that a cryptocoin will occur that will have effective governance, so they want to control it and intercept it, so they buy in order to gain voting rights and vote against whatever proposal is towards the effective governance goal.
     
    #76 demo, May 9, 2017
    Last edited: May 9, 2017
    • Dumb Dumb x 2
  17. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    <vote history>
    Let all the actors to vote, just for statistical reasons while their vote does not count.
    *yes 6 vote(s) 31.6%
    no
    12 vote(s) 63.2%
    other 0 vote(s) 0.0%
    'yes, but let them vote by contributing on the forum and self-identifying which actor they are 1 vote(s) 5.3%
    </vote history>
     
    • Trolling Trolling x 1
  18. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    Thanks to @LorenzoRey it is the first time in Dash history where two Dash electorates vote for the same subject!

    1. https://www.dashcentral.org/p/DASH-TEXT-SMS-WALLETS
    2. https://www.dashboost.org/proposals/view/125/DASH TEXT SMS WALLETS FOR EVERYONE FIRST STAGE VENEZUELA

    Lets see what the result of the vote will be, and let the science investigate in the future which electorate was right and which was wrong.

    <vote history>
    Let all the actors to vote, just for statistical reasons while their vote does not count.
    * yes 7 vote(s) 35.0%
    no 12 vote(s) 60.0%
    other 0 vote(s) 0.0%
    'yes, but let them vote by contributing on the forum and self-identifying which actor they are 1 vote(s) 5.0%

    </vote history>


    [​IMG]
     
    #78 demo, Jul 19, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2018

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