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Open Bazaar integration - pre-proposal

Discussion in 'Pre + Budget Proposal Discussions' started by akhavr, Apr 28, 2016.

  1. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member

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    Pulled out of here https://dashtalk.org/threads/open-bazaar-integration.2045/page-14#post-92128

    1. Display prices in DASH
    2. Pay in DASH
    3. Handle moderated payments and refunds

    Total budget is $4050, payable in DASH and we can fix the price in DASH (~636 at the moment of this post)

    1st stage - $1700
    2nd stage - $800
    3rd stage - $1550

    4th stage that will create an option for a direct DASH payments on the OB network is out of the scope of the proposal.

    All development will be handled in a 42 Coffee Cups github repository somewhere at http://github.com/42cc/ and will be available for public comment and bashing :)

    During development we will try to keep up with the current OB master and will update our changes accordingly.

    We will ask for the payment only when the feature is completed and ready for testing. Of course, we can't promise acceptance of our changes to the original OB code.

    This approach will allow to add any coin to the OpenBazaar code, as long as it's exchangeable to BTC and from BTC by any automated service like shapeshift.

    I'm creating this thread to collect opinions and critic before I'll submit an official proposal.
     
    #1 akhavr, Apr 28, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 28, 2016
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  2. alex-ru

    alex-ru Grizzled Member
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    "DASH+BTC fork" sounds more interesting than "DASH-only fork" IMO :)
     
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  3. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member

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    Err... Yeah.. My point was that the later stage would enable direct payments in DASH, not involving conversions to and from BTC. Will change wording..
     
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  4. daf

    daf Active Member

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    Slightly off topic: how active is OpenBazaar since it left its beta stage? How many sales, etc.?
     
  5. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member

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  6. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member

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  7. daf

    daf Active Member

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  8. kot

    kot Administrator
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    Thanks a lot akhavr . I have some contacts with OB team. I will try to attract them with this idea and ask if they are interested in integration to their "official" release (I guess it should be extremely attractive, considering that we are developing the solution and funding the work).

    If you don't mind, please hold on with the proposal submission until they will share the response.
    I will be more than happy to help you with the administrative stuff if necessary.
     
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  9. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member

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    This is nice, but it kind of puts DASH in the position of bearing the entire cost while other coins will reap equal benefits. Is there something OpenBazaar can offer to us (like special exposure/promotion) to incentivize us to deliver this general solution to integrate other non-BTC coins with their service?
     
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  10. ashmoran

    ashmoran Member

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    I am still willing to work on this, but unfortunately I have been tied up doing an agonisingly complicated tax return in a country I have never lived in before >< Poland has 3 Bitcoin exchanges but I genuinely have no idea how they function.

    After that I am in the UK for a week … talking about Dash!

    After that I will come back and:
    1. Recover
    2. Learn Python
    3. Spend my free time working on OB-Dash integration
    4. Move to Prague
    Pls queue up unreasonable requests here
     
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  11. yidakee

    yidakee Well-known Member
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    I had a few exchanges with them about a year ago. I was pushing for Dash/OB integration for a long time ;)

    At the time they were very very open to it. The only problem is (like us) they had a small team of volunteer withe zero funding, and the way the OB code is build, it's a very tight integration. They did say they'd be more than happy to merge if this "porting" to Dash ever occurred. But that they simply did not have the manpower for it as it would be a monumental ordeal.

    Dash is a great feature for OB because of our anonymity.

    To the OP, I would suggest holding back on the proposal too. We're 2 cycles away from v12.1 budgets are running thin.

    I have a few questions - I don't understand how nº2 differs from nº4. If you can display in Dash, and pay direct - if I understand correcly - bypassing the OB network, how are disputes handled ?

    How fast could you produce some results?
    Can you develop this and NOT open the doors to other coins? I'm all in for a healthy crypto-environment, but if Dash is funding this, I'd like to see only Dash benefit from this.

    I'm loving that we finally have OB development starting here! Best of luck

    .
     
    #11 yidakee, Apr 30, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 30, 2016
  12. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member

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    I'm not in a rush :)

    In steps 1-2-3 all payments are done on the bitcoin network. At stage 4 payments between dash users and dash sellers would bypass the bitcoin network and pay directly in dash. Disputes would be handled exactly as on the bitcoin network. I'm sure we can do it, but we didn't dive too deep there.

    I expect 1 month per stage. Could be done faster, but better not :)

    I doubt it's possible, since proposed stages aren't tied directly to the dash blockchain: all is in the UI, OB code, and 3rd party exchange services like https://shapeshift.io/
     
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  13. yidakee

    yidakee Well-known Member
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    This is what I'm not getting, maybe I'm just being slow?

    In OB, funds are sent to a 2-of-3 multi-sig address. If buyer/seller disagree, moderators get involved to habndle the dispute. In the listing we could invite people to pay with Dash using shapeshift to send BTC to the multi-sig merchant address.

    Stage 4 I wouldn't blink to scream yes! I'm just not fully understanding 1,2 and 3.

    Sorry if I'm being a ding-dong here, care to explain it little further?

    .
     
  14. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member

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    Before stage (4) would fly (not technically, but be really useful), we have to have enough dash buyers and dash sellers on the OB network. Right now there's no way to achieve this.

    So, to get to this point, we're planning to do 3 preliminary stages:

    1. Let DASH as a user-selected currency in to the OB client.
    2. Pay in DASH when seller and buyer agree on non-moderated purchase.
    3. Handle moderated payments and refunds correctly.

    BTW, I've forgot when (and if) we'll have a dash seller in the process, so I'll talk with the team and may update the proposal.

    At the end of this, we would have dash buyers and dash sellers on the OB network, trading goods with each other with an added cost of DASH->BTC->DASH conversion. Only at this point we would be able to transfer to pure DASH->DASH network and users won't notice it much, since it would feel just like an "optimization" for them.

    Did I answer your questions?

    Feel free to ask: I've created the thread with the intent to gauge the interest and put a light on weak spots in the proposal.

    Upd. We've missed the seller part, because were focused on a client side. Will update the proposal or push this to the 4th stage.
     
    #14 akhavr, May 1, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2016
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  15. methusaleh

    methusaleh Member

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    I think this a good point, so let me add a stupid question- how doable would it be to code any solution so altcoins have to go via dash (automatically using shapeshift or whatever) to use this solution? So for example LTC->Dash->btc if they want to piggyback on our code. I'm not a coder so like I say this may be daft but would provide increased dash tx and keep the altcoiners happy-ish. Looking forward to hearing why this won't work
     
  16. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member

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    This could be implemented within this proposal, but since code is open source, this could be easily modified by any developer.

    Besides, we would have to know the list of supported altcoins and this likely will increase a budget for the proposal
     
  17. yidakee

    yidakee Well-known Member
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    1 - got it
    2 - got it - though this can be done moderated outside the OB network. This is essencial, otherwise all hell will break loose.
    3 - To handle moderated payments and refunds correctly, you need 2 of 3 multi-sig processing built into OB, which is precisely what is described in stage 4

    Still trying to figure this out.

    .
     
  18. methusaleh

    methusaleh Member

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    Yes I thought the open source aspect made it tough to make exclusively Dash without giving every alt out there a free lunch. Oh well
     
  19. ashmoran

    ashmoran Member

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    I would like to suggest a "quality" that any solution should have: it should signal to the seller that the buyer wants to pay in Dash. Anything that goes through a third party and hits the existing Bitcoin code with a Bitcoin payment is destroying the signal that the buyer was holding Dash.

    My interest in getting involved in OpenBazaar-Dash integration came from two sides:
    • OB could start a revolution in trade, but could be crippled if the Bitcoin network capacity is remains constrained, i.e. OB transaction fees depend on decisions being made by Bitcoin Core
    • I believe Dash is a superior currency to Bitcoin but needs a compelling place to spend it if it is to be useful as cash, and this is most high profile trade system where I feel I can make a contribution
    So, to my mind, it is at least as important that the solution conveys the signal "people want to spend Dash" to merchants as it is to let buyers spend it. In the case of a fee event in Bitcoin, merchants may then think think: "Bitcoin isn't working like it used to, but instead of switching to the Lightning Network, I'll switch to Dash instead. I've seen that (potential) customers value it as a form of money, so I will use that instead".

    (The converse case of signalling to buyers that sellers want Dash else exists, but I imagine there are more Dash holders wanting to spend Dash on OpenBazaar, than OpenBazaar merchants who currently want to receive Dash.)

    Any thoughts on how this idea fits in?
     
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  20. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member

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    At this point we will still require buyer to have a BTC account, so we would be able to reuse BTC multisig in the OB.
     
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  21. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member

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    Hmm... Will discuss this with my team.
     
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  22. yidakee

    yidakee Well-known Member
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    But that doesn't answer my question though. How is your solution different from me doing, for example,

    - Setup an item for sale (and for example offer a 25% discount if payed in X amount of Dash instead of BTC as incentive)
    - Get payed in Dash
    - Safety for both buyer and seller.

    As opposed to

    - Setup an item
    - Invite people to use their Dash though Shapeshift to pay in BTC to the OB address... ?

    .
     
  23. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member

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    Ok, now I'm lost.

    The case above isn't yet possible within an OB, because it can't observe Dash network. This will be implemented as a next stage.

    Stages 1-3 are exactly about this, being integrated into the OB client.

    If that doesn't answer your question, may you rephrase it in more details, giving an example? It's pretty late here and my brains are somewhat fried :)
     
  24. yidakee

    yidakee Well-known Member
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    Yes! That's what I mean, I'm seriously not getting this proposal ... again, sorry if I'm being a ding-dong, but I don't see what development funds are needed for 1-3.

    4 is an entirely different matter and a HUGE project.

    .
     
  25. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member

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    As I've mentioned here, before forking OB network to Dash, it's important to give an option to buyers to pay in Dash and sellers to receive in Dash (will add a stage for this too).

    My tinkering with early OB code drove me to a conclusion that simply switching BTC to Dash would be comparably easy task. But what's the point, if most trades would be done in BTC? Buyers want a wide choice, sellers want lots of buyers. Balkanization of the OB network won't help either.

    Thus, the goal of first steps is make sure that dash holders can do one click purchases for all stuff, sold on the OpenBazaar. Only when this is done, we propose to change the back end and do dash-dash payments w/o touching bitcoin.

    Yes, this might be considered a fancy way to add a shifty button to the OpenBazaar client. If someone sees a simpler way to do such integration in a clean way - I'll be glad to learn.
     
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  26. kot

    kot Administrator
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    I still have no response from OB. I am going to follow-up later today
     
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  27. yidakee

    yidakee Well-known Member
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    @kot Which channel are you using? I suggest openbazaar.slack.com
     
  28. kot

    kot Administrator
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    I have dropped an email to Sam Patterson
     
  29. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member

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  30. yidakee

    yidakee Well-known Member
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    @akhavr - Why should Dash be financing the development of a plugin that will

    a) benefit other coins
    b) probably be developed by shapeshift themselves, or any other 3rd party.

    What I would very much like to see is a Dash integration into the code.