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Pre-Proposal - Dash Governance by Community

Discussion in 'Pre + Budget Proposal Discussions' started by yidakee, Jun 1, 2016.

  1. yidakee

    yidakee Well-known Member
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    Dash Governance by Community - DGbC

    The idea sparked into my mind the other day, following some forum discussions and some official Slack discussions.

    I personally hate seeing funds go to waste each month, in a sense that they’re there, ready and available, yet don’t get used because all the proposals don’t add up to the exact available amount.

    Some out-voted proposals exceed the available total, or others get down-voted, so they’re not funded. This leaves a gap each month where funds are not produced, nor burned. In essence, they’re useless.

    My idea would be a month-to-month proposal that attempts to “fish” these remaining funds and allocate them to further the development of Dash. They would be held and managed by the community.

    The workflow would mimic that of DGbB. Anyone in the community can propose a project, and put it up to vote.

    If the vote is passed, the requested funds are sent, and the project monitored by the community.
    It would necessarily need to be a month by month only thing, as the amount is completely unpredictable.

    If the vote(s) do not pass or there are funds left overs, these roll over to the next month.

    Don’t want to get too ahead of myself, this is not a formal presentation, but a feeler pre-proposal/discussion thread.

    How do you feel about this so far? Ask me hard questions.

    Brainstorm Addendum:

    - If this were to to happen and fail, the 'fished' funds can be either burnt, donated to the Foudation, or any other end, voted on formally by Masternode from a formal proposal to the DGbB.
    - Funds held in a multisig address by veteran team&community members
    - no project can exceed 33% of total fund, and after 3 funding rounds all remaining funds are liquidated or burnt to prevent fund build-up / greed down-vote / risk exposure.


    .
     
    #1 yidakee, Jun 1, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2016
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  2. TheDashGuy

    TheDashGuy Well-known Member

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    IS THIS WHAT YOU THINK THE DGBB IS FOR?

    ;]
     
  3. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
    I agree with that, and I wonder why this is still not implemented.
    I though it was obvious that leftover budget funds should roll to the next month, and I am surprised when I discovered that this is not happening.

    Where are they, those funds? how many are they? Can you point to a link, can you show those leftover funds to us?
     
    #3 demo, Jun 1, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2016
  4. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member
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    Who would administer these gap funds?
     
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  5. TheDashGuy

    TheDashGuy Well-known Member

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    The DGBB I would hope.... power and/or privileges like these usually equates to corruption.
     
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  6. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member
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    In the current framework though it couldn't be the DGBB, it would have to be whoever controls the payout address. Unless we're talking about changing the protocol itself to allow for rollover
     
  7. yidakee

    yidakee Well-known Member
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    This is cross posting from your other thread. You've still not understood how GGbB works, so I kindly ask you to let those who do understand how Dash's governance models work to debate.
    There are no leftover funds to point to. There are monthly un-allocated funds however.

    This would not be at a protocol level. I'm talking about submitting a proposal each month, near the end of the vote cycle, to try and 'grab' the leftover funds so that we can allocate them to something useful. IMHO it would be great to implement this at a protocol level no doubt. Right now it would have to be a month-by-month thing.

    .
     
  8. TheDashGuy

    TheDashGuy Well-known Member

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    How do you expect to manage/ let someone manage that budget proposal?
     
  9. yidakee

    yidakee Well-known Member
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    2 of 3, or 3 of 5 multisig address by veteran team members&community members

    Or do you mean a project?
     
  10. TheDashGuy

    TheDashGuy Well-known Member

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    First answer was fine.

    I'm fine with that, as long as we get a way to ensure it doesn't *accidentally* turn into a priority.

    Wouldn't it create some weird incentive not to approve certain budgetary items in an effort to "save" the Dash for the next "possibly" cool project?
     
  11. yidakee

    yidakee Well-known Member
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    I guess. That really depends on the voting mechanism. I have a few ideas about it, but still need to think harder on this. The whole idea behind this is to get people involved with Dash a little more, spark the creative juice, maybe even a little VC funding to later propose something to the DGbB itself?

    Anyway, we could think of a mechanism to prevent that, like for example, no project can exceed 33% of total fund, and after 3 funding rounds all remaining funds are liquidated or burnt ? I-ll put this in the OP for now. but welcome more ideas on it.
     
  12. TheDashGuy

    TheDashGuy Well-known Member

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    I like the idea as a whole, just needs a little preparation before application.
     
  13. yidakee

    yidakee Well-known Member
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    Absolutely agree. That is the whole point of this thread. Either make something rock-solid to propose, or drop the idea entirely. I'll be updating the OP accordingly.
     
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  14. TheDashGuy

    TheDashGuy Well-known Member

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    You didn't catch my funny!

    -1 Troll point /u/Yidakee

    Also, maybe we can vote on the ways to use this as a "micro dgbb"? :D

    For buying smaller things like single contractors for cheap work or w/e? (Thats an example...)
     
  15. yidakee

    yidakee Well-known Member
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    i don't quite follow, mind expanding? The idea really is a 'micro DGbB' though.

    .
     
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  16. TheDashGuy

    TheDashGuy Well-known Member

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    Whole - Preparation - Application....

    Anyways, my point was like say we wanted to hire someone or purchase something relatively cheap/unimportant that the entire Dash community doesn't need to vote on, for example a software to organize everyone or something like that.

    Like what if we wanted to throw $100 at some specific website for a small ad campaign, it could come fro this, no?

    Again, just examples.
     
  17. yidakee

    yidakee Well-known Member
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    Precisely. Use Fiver.com to create material, buy a domain and wordpress theme for a project, organize or sponsor a small event or initiative, fund a dev for some sort of development one might imagine but has no skills... Imagination is the only limit.
     
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  18. TheDashGuy

    TheDashGuy Well-known Member

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    Just to be a dick, we (certain people) have suggested this idea a few times, but hey atleast its catching on! :D
     
  19. yidakee

    yidakee Well-known Member
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    Some people talk, other people do. It came to my attention Evan proposed this himself a while back, but nobody stepped up. Totally missed it or I would have proposed this before. It shouldn't be too difficult.

    What could be difficult is to keep this civil and professional so we can attract people to this initiative, create something formal and gain Masternode approval. If we collectively work to get this up and running in a nice and smooth way, only good things can come out of it.

    .
     
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  20. TheDashGuy

    TheDashGuy Well-known Member

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    Not all of us have the "ability" or "privileges" to simply DO like you sadly :p

    Good initiative though! Let's see where it goes!
     
  21. Vedran Yoweri

    Vedran Yoweri Active Member

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    Sorry yidakee, don't like this idea.

    There's already a voting system, masternode owners should guard against bad or harmful ideas or projects. Throwing coins around adds no value, it devalues it.
    Are you sure you are not hacked? :)
     
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  22. TheDashGuy

    TheDashGuy Well-known Member

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    I know right... he is being sorta nice this week... and he referred to us as a "community" last week!

    Someone check his IP...
     
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  23. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member
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    I like the idea in theory, it's just that the governance of how the coins are used is the crucial part. If the fund manager(s) can propose/demonstrate that the funds are/will be used productively and fairly and transparently then I'm all for it. Just, make sure to establish a system that is well defined on how the coins are allowed to be used.
     
  24. fible1

    fible1 Well-known Member
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    I don't like the idea either tbh. Just nominating people to hold excess funds does not seem like the best way to manage this. Even if we could do it at the protocol level you still need fund admins and you are asking for trouble when the funds each trusted party holds begin to balloon. Also, the "lost" coins serve a function by reducing just a little bit of supply and favoring those who participate in the ecosystem.

    Pablo.
     
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  25. yidakee

    yidakee Well-known Member
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    I perfectly understand the argument Pablo. But the non issuance of these funds is far far below, for example, than reward halving in terms of market liquidity. I argue that the effect of these non-issued coins diluted in time would be by far less beneficial at this stage, than to put them to good use for the benefit of Dash's ecosystem as a whole, and promote it's general awareness.

    Also keep in mind, that by not being a contract or at a protocol level, but being month-to-month, anything that is not perfectly justified and accounting tightly done, would just be stopped. Funds would be managed by an admin, for example me or someone else who steps up, but the actual funds would be kept in a multi-sig address for extra security.

    This proposal is actually a bit 'safer' than the next step in DGbB, as Managers will hold funds themselves, and as far as I know not in multi-sig, but in a direct contracor-contractee relationship. This iniciative also has the added benefit to be able to fund much smaller scale entrepeneurship, potentially bringing more developers too.

    For example: Bounty to fix a problem. Fund a feature. App contest

    My main reasoning behind this is two fold. First, not let these precious funds get away at this so early stage of our project, given the fierce competition we're facing out there. Also to empower the broader community itself to attract a new user base, possibly also discovering new talents out there. The entry point to being a Masternode has become quite high and may deter people from participating. This could be used to attract second-adopters and talent out there.

    .
     
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  26. yidakee

    yidakee Well-known Member
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    Not throwing coins around at all, only funding project with merits. Not hacked no :) Just and idea that sparked due to some discussion, and apparently Evan himself proposed this a while back
     
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  27. yidakee

    yidakee Well-known Member
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    Again, in this model there would be no managers. The community would manage it. The funds would be help in multi-sig address for safety. If the community votes 'yes', that projects would get funded. The projects would propose something with a deadline or achievement stage. Then it's up to the person getting those funds to produce results.

    I'll refer in USD 'cos it's simpler to perceive the quantities.
    Lets imagine someone with 3D skills ask 350 USD to produce a 3min animation video explaining the DGbB. He could present a storyboard, a timeline to deliver, and expenses (price per hour/work) and a little extra to pay for sound effects, voice over talent and audio work. He proposes get 50 to get started, 50 upon delivering an animation sketch, 50 after a few high quality renders, 100 for voice over, 100 after delivery. The community approves. After each successful stage he gets payed.

    Dash gets a cool animation dirty cheap, developer gets a cool remuneration for it. Talent is discovered and Dash gain new multimedia work. All at the cost of no-one, except non minted coin.

    If the developer fails to produce obvious workload, the community would automatically not want to fund him any longer, and at worse walk away with 50 bucks, loose all rep, and basically loose all credibility.

    .
     
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  28. Vedran Yoweri

    Vedran Yoweri Active Member

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    But why not use the existing budget system for these ideas?
    Why should there be a separate system for it? Why should, possibly non dash holders, decide what these precious dash should be used for?
     
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  29. TheDashGuy

    TheDashGuy Well-known Member

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    Hell we could even just vote to make the news by "donating magic internet money mined from a Blockchain" directly to a charity of choice if we ran out of things to "fund" lol
     
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  30. TheDashGuy

    TheDashGuy Well-known Member

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    These items will be tiny items that most MN's could care less about nor needs a voting hand in EVERYTHING that goes down. Do they really care to vote on each of said artists sketches? Can't we just do a forum thread for this type of stuff?
     

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