Pre-proposal: DASH PrivateSend De-Anonymization Contest

Would you vote for this proposal? MNOs only please!

  • Yes

    Votes: 26 83.9%
  • No

    Votes: 3 9.7%
  • Abstain

    Votes: 2 6.5%

  • Total voters
    31

solarguy

Active Member
Mar 15, 2017
873
430
133
61
1. Good on the researchers for finding a potential exploit. Finding the problem is the the first step to fixing the problem.

2. They set up their own testnet basically, and looked at very simple edge cases with the minimum amount of mixing. They state right in the paper that the exploit doesn't work on regular/normal PrivateSend transactions.

Conclusion: In the lab, on a stripped down/simplified network with very very limited mixing, they have found a potential exploit. Nice to know, doesn't actually apply in real life. See MooCow's (and other folks') comments here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/dashpay/comments/6zols1/blocksci_paper_highlights_blockchain_traceability/
 

DashDude

Member
Jul 10, 2017
108
78
78
I had a discussion about this paper with @moocowmoo on Monday. The core team is still reviewing the paper, but the attack vector affects edge cases and would not affect this contest as it is planned.
 

Super8

Active Member
Mar 27, 2015
295
153
103
That's a relief.

What with Instant Send currently turned off, and Private Send apparently vulnerable and the whole crypto market falling... I was beginning to feel slightly less optimistic. Hopefully these are all just bumps in the road.
 

solarguy

Active Member
Mar 15, 2017
873
430
133
61
This is what "buy the ....... dips" actually looks like. When the unsophisticated and poorly informed crypto investors hear something scary, they go dump their stash.

The seasoned investors that base their investment strategy on several factors (none of which are emotion) think, "Hey! Crypto is on sale."

Is there a risk that some unanticipated black swan event could cause the whole cryptoverse to drop in value by 90%? Sure, that's still possible. Don't invest any money in any crypto that you can't afford to lose in its entirety.

It's also worthwhile to consider the perspective of most of the world that has crappy fiat, crappy predatory banking services, and the ever present threat of capital controls. "Hey look, Dash went down 10% yesterday. But I'm still up almost 50% for the month. And the Bolivar lost 65% in that same time period. Better buy some more."
 
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Super8

Active Member
Mar 27, 2015
295
153
103
This is what "buy the ....... dips" actually looks like. When the unsophisticated and poorly informed crypto investors hear something scary, they go dump their stash.

The seasoned investors that base their investment strategy on several factors (none of which are emotion) think, "Hey! Crypto is on sale."

Is there a risk that some unanticipated black swan event could cause the whole cryptoverse to drop in value by 90%? Sure, that's still possible. Don't invest any money in any crypto that you can't afford to lose in its entirety.

It's also worthwhile to consider the perspective of most of the world that has crappy fiat, crappy predatory banking services, and the ever present threat of capital controls. "Hey look, Dash went down 10% yesterday. But I'm still up almost 50% for the month. And the Bolivar lost 65% in that same time period. Better buy some more."
Wise words mate.

Don't worry I am a seasoned investor and I was being over dramatic for effect. heh heh..

I am a massive Hoddler.

:)
 
Last edited:
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Jmmon

New Member
Mar 9, 2017
16
15
3
I love this idea and think this should be implemented sooner rather than later.

On the reward, pricing it in USD adds an interesting dynamic. Increasing the USD value over time doesn't mean they would be getting a better value. $25,000 in Dash today could be more Dash than $100,000 9 months from now, so some people would rush to try to break it as early, as possible but for others $100,000 is more than $25,000 so they might not try to break it until after the reward increases in fiat terms even if this means they get less Dash.

An alternative is for the reward to be 100 Dash or $25/50/75/$100,000, whichever is greater (I assume the Dash value will be the greater value but this gives people a floor just in case the price dramatically drops).
 

ampp

Member
Feb 12, 2017
184
75
88
USA
One way to do this that would be like multisig is just submit different proposals each month to each holder. So no one person holds its all. But its probably better to just have someone be the escrow then to move it to a multisig address.
 

DashDude

Member
Jul 10, 2017
108
78
78
I'm working on an escrow solution with the goal of submitting for this budget cycle.

I originally had the contest reward in Dash because it makes things a bit simpler to administer and the prize pot would potentially grow as Dash appreciates. However, there was concern that the marketing would be more compelling with a USD prize and that the price of Dash might crater if a big vulnerability was discovered which would diminish the value of a prize denominated in Dash. The odds of this prize being claimed are so remote I think I'd just prefer to keep things simple with a USD denominated prize. It's very easy for everyone to understand and promote which is the main objective here.
 

solarguy

Active Member
Mar 15, 2017
873
430
133
61
I'm working on an escrow solution with the goal of submitting for this budget cycle.

I originally had the contest reward in Dash because it makes things a bit simpler to administer and the prize pot would potentially grow as Dash appreciates. However, there was concern that the marketing would be more compelling with a USD prize and that the price of Dash might crater if a big vulnerability was discovered which would diminish the value of a prize denominated in Dash. The odds of this prize being claimed are so remote I think I'd just prefer to keep things simple with a USD denominated prize. It's very easy for everyone to understand and promote which is the main objective here.
It's a bit late in the cycle, but I feel confident the MN community will vote overwhelmingly yes on this. Bring it...
Don't forget, if by some rare miracle somebody does break a specific PrivateSend transaction for this prize, they have to report it first to the Dev team and describe the methods they used to claim the prize. Then it's win/win/can't lose.
 

DashDude

Member
Jul 10, 2017
108
78
78
OK - one more update before I submit this.

  • Escrow - @coingun has formed a Canadian company Green Candle, Inc. to handle escrows for Dash treasury payments. I've added this to the proposal. There is a 10 Dash escrow fee which I took out of my end on the project management side. The escrow fee covers things like procurement of clean storage devices and safe deposit box rental.
  • Extended the core technical consultation period from 7 days to 14 just in case people are busy/traveling.
  • Added language to authorize creation and my use of [email protected] email and creation of a contest landing page on dash.org. I will create the content for the landing page. @tungfa are you admin? Is this a problem?
Thanks for everyone's patience - there have been a lot of small details to sort on this proposal!
 

tungfa

Grizzled Member
Foundation Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Apr 9, 2014
8,899
6,744
1,283
OK - one more update before I submit this.

  • Escrow - @coingun has formed a Canadian company Green Candle, Inc. to handle escrows for Dash treasury payments. I've added this to the proposal. There is a 10 Dash escrow fee which I took out of my end on the project management side. The escrow fee covers things like procurement of clean storage devices and safe deposit box rental.
  • Extended the core technical consultation period from 7 days to 14 just in case people are busy/traveling.
  • Added language to authorize creation and my use of [email protected] email and creation of a contest landing page on dash.org. I will create the content for the landing page. @tungfa are you admin? Is this a problem?
Thanks for everyone's patience - there have been a lot of small details to sort on this proposal!
hey there
let me look into this
 

DashDude

Member
Jul 10, 2017
108
78
78
Hi Everyone, this proposal is still a few votes short with 5 days left to vote in the cycle. Please show your support with a yes vote if you haven't done so already. Thanks!
 
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Voluntary

Member
May 14, 2016
109
37
78
Dash Address
XivwUmSu5davqhqc3BX1j4w6dskzNFihQQ
I'm disappointed this proposal was rejected and I'm of the opinion that those who voted no need to work on their reading comprehension skills.
 

Leonidas

Active Member
Oct 22, 2016
395
142
113
I agree, disappointed too. Some comments on @DashDude being a recent member had some coherence though. That could definitely have had an impact. I guess the best thing would be for DashDude to team up with another well known member to make a new proposal.

Although, it sill could not pass for other reasons. Reasons that I would fail to understand. And that should be of worry, it could means that MNs just don't believe PrivateSend is secure...
 

ampp

Member
Feb 12, 2017
184
75
88
USA
Same here. I think it just needs to get simplified. Just have the escrow hold everything, then do a management fee and a few advisers to approve the payout. Green candle can follow the rules of the reward payout as laid out in the proposal.