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Discussion in 'Internal Operations' started by bigrcanada, Apr 1, 2015.

  1. bigrcanada

    bigrcanada Well-known Member
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    Hi ....been thinking the last couple days on something that has always bugged me about crypto currencies in general...all of them. The ease or more like the lack of ease for consumers and merchants to get in and out of the crypto world. The reality for the situation is to start with ismost will trade to dollars in the beginning...we have to assume this. There needs to be alot less steps for people to acquire Dash and sell Dash
    .
    My thoughts are can we not build something on the Masternodes that would act as an "exchange" even better right In the wallet you could right there trade in and out of DASH, BTC and maybe couple of others as we progress.

    This is a major stumbling block for all of us...? Thoughts?
     
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  2. fernando

    fernando Powered by Dash
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    I agree that this the main pain point, but it is not an easy to solve problem. Crypto to crypto is easy, but crypto to fiat is tough because you need to interact with legacy systems that are fragmented and over regulated... Big companies like Coinbase help because they integrate tightly with banks. They do that by renouncing to some core crypto values, like keeping control of the private key, but I think they are a good way to slowly move people into crypto.

    The only thing I have in mind that could alleviate this huge problem is reducing the need to go out of crypto. Right now most merchants convert automatically to fiat, but if we were able to foster B2B commerce, maybe some of them would dare to keep some of the crypto they get (there is still the volatility problem...). I really hope that we see more and more businesses accepting only crypto. The consulting firm that Andreas Antonopoulos launched yesterday (thirdkey.solutions) does just that. They price in USD, but they say that they only accept BTC, so the USD price will be converted to BTC at the time of payment. Kudos to them!
     
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  3. bigrcanada

    bigrcanada Well-known Member
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    My thoughts are that the sooner we I brace the reality that at least 80% of businesses are going to convert out of DASH back to cash ;), couldn't resist, the sooner we can start see real world adoption.

    Businesses are going to need to pay taxes, utilities, wages and inventory with cash. We are at least 10+ years from creating any measurable crypto Eco system that doesn't need to rely on fiat. My saying in business, Never forsake the real for the ideal!

    With this in mind the other reality is that for now Dash will need to be converted to BTC, in the absence of being able to convert to fiat. BTC for the foreseeable future will the the gate way currency to and from fiat. That is a reality. With this in mind... Having the ability to convert to BTC right in the wallet would be brilliant. So looking at the adoption flow... Customer buys BTC at local atm or online portal and immediately put in their DASH wallet...from here a simple google clicks and now the consumer has a choice Converting to DASH

    For a test can someone do a realistic flow chart in what steps are required for either a consumer to go from fiat to DASH and also one for merchants. Thiss would be a great starting point.

    Thanks!
     
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  4. bhkien

    bhkien Active Member
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    I think we need more developers to make it more convenient to users.

    Currently, I have a forum with few hundred thousand users and I need some ways to let our users using Dash for buying and tipping each other without needed to install wallet on their computers.

    I am thinking about an encrypted web wallet that can be integrated with Xenforo to let users send Dash and tip by Dash with nickname and Dash address.

    I think all forum owners have incentive to install this kind of software with their forums because they need their users more actively contribute contents.

    If we have this open source, I think a lot of forums using it and many people know about Dash.
     
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  5. fernando

    fernando Powered by Dash
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    I think that what you suggest (converting BTC to DASH inside the wallet) is relatively easy for someone who is not me :) Many exchanges have APIs that would allow to do this, but some coding would be needed to implement it.
     
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  6. TaoOfSatoshi

    TaoOfSatoshi Grizzled Member
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    Decentralized exchanges, once activated, will not need to follow regulations, and will be completely trustless. They will create an easy gateway for fiat-crypto.

    When these are a reality, the crypto revolution can begin in ernest.

    Patience my friends.
     
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  7. fernando

    fernando Powered by Dash
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    Sounds good, but I don't know of anything that you could use. The closest thing I can think of is Sendchat, but that only integrates on top of Telegram. They announced that they accepted DRK some time ago, but I can't find it now:
    http://sendchat.org/
     
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  8. Dunedoo

    Dunedoo Well-known Member
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  9. bigrcanada

    bigrcanada Well-known Member
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    We need to build the ability to exchange and transact all within the wallet interface. I hear time and time again that its too confusing, its too complicated, its too difficult. There are too many steps into gettting to buy and use DASH and any other currency.

    steps right now are:

    find a BTC/Fiat exchange....ummm try explaining that to people and how that is simpler to use then their debit card.

    Then...
    transfer BTC to an exchange that might carry DASH...so now they have to be their own currency traders?!? hummmmm ask your grandparents if they are still with you at this point in the conversation.

    Oh yeah and now you have to download a "wallet" ....ha? yup I can see peoples eyes rolling to the back of their head ....going ...."whats happening to me".

    then....transfer these magically traded BTC for DASH....which by the, trading the currency is soooooo easy for non nerds...NOT

    ......anyway I could go on for a several more steps.

    This is NOT acceptable. Period.

    AT some point...we need to transfer some dev "hash" power to seeing if we can use the masternodes for some real world uses....maybe hosting a built in exchange and simplification .

    Because all I know....is everyone that is non computer nerd ...is like what are you talking about and what are you on.

    Please do a test, go to a group of peep and explain the process of using DASH!
    This is the next frontier for crypto...this is where the battle will be won or lost....can we make it simple for everyday dummies? The currency that can do this...wins, and I hope its DASH!
     
    #9 bigrcanada, Apr 2, 2015
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  10. darkred

    darkred Active Member

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    I've been thinking long and hard about your challenges, BigRCanuk. Would you be willing to accept FIAT for DASH? (in your case Canadian dollars for DASH)
     
  11. darkred

    darkred Active Member

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    If you are willing to do FIAT exchange, this is the best way I could come up with:

    FIAT/DASH Merchant Exchange (using InstantX and holytransaction.com)

    Bob (the buyer) has $20. Bob does not currently have a DASH wallet.
    Sally (the seller) has plenty of DASH in her wallet. (> 4)
    Bob wants $20 of DASH.
    The market price for DASH is $5.05 per DASH, based on https://www.cryptsy.com/markets/view/DASH_USD .
    Bob and Sally agree that Sally will transfer 3.96039604 DASH for $20, based on the market price.

    Note: The numbers are made up and the points don't matter, just like "Who's Line".

    1. Bob visits https://holytransaction.com, creates an account from his mobile phone.
    2. Bob clicks on the Dash wallet, showing the QR code.
    3. Sally scans the QR code and enters 3.96039604 Dash
    and selects the "instantx" option
    4. Bob's wallet should show an incoming transaction within a few seconds.
    (Not sure how quickly it will actually show up.)
    5. Once 1 confirmation has been made (about 1-2 minutes), Bob should be able to spend his DASH.

    Alternatives to a straight "FIAT exchange":
    - treat DASH like a gift card or gift certificate - come up with some paperwallet process.
    - treat DASH like a "rewards" program (For every $100 of wine, and get 1 DASH.)
    - provide "change" in DASH
    - provide raffle/contest for rewards in DASH
     
  12. alex-ru

    alex-ru Grizzled Member
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    One more option: integrate trustless encrypted chat (based on MasterNode network) into the wallet (chat-oriented "light" version of DASH Wallet).

    With 95% of it's chatting functions (short text messages) for free. So millions of people interested in privacy will download it as just "decentralised chat client", not crypto wallet.
    Some of them (with permanent Ads of DASH in front of their faces) will be interested in sending not just "private messages", but "private cash" also. So they will find a way to exchanges to buy some Dashes somehow...

    The need in crypto chat for ordinary people exceeds by several orders "needs in Cryptocurrency". And it will be a great driver for Dash popularisation.
    It also may be a way of cooperation with existing messenger-programms developers.

    There are many disputes: who will be the King of the cryptocurrency world: Bitcoin, Dash, Cryptonotes, Zerocash...? But I feel the King may be... let say... facebook? WhatsApp? telegram.org?
    With messenger's huge user-base it is possible to promote quickly any new "affiliated" cryptocurrency...
     
    #12 alex-ru, Apr 2, 2015
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  13. Super8

    Super8 Active Member

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    This is very interesting. A 'Dashchat' ap on a smartphone. I can really see that. Great entry for ppl into the crypto world. No one will ever trust any messaging ap from the likes of Facebook. I mean, I even use use Facebook messenger but I hate the lack of privacy.

    You could be right, selling ppl on the benefits of private messaging and giving them the option to transact small amounts of currency could be a killer application. I wonder if it would be possible for any such ap to be preloaded with a couple of Duffs (like a faucet) so that ppl could immediately send a tip to their friends or whatever. They would then seek out ways to obtain more currency. There could be a menu setting on the ap with a link to help them do this.

    I'm no developer, but if I was, this it what I'd be thinking about and working on!
     
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  14. Super8

    Super8 Active Member

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  15. Dunedoo

    Dunedoo Well-known Member
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    what a partnership, shapeshift in a dash wallet
     
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  16. fernando

    fernando Powered by Dash
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    One way that is much easier is the direct purchase methods. The problem of those is that are regional specific because they integrate with banking system, but we have already a few:
    https://www.dashpay.io/using-darkcoin/buy-darkcoin/direct-purchase/

    They are far from ideal, but getting into a website, introducing your address and paying with credit card or paypal is much easier than the exchange route. If we paired that with a secure online or mobile wallet, we would be nearing something usable for most people.
     
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  17. alex-ru

    alex-ru Grizzled Member
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    In addition:

    "Wiper thinks messaging apps could be the key to bitcoin payments"
    Wiper, an ephemeral messaging app that launched in 2014, has a reputation as a Snapchat clone, but it’s actually closer to Line, which uses over-the-top messaging as a platform to sell stickers, games, and other entertainment and services. Taking a kitchen-sink approach to messaging apps, Wiper doesn’t just provide messages you can delete with a push of a button, but also includes free calling, YouTube music playlists, and now, payments powered by the bitcoin protocol.

    Payments and messaging are a natural fit. In China, you can add a bank account to a WeChat account. More recently, in the United States, Snapchat introduced Snapcash with Square. But Wiper is eschewing partnerships with financial companies and using the bitcoin protocol instead for transferring money from person to person.

    Wiper is positioning this feature as a way for people from other countries to send money home. Those payments are called remittances. From Wiper’s blog post:

    This promises huge savings for immigrants sending money home and access to tools for the 2.5 billion adults who do not have bank accounts. It will also allow for microtransactions that were previously cost prohibitive, like tipping for media you like.

    “If bitcoin is complicated for people who are tech-savvy and used to smartphones, imagine what it’s like for the first-time smartphone buyer,” Wiper CEO Manlio Carrelli said. “But the first-time smartphone buyer is used to the messaging interface.”

    Wiper’s bitcoin implementation is fairly elegant. At the bottom of the app, there’s a tab for Bitcoin transactions. Instead of using a person’s inscrutable bitcoin address wallet, you can send bitcoins or fractions of bitcoins to Wiper usernames as part of a chat or through a separate transaction. Wiper lets you send Bitcoin to any wallet ID, even those without an associated Wiper account.
    ...
    There’s also the issue that bitcoin transactions — even sending the equivalent of $1 to a friend — are permanently and publicly recorded on the blockchain, which seems to be at odds with Wiper’s flagship feature, which is that it can delete all your messages with the push of a button. Your texts might be gone, but your bitcoin transactions will be accessible forever. However, Wiper will delete your transaction history from the app, and since it uses a different wallet ID for each transaction, the hope is that it would be “exceptionally hard to reverse engineer how much bitcoin you have.”

    Please somebody tell them about Dash!

    ...

    full article: https://gigaom.com/2015/03/06/wiper-thinks-messaging-apps-could-be-the-key-to-bitcoin-payments/
     
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  18. Sub-Ether

    Sub-Ether Well-known Member

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    And possible exploding message history (like with exploding cookies) , you could set the message duration to 1 hr,1 day, 1 week or 1 month for example. And this would also cut down on spam.
     
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  19. will7am

    will7am New Member

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    It's a very good point. Trying to tell people they have to find an exchange that will allow them to buy BTC (after sending them proof of ID and address) in order to exchange for Dash on another exchange just isn't going to work in the long term.

    In the UK users can exchange GBP for Dash directly within 15mins or so via https://cryptomate.co.uk and https://bittylicious.com. Which is pretty cool, but as TaoOfSatoshi said, we need a decentralized way of buying and selling Dash.

    I'm working on that right now, and hopefully will have something to show in the next 6 months! Depending on funding etc :)
     
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  20. raganius

    raganius cryptoPag.com
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    Making it simple for users to buy/sell DASH with fiat is key, IMO. Those UK services you cited are great, and that's exactly what I have been working on to create here in Brazil.

    DASH do needs such easy-to-use buy/sell services everywhere, for those users who do not want to place ask/bid orders in Bitfinex/Cryptsy-like exchanges, in situations when they simply want to enter/leave DASH-fiat.

    Of course, a decentralised service is the perfect solution, but sometimes ( e.g. for small amounts) people do not need this level of security... for they are only looking for simplicity.

    Serious services, by recognised companies, doing this "DASH network service" (even if not decentralised) should receive all the support they need from our community. Consumer Rights will be protected by the already existing local regulations.
     
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  21. redstar0

    redstar0 New Member

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    I came up with a site that addresses those problems. I'm trying to find someone interested in supporting the project. It's a resource site that helps out new users, and has enough depth for hardcore. Above all else I think we need a coin grader. Something the average person can look at. Like a meta critic, but instead of user reviews, it's raw data crunched into a single letter grade, based on performance across growth, and other factors. It keeps the theme as casual friendly, with veteran features just below the surface. Let me know if you're interested in checking it out?

    Mock Site-
    www.sagemakaiser.com/coinsite.html
     
  22. Koromoto

    Koromoto Member

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    Two and a half years later and there is no solution in sight because people is still thinking about cryptos and cryptos are not the solution, they are the problem because of volatility. Pegged tokens are the solution. I hope somebody at least gives a try to this proposed solution.
     
  23. Crypto Rob

    Crypto Rob New Member

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    Unfortunately, Tether kinda went up in flames? Do we have more examples?
     
  24. Koromoto

    Koromoto Member

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    Not yet, still trading at $1 with a market cap of 815M, but that's not the point, the point is that pegged tokens are valuable but whatever, if nobody is interested then there is nothing I can do except my own research until I find the right tool and the right people, at the end it's a matter of synergy.
     
  25. AlejandroE

    AlejandroE New Member

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    This is the one og most important challenge if we want "common people" use and adopt DASH, I have been in many conferences about cryptos (BTC, DASH, ETH, LTC) and everybody is amazed and interested about these new financial system, but when the conferences finish they have a LOT of questions and FEW answers. This cause people get frustrated because they don´t know who can help them and finally they loss their interest and continue their life. Promotional teams around the worls (Africa, Venezuela, Mexico, etc) are doing such a great job waking up the interest of people but we need a backend support team in orden to HELP them answering question, solving techncical and particular problems.

    So we have 2 main challenges: 1- Create a easy to use platform for people to exchange DASH to fiat. 2- Help and support people in this new path

    Thoughts?
     
  26. redstar0

    redstar0 New Member

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    You could create a resource site, a hub where new and veteran crypto users can go to for information.
    (I'm working on the coin grader)
    Mock Site-
    www.sagemakaiser.com/coinsite.html
     
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