I sold all my Dash. Here is why and my view on the state of Dash

IOS Dev

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Two coin, three coin, ...

We will see dozens of Dash Evolution clones soon... We have seen all this before - with Bitcoin forks....
It's likely Evolution won't be out til' late 2017 or 2018. Do you expect clones before that? I think you're comparing what Dash will be to what other coins already have. Seems like you are a little in denial of where the competition is at.
 

Dworf

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... I was just trying to be generic with amount of different options are available. Read the shadowcash thread posted above for the hint on the coin that does have the key Dash features.
Got it - some of these coins have very interesting technologies - but all these coins have two things in common: 1. they have a market cap below 10000 BTC and 2. no infrastructure at all. They can be traded and exchanged to to other coins - that's it. Not comparable to DASH regarding their use case network. If you jump from one good coin to the next one every few months you will miss something out and other user will not do it.
 

Solarminer

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Ok, to be clear, here are the NON Dash clone projects that will have the API communication like Evolution that talks directly to nodes without needing the blockchain. (This is not electrum that requires external servers, bitcoin and other coins already have that). Any of these could get the top dog spot.

NEM - Already have masternodes and released alpha version API wallet as of 3 weeks ago. (Top 12 market cap)
VCASH - staking (soon voting) nodes, that will have already have instant locked transactions and mixing. API wallet is in Alpha prerelease - weeks away.

Although these are not API wallets, they have the same capability of instant with added ability to mix and combing transactions.
Zcash - Thunder Network (fast transactions) 6 months out
Bitcoin - 13.1 with segwit released, once activated will enable Lightning. Winter release possible for lightning.
 
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UdjinM6

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...
  • One coin has instant locked transaction in .4 seconds that are respendable in 1 minute. (far cry from 1 second and respendable in 15 minutes)
  • One coin has mixing that takes about 45 minutes. (far cry from the 2 days it takes Dash)
  • Other coins mix when they spend so no wait at all.
  • One coin has a dual address system so one address is always in a private/mixed network and the other is public. Sending private to private is always fungible and anonymous.
  • One coin has a variable block size
  • A few coins have a governance system and more will be adding it.
  • 2 coins have the magic API wallet system. One is already testing an API wallet.
  • One coin has a separate backed and lightweight frontend with all the user options.
  • Lightning and/or Thunder could actually work.
  • Many coins have wallets with built in market places, coin loaning options, exchanges inside wallet, 2nd layer assets,
...
- depends on size of network and blockchain confirmation count, we could do 1 conf spendable IX - does it really better?
- interactive mixing time depends on number of online participants and denom they have, will be improved in 12.1 however with multisession mixing
- yep, non-interactive mixing via crypto tricks is nice in terms of usage but utxo is bloated and doesn't scale
- yep, but initial setup is hard to do trustless and I would never trust such setup 100%
- that's not a problem at all when your cap is way above you usage, you don't use "unused space" (i.e. we don't produce blocks 1 mb each because the limit is 1 mb)
- good for them
- what's magic api? the one kind of dapi I know of is actually centralized even though they claim the opposite.
- it's the question of wallet implementation, not a network specific thing, just use Electrum-Dash.
- yep, that would work for Dash too, there are however still way too many questions about payment channel routing and synchronizing
- it's the question of wallet implementation, not a network specific thing, you can replicate the same but why? Does anyone really use it?

...
There are a lot of good technologies out there. One coin in particular has many of these features and is not wasting time talking about how to spend budget money on advertising. lawyers, or conferences. They are just writing code and give solid weekly updates.
...
I actually partially agree with that one - we should deliver updates more often. Changes in 12.1 were not so radical originally and it could be delivered in spring/summer 2016 with old budgeting system and tons of fixes but... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ The hope is that with a proper foundations for evo layed out in 12.1 we can then deliver updates at a faster rate.

...
I think the feedback loop with masternodes will not look like a drop in masternodes. There are are more and more coins put into Dash every day from block rewards. So the number of masternodes will keep growing. The problem is that the value of masternodes will fall. Once enough of a drop happens, the budgets will get smaller, and that further causes a collapse. It could be saved, but the mistakes I have seen make a drop likely.
That could be true but I don't really think it is - masternodes are long term investments in general imo and for such things short term fluctuations is not a big deal, it's long term roi which matters. Speaking of budgets, the bigger the budget the higher the potential but even now there are not enough valuable proposals and we had like 800+ DASH "burned" in latest budget iirc.
 

ec1warc1

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my two cents... if you are an investor, Dash is in a great position right now as a buy. Why?
  1. Price is relatively stable, does't go up or down much, and it seems to be at a solid floor at about $9
  2. Dash has a large team of developers working on improvements with announcements of what will be released and when, features which will likely drive the price up.
  3. Dash holds public quarterly meetings, you can get to know who is working on Dash and what they are up to
  4. Dash is the only digital currency supported by two tiers, miners and masternodes
  5. Instant send - the only digital currency ready for "Point of Sale" purchases
There are more reasons, but those are solid ones.
 

AndyDark

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what pointless thread / content. someone sold all there Dash...then is here talking about it..other people like other coins better...but strangely are here talking about it...brand new accounts... haven't we got better things to be doing, Dashers? :)
 
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GrandMasterDash

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The single biggest problem with all these coins, including dash, is that none of them are brave enough to apply the core principles of a blockchain to the coin itself... which ironic, to say the least. I'm particularly thinking of voting and supply chains. Yes, the blockchain could revolutionise voting and supply chains - which are external functions - but how about those core principles to development? Right now, dash core go about their secretive wheeling and dealing and then justify everything by saying it's normal business practise... yeah right, so much for transparency of supply chains.

What we need is a coin that is brave enough to lock down the source and binaries, implementing voting and supply chains such that they would have to ask us users / MNOs to make changes... haha, can you imagine that happening?? - ya see how it is... "crypto is getting rid of the FED / central bankers but please don't take our geek powers away!!!" .... hypocrites, all of them.

And as previously said, coins like NEM are implementing supernodes and a lot of other unique features. Synereo is applying formal verification to make their products bomb proof - way to go, all coins should do that! Yes, dash has some serious competition snapping at it's heels. I've been saying all this for ages and now suddenly people are waking up.
 

Solarminer

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What we need is a coin that is brave enough to lock down the source and binaries, implementing voting and supply chains such that they would have to ask us users / MNOs to make changes... haha, can you imagine that happening?? - ya see how it is... "crypto is getting rid of the FED / central bankers but please don't take our geek powers away!!!" .... hypocrites, all of them..
Tezos is a coin going to be based on voting on code changes. It might get a lot of hype, by realistically a few key developers need to be involved in deciding which code is used, not a majority vote of people with minimal coding experience.
 
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demo

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Tezos is a coin going to be based on voting on code changes. It might get a lot of hype, by realistically a few key developers need to be involved in deciding which code is used, not a majority vote of people with minimal coding experience.

The Tezos people are stupid when saying.

Tezos said:
Voting using tokens is unfair, it should be one person one vote.
Pragmatically, there aren’t any good ways to identify people as individuals on decentralized networks yet. From an economic standpoint, stake based voting encourages more rational behavior because the people with the greatest voice are also the ones with the most skin in the game.
Of course there is a way to identify people as individuals on decentralized networks. The cryptoparty assemblies.

And of course, this is a Déjà vu.
All the proponents of the stake based voting (Tezos and dashers included), they ignore history. This is how democracy starts. First they think that stake based voting is correct. First they think Timocracy is the correct regime. But then obvious problems appear in Timocracy (you can already observe here in dash the masternodes stupidity) and then Democracy (one person-one vote) arises.
 
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Solarminer

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what pointless thread / content. someone sold all there Dash...then is here talking about it..other people like other coins better...but strangely are here talking about it...brand new accounts... haven't we got better things to be doing, Dashers? :)
Take this as an opportunity to show how much is being done with Dash that the community doesn't see. Udjin did a great job of showing some differences. Your goal should be to learn what your competition is and how to do it better.

For you Andy, look at the Umbra Shadowcash wallet with chat, tor, i2p, and soon marketplace - it is a work of art. Look at the NXT wallet - so many features it will make your head spin. There is a lot going on. You can ignore the competition, or do better than them.
 
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demo

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The Tezos people are stupid when saying.
Of course there is a way to identify people as individuals on decentralized networks. The cryptoparty assemblies.
And of course, this is a Déjà vu.
All the proponents of the stake based voting (Tezos and dashers included), they ignore history. This is how democracy starts. First they think that stake based voting is correct. First they think Timocracy is the correct regime. But then obvious problems appear in Timocracy (you can already observe here in dash the masternodes stupidity) and then Democracy (one person-one vote) arises.
In The Republic, Plato describes five regimes (of which four are unjust). Timocracy is listed as the first "unjust" regime. Aristocracy degenerates into timocracy when, due to miscalculation on the part of its governed class, the next generation of guardians and auxiliaries includes persons of an inferior nature (the persons with souls made of iron or bronze, as opposed to the ideal guardians and auxiliaries, who have souls made of gold and silver). A timocracy, in choosing its leaders, is "inclining rather to the more high-spirited and simple-minded type, who are better suited for war".[2] The city-state of Sparta provided Plato with a real-world model for this form of government.
 

GrandMasterDash

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Tezos is a coin going to be based on voting on code changes. It might get a lot of hype, by realistically a few key developers need to be involved in deciding which code is used, not a majority vote of people with minimal coding experience.
Thanks for that, I didn't know about Tezos and it looks quite interesting, especially as they are also talking about formal verification. Definitely one to watch!
 

Solarminer

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Evan told me Evolution will have over 160 TV channels, a cool calculator and every new mc donalds flyer. 13.1 will have Pizza hut support, too.

This is just a mockup of the new design. And the Evo wallet will be 5% longer (will nice scrollbars) than the next shadowcash wallet.

Very funny. Does the name change to DISH N DASH too?
 

dbstmddhks

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Mar 31, 2014
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In my view, I am not agree with some points

1. there is no market room for a transparent coin


I think coin are inter-mid thing between gold and fiat. and no transparent has no market ??

Anonymity looks fancy to attract black market. but it's not 'core business model'

you want black market uesr's coins ? you think it's real right direction for coins ?

anonymity is generally used for 'pump'.

privacy and anonymity is completely different.



2. InstantSend - This is a great feature, but other coins essentially have this feature due to lower block confirmation times or they outright have or are adding this feature


You really think that lower block confirmation times solve the 'fast send issue'???

It is totally not!! I recommand you to read 'bitcoin white paper'

In shortly, if you want to send coin fast with high 'security level'

only lower block confirmation times never be a good choice.

(lower block generating time is also not to be a good solution too)

It is becuse blockchain is not server.

So, lower block confirmation meens "lower securitiy"

(it defends on the percentage)

you need to understand why masternodes are needed to make second tier-architecture

to ensure high speed and security.



3. Mastert node

If masternodes are the only things to hold coins in the wallet.

I don't support it.

but I are agreed with that 'sustainable second-tier network is really needed to wild adaption'

It makes more faster and higher security blockchain network.

This is core.

There is a lot of real business chance for real high security and fast blockchain with sustainable ways.

In these days, almost every blockchain project didn't concentrate on the this goal


I don't think dash's second tier architecture is the 'only solution'

but dahs's goal is really clear

"to be a really useful blockchain with high security and fast with sustainability"

And it will makes 'real business case' in some kinds of fields. (storage and pos)


Abd it it based on the 'masternode network'

MNs are not only for holding coins.

(And even I think almost every coins are on the 'exchanges' not 'wallet'

it is more dangerous and has high votality.)


4. What about Evolution? (2.5 year is too long !!)

It is blockchain.

If there are some mistakes. It is really critical.

(see the eth/etc case. DAO case. Steem and even monero)

and blockchain is decentralized so it's really hard to predicit

what happens with thounsands of node is on line.

Even people didn't update old wallet. it also affect whole network.


In the view of short term investors it is too long

but in the view of blockchain development and longterm holders

it is more good to slow but test a wallet a lot.



I don't want to touch your trade style. it on your own choice.

but I am not agree with your view point of 'blockchain'
 
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Molefish

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I'm just the molefish but I gotta say; at least with Dash I get the open style blockchain with the option to private send. I'm a bitcoin user in a large way, I essentially live off of it... but I got attracted to Dash as it retains the basis of what BTC is doing, yet has a friendly way to provide additional options.

I see it as the potential digital money of the people where I see BTC as digital gold.

Think about it this way... if you have a shift to metals based economy then if only gold is considered all the little guys are screwed. Yes, some things would be better, but we still need a money of the people something truly useful to us as end users... this is why silver is so important.

Well, in the crypto space there is a similar dynamic occurring... there's no point in whining that Dash isn't like other coins... The bulk of the population are white list, good actor type users and Dash can serve us well and preserve privacy. Also don't even try to claim Etherium or LTC can fill this role, we can discuss that later in other threads to be sure if necessary...

I don't know everything there is to know about it, but the idea that Dash could be digital cash and BTC can remain as the crypto flagship actually entails a type of long tail view that could end up being not only beneficial to the overall space but also to Dash enthusiasts.

I think getting some of the newer cutting edge vending companies to take on Dash at the same time they begin to integrate bitcoin would be wise as it'd actually work better for the end user for that use case... yet many of these companies are already working to integrate BTC as a payment option on their new smart machines but Dash would be better for that... so yeah I think if people can push this in the right direction along side some of the other happenings with BTC then Dash's advantage would be easy to see and capitalize on to be sure.

As for the original poster I feel like it's a myopic view of the situation. I plan on backing Dash util I have a reason to do otherwise, just like my other interests and investments. I will need more options of how I can use it in the relatively near future to stay committed to be sure... but there's no reason why I can't try to help cause that to occur... after all that's part of the beauty of this whole idea!

Sorry to ramble, just sharing my thoughts on this before I sleep... :)
 

Molefish

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... Also, this reminds me of threads on gaming forums where people claim to be very upset and they are leaving the community and game altogether, yet they keep paying to play the game and to post periodically about how upset they are!

When I sell an asset, I don't go online to complain to other holders of that asset that I've liquidated and I'm moving on!

like -

'Dammit guys I'm out! I gotta sell my silver to pay some bills and btw - you all suck, and so does this totally useful thing I just sold for value to serve a need I had! I'm pissed and I'm not coming back... until next week... when I post again'

blech what do I know I'm gonna go dig some holes...
 
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GrandMasterDash

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I also heard over on slack that 13.2 will be in 3D and have surround sound enabled.
That's nothing, 13.3 will provide a direct-to-retina experience from the blockchain, ensuring everyone believes the same thing!
 

qwizzie

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I heard on slack that we were skipping v13 alltogether as the number 13 represents a very bad omen in the world of numbers ?
(by the way, according to Microsoft the same goes for number 9)

Surely there is someone out there, who is totally into numbers who can back me up on this .. someone ? anyone ? :confused:
 

Solarminer

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I'm just the molefish but I gotta say; at least with Dash I get the open style blockchain with the option to private send. I'm a bitcoin user in a large way, I essentially live off of it... but I got attracted to Dash as it retains the basis of what BTC is doing, yet has a friendly way to provide additional options.

Well, in the crypto space there is a similar dynamic occurring... there's no point in whining that Dash isn't like other coins... The bulk of the population are white list, good actor type users and Dash can serve us well and preserve privacy. Also don't even try to claim Etherium or LTC can fill this role, we can discuss that later in other threads to be sure if necessary...

I don't know everything there is to know about it, but the idea that Dash could be digital cash and BTC can remain as the crypto flagship actually entails a type of long tail view that could end up being not only beneficial to the overall space but also to Dash enthusiasts.

I think getting some of the newer cutting edge vending companies to take on Dash at the same time they begin to integrate bitcoin would be wise as it'd actually work better for the end user for that use case... yet many of these companies are already working to integrate BTC as a payment option on their new smart machines but Dash would be better for that... so yeah I think if people can push this in the right direction along side some of the other happenings with BTC then Dash's advantage would be easy to see and capitalize on to be sure.
Well, there are reasons Dash is loosing it's flash. It isn't the only locking transaction coin. It isn't the only anonymous coin. And it isn't the only coin with governance. There are competitors with all of these(or will be soon) that will do it better. So it isn't myopic to see better options. And it isn't myopic to see all the coinfirm news pushed as positive news which obviously had a very bad reaction...just look at the price.

As for the vending companies. You really can't do an instantx detector with reasonable bandwidth. Right now you are looking at 1GB/day with hardly any transactions. That is a huge amount and pretty much limits the possibility to use a cell data card. Other coins will have that with 100th the data needed and be ready in a month or two. So yeah, Dash sounds like the king now. With no new features planned in the next few months, holding Dash to wait on Evolution might just be a big risk.
 

UdjinM6

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As for the vending companies. You really can't do an instantx detector with reasonable bandwidth. Right now you are looking at 1GB/day with hardly any transactions. That is a huge amount and pretty much limits the possibility to use a cell data card.
...
I don't get it, can you elaborate pls - what's the connection between "ix detector" and "1gb/day"?
 

Solarminer

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I don't get it, can you elaborate pls - what's the connection between "ix detector" and "1gb/day"?
Oh, sorry for jumping steps. The dashvend code is what I am referring to as an IX detector. That is what we used on the Dash N Drink. It requires that you run a full node. The code looks at all the network transactions to find the locks on the InstantX payment. We used version .55 so maybe there is something changed from that, but we measured about 1GB/day which is basically all the in and out network traffic.
 

demo

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Dash isn't the only coin with governance. There are competitors with all of these(or will be soon) that will do it better.
Do you know any other coin (except dash) that has governance?
Please name it.
 
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xdashguy

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i don't like projects with an anonymous lead programmer like vcash's john conner. How far can you get with such a team?
Who pays that team?
That is why they are adopting a governance model similar to Dash's.

Do you know any other coin (except dash) that has governance?
I believe bitshares has a form of governance model. Its different than Dash's and pre-dates Dash. It was likely the first DAO. Other than that, VCash is implementing one within a few months. You can see the 12 month roadmap here: https://v.cash/forum/threads/12-month-timeline.349/

They have a lot of other features. They have an InstantX-like featuer (called ZeroTime) that is superior to instant X. It offers respending within 1 minute (versus Dash's 15 minutes I believe) and is faster than instantX and more scalable. Connections between nodes are also encrypted and not open. It has incentivzed nodes. It has coinblender, which is like Dash's "PrivateSend", but it offers more anonymity than Dash. It is currently in Alpha for ZeroLedger, which let's you use a wallet anywhere without downloading the blockchain. Superior to SPV nodes.

When you think about it, Evolution is a total scam. It is going to take YEARS to implement and its three primary features are the following: 1) no need to download blockchain (same thing ZeroLedger offers or even an SPV wallet has) 2) Syncing between wallets on different devices (same thing any bitcion HD wallet has) 2) Ability to make payments via email instead of payment address

As to point #3, this is not a feature that needs to take years to implement and let's be real it is the only real useful innovative feature. It is really no different than a DNS system. How do we translate names into addresses? This way you can use an email address and then in the backend it translates to payment address. This could be done by looking at things like namecoin. It could even be integrated in spv nodes in coins like namecoin as authorities on email / address converters. What I am saying is this is the primary feature of evolution and it is not even a feature that would take long to implement in another coin. That is about 90% of evolutions functionality right there.
 

demo

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I believe bitshares has a form of governance model. Its different than Dash's and pre-dates Dash. It was likely the first DAO.
Comparing the "Delegated Proof of Stake" of Bitshare with the "Decentralized Governance Blockchain Budget" of Dash, is like comparing the parliamentary system with the direct democracy.

When I search for a governance system, I search for a decentralized and direct governance system. I am not looking for a representative and delegated governance system because this type of governance always tends to become centralized.

Other than that, VCash is implementing one within a few months. You can see the 12 month roadmap here: https://v.cash/forum/threads/12-month-timeline.349/
I dont believe they will keep their roadmap.
 
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