[pre-proposal] Exchange Listing Incentive Program

Would you vote for this proposal? MNO's only please!

  • Yes

    Votes: 10 76.9%
  • No

    Votes: 2 15.4%
  • Abstain

    Votes: 1 7.7%

  • Total voters
    13

halso

Active Member
Apr 27, 2016
439
235
113
Sydney, Australia
I would encourage revolut to be included. They have 700k customers. Rapidly expanding and have announced they will include cryptos in the near future.
 

DashDude

Member
Jul 10, 2017
108
78
78
I wanted to give an update on current status of this proposal. I was waiting on feedback from Daniel Diaz @Minotaur and I did receive an email from him. I won't go into all the details, but as I expected he did have some legitimate concerns that need to be addressed. For example, some exchanges might be open to a deal privately, but may not like a public bounty program. Some exchanges might be able to accept help in the form of technical consultations, but may not be able to accept payment for listing. Daniel also suggested that in Japan regulatory issues/clarifications were of greater importance than the cost of doing the integration.

I think this proposal can be modified to better address what's actually needed and I've asked Daniel what he needs and how we can help. Let's see what he comes back with and go from there. Thanks for all the comments and the spirited debate on this proposal!
 

Skaarup

New Member
Jun 19, 2017
2
1
3
31
I like the idea but Dashdude you need to core team to handle the dash and I might even say that it's too much dash, I think we can prop most people for much less dash.. It's free for the exchanges and for that much dash you need more than just a listing. But I will vote yes if the dash team handle the dashcoins because dude who are you? We have been scammed before.. But I like your thinking but again it's a lot of dash.
 

MizzyMax

Member
Feb 14, 2017
168
31
88
26
I like NEM a lot but like most cryptos, they do not have an ongoing funding model (despite having supernodes). Decisions like that limit their growth and that's exactly the same thinking that lead them to their restrictive exchange policy. And don't forget, NEM doesn't need (or want?) public exchanges so much because they also concentrate on their private mijin blockchain.
Yea I know sadly they don't, I wish they did. But I thought I should bring it up, it's a valid point that they don't need to pay exchanges to carry them.

Also I think we should really just get the perspective in our head that none of them can be trusted. We could give them 1000 Dash and they can run off with it like MT.gox. Even encouraging our users to hold Dash on exchanges could be a large risk. If these exchanges go down so do we. But if we don't encourage the use of exchanges, and exchanges fall, we don't. Personally I think of exchanges as banks, they are not going to be around forever.
 

DashDude

Member
Jul 10, 2017
108
78
78
Hi, @Skaarup. Did you see that my proposal already includes a multisig escrow? I don't expect anyone to trust me with the escrow funds, especially when it's not necessary. Regarding the size and nature of incentives, I'm trying to refine this with Daniel Diaz as I mentioned in my post earlier today.

@halso - Thanks for the heads up on revolut. I'll check them out.
 

MizzyMax

Member
Feb 14, 2017
168
31
88
26
Assuming a starting price of 170$ per Dash then issuing 1000 extra dash would drop the price to 170*(7435435/7436435) = 169.977
And depending on the exchange I can easily see the price increase a couple dollars probably even more.

Regarding NEM comparing prices is not appropriate as they are based too much on speculation. And if you instead compare tx/day i.e. actual usage then Dash is ahead.
its a waste, why even care to buy out these exchanges honestly. They provide no value to Dash. We need to grow from the inside instead of trying to force the outside to accept us.

I find them to be extremely shady, almost all of them are. Do you yourself use these exchanges daily? Or anyone for that matter. Please list the exchanges you actually Hace used and trust that Dash isn't on.

And if NEMs price is not just based on speculation, it's value, and Core product is based on that number.
 

bigshort

New Member
Nov 26, 2016
4
1
3
40
I wanted to give an update on current status of this proposal. I was waiting on feedback from Daniel Diaz @Minotaur and I did receive an email from him. I won't go into all the details, but as I expected he did have some legitimate concerns that need to be addressed. For example, some exchanges might be open to a deal privately, but may not like a public bounty program. Some exchanges might be able to accept help in the form of technical consultations, but may not be able to accept payment for listing. Daniel also suggested that in Japan regulatory issues/clarifications were of greater importance than the cost of doing the integration.

I think this proposal can be modified to better address what's actually needed and I've asked Daniel what he needs and how we can help. Let's see what he comes back with and go from there. !
Dont worry too much about the individual wishes of the exchanges. Your approach is a broad approach "to whom it may concern". It will make waves and will start things going. Nobody took the effort to approach every single one of the exchanges individually. So now we do it in a different way. Keep on moving forward!
 

Ryan Taylor

Well-known Member
Dash Core Team
Foundation Member
Jul 3, 2014
550
1,649
263
Scottsdale, AZ, USA
I wanted to give an update on current status of this proposal. I was waiting on feedback from Daniel Diaz @Minotaur and I did receive an email from him. I won't go into all the details, but as I expected he did have some legitimate concerns that need to be addressed. For example, some exchanges might be open to a deal privately, but may not like a public bounty program. Some exchanges might be able to accept help in the form of technical consultations, but may not be able to accept payment for listing. Daniel also suggested that in Japan regulatory issues/clarifications were of greater importance than the cost of doing the integration.

I think this proposal can be modified to better address what's actually needed and I've asked Daniel what he needs and how we can help. Let's see what he comes back with and go from there. Thanks for all the comments and the spirited debate on this proposal!
Yes, just seeing this now. As I reviewed your list of exchanges and my knowledge of the issues they face, funding is almost never the major issue that requires our assistance, and for regulatory reasons, they often cannot accept payment anyway. This proposal is well-intentioned, but in my opinion would do little to encourage Dash adoption. In some cases, an exchange needs us to integrate into their platform provider (because they don't run their own infrastructure) so we are doing that. In others, the issue is regulatory (you mentioned Japan). For other exchanges, the issue is that they need to address some scalability issues first to handle current volumes (adding more coins would only make the problem worse right now), and so they can't add Dash until Q1 2018 when scalability projects are complete.

In short, monetary incentives are rarely going to accelerate a Dash listing, so you'd be giving away funds needlessly with little incremental acceleration of a Dash listing. We are not in discussions with ALL of the targets you mention, but enough for us to know this would have little impact on the most critical listings. Where funding makes a difference, like paying for Kraken's security review, we are already taking the steps to fund those expenses.
 
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Dashmaximalist

Active Member
Mar 16, 2017
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I like NEM a lot but like most cryptos, they do not have an ongoing funding model (despite having supernodes). Decisions like that limit their growth and that's exactly the same thinking that lead them to their restrictive exchange policy. And don't forget, NEM doesn't need (or want?) public exchanges so much because they also concentrate on their private mijin blockchain.

Heres why dash is the best crypto out there as its a hybrid of POW with POS -Service ( unless this is my genuine worry ... facebook clones dash and gives $5 for every user ) , NEM is pure POS (proof of stake ) coin, what it means there is no mining happening whatsoever and the original people keep getting more and more coins as time progress that's only a minor issue , the major issue is this
we all speak about the 51% attack right , in POS the cost to do that is literally zero to the attacker , if a group of people manage to get 51% of the coins ( and eventually they will ) they can and will start attacking the transaction processing and start diverting funds, in POW there is a pretty reasonable cost in terms of mining power required etc

you might be thinking why will people do that ? imagine CIA decides it has enough with this crypto revolution ( and people gaining control over the most important part of their lives which is money ) they will look out for the richest folks holding NEM coin and round them up and the CIA will start attacking this coin, in case of POW they need to travel to 10000s of places where mining is taking place and imagine mining happening in north korea ( as they figured out its very profitable to do it ) they simply cant step in. with POS its as simple as catching a person etc etc, so NEM can never be a currency it can be a token like a share etc

so POS can never be a trusted currency as we all know pure POW Like bitcoin has tons of ongoing issues :)
 

bigshort

New Member
Nov 26, 2016
4
1
3
40
Yes, just seeing this now. As I reviewed your list of exchanges and my knowledge of the issues they face, funding is almost never the major issue that requires our assistance, and for regulatory reasons, they often cannot accept payment anyway. This proposal is well-intentioned, but in my opinion would do little to encourage Dash adoption. In some cases, an exchange needs us to integrate into their platform provider (because they don't run their own infrastructure) so we are doing that. In others, the issue is regulatory (you mentioned Japan). For other exchanges, the issue is that they need to address some scalability issues first to handle current volumes (adding more coins would only make the problem worse right now), and so they can't add Dash until Q1 2018 when scalability projects are complete.

In short, monetary incentives are rarely going to accelerate a Dash listing, so you'd be giving away funds needlessly with little incremental acceleration of a Dash listing. We are not in discussions with ALL of the targets you mention, but enough for us to know this would have little impact on the most critical listings. Where funding makes a difference, like paying for Kraken's security review, we are already taking the steps to fund those expenses.
To be honest with you, I am not very convinced by your reply. The proposal mentions 10 exchanges. Considering your workload, you are probably only in contact with very few of them. You are also quoting issues the exchanges might have (regulatory, capacity) without really being very specific. We should not worry too much about the exchanges problems. It is their business not ours, and eventually it is their task to find a way around these roadblocks. Exchanges solve these kind of issues every day when they list coins. The only thing we are asking them to do is to let us skip the queue. Why? Because we have money to offer. And believe me, money talks. Maybe they do not admit it to you, but they want to make money. Please do not discourage this offer. It costs you very little time and - if it is not taken up by the exchanges - it does not cost any money either.
 
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Dashmaximalist

Active Member
Mar 16, 2017
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You raised some very fair points , the more exchanges we are on the better

Especially the Chinese ones that's where the real money is
 

JGCMiner

Moderator
Moderator
Jun 8, 2014
364
217
113
To be honest with you, I am not very convinced by your reply. The proposal mentions 10 exchanges. Considering your workload, you are probably only in contact with very few of them. You are also quoting issues the exchanges might have (regulatory, capacity) without really being very specific. We should not worry too much about the exchanges problems. It is their business not ours, and eventually it is their task to find a way around these roadblocks. Exchanges solve these kind of issues every day when they list coins. The only thing we are asking them to do is to let us skip the queue. Why? Because we have money to offer. And believe me, money talks. Maybe they do not admit it to you, but they want to make money. Please do not discourage this offer. It costs you very little time and - if it is not taken up by the exchanges - it does not cost any money either.
In general I think you are oversimplifing things on top of making assumptions about what information Core has available. It is perfectly plausible that in many cases money is not the problem. For example, Dash may actually be first in an exchange's queue, but if there is some other legal or capacity issue then money from our treasury won't really help. Also, bribes are illegal in the vast majority of countries so I would not be surprised if exchanges can't legally accept money in order to let us "skip the queue".

In short, Ryan's explaination aligns quite closely with my experiences in the business world. As such, no offense to the pre-proposer, but I am not sure how effective this initiative will be in practice.

Just my 2 cents...
 

bigshort

New Member
Nov 26, 2016
4
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40
In general I think you are oversimplifing things on top of making assumptions about what information Core has available. It is perfectly plausible that in many cases money is not the problem. For example, Dash may actually be first in an exchange's queue, but if there is some other legal or capacity issue then money from our treasury won't really help. Also, bribes are illegal in the vast majority of countries so I would not be surprised if exchanges can't legally accept money in order to let us "skip the queue".

In short, Ryan's explaination aligns quite closely with my experiences in the business world. As such, no offense to the pre-proposer, but I am not sure how effective this initiative will be in practice.

Just my 2 cents...
Ok, I admit that I do not know whether it would work or not. But it is the same with you. You do not know either, whether the exchanges would find a way to make it possible. There are ten chances and I bet, that at least on of them finds a way to take the money (even if it is indirekt). We do not know whether it works to put Dash-logos on planes, busses and even boxers, but we do it anyway. Let the masternodes decide about the best use of the money. The beauty of this proposal is, that you get your money back, is it does not work.