Dash World: Failure or Success? (Warning on Dangers Lurking)

camosoul

Grizzled Member
Sep 19, 2014
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I did submit a solition, over a year ago, pre-emptively, before this thing that I knew wold be a mess was implemented. Just because you hadn't shown up yet does not mean that it did not happen. Nor did you go look for it... So...
 

demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
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I did submit a solition, over a year ago, pre-emptively, before this thing that I knew wold be a mess was implemented. Just because you hadn't shown up yet does not mean that it did not happen. Nor did you go look for it... So...
Can you give us a link?
 

demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
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Can you give us a link?
@camosoul
So where is the link?

It is so sad that I still remain the only one proposing a solution in this HUGE dash problem.

So please camosoul, give us the link.
 

Icebucket

Active Member
Apr 11, 2014
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Let us analyze the Lamassu ATM “success”:
  • Lamassu, Inc. has 168 ATMs in total (source), admittedly a paltry number;
  • ONLY one (1) out of 168 has DASH enabled so far (source);

Sorry guys didnt read all of your comments but I did read allot tho.. U guys have allot to say :D

Is this the case ? did Lamassu only enable one ATM with Dash ??
if so WTF ??
 

Icebucket

Active Member
Apr 11, 2014
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This really all boils down to that internet marketing is a huge waste of money.. Organic marketing is free so lets focus on a stellar product and put zero effort into magic internet puff..
 
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Icebucket

Active Member
Apr 11, 2014
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lol camo I love your posts. You put so much thought into them. keep on trucking buddy
 

Icebucket

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Apr 11, 2014
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So let me get this straight "The dash guy" went ape shit over the new web page budget and spending , got commissioned to do it and has not delivered..this webpage is a pain in everybody's bum, just sell us some www.templatemonster.com template and be done with it..
 

demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
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Conclusion and Call to Action
I am calling the masternode owners and / or community members to:

  1. request a 3rd party FULL AUDIT of the business expenses, especially those I outlined herein;
  2. DE-FUND the PR Fall Campaign (Aug) proposal (here) because of the reasons I outlined herein;
  3. DE-FUND the further Lamassu ATM development, for the reasons I outlined herein at least until these never-ending "open issues" are resolved;
  4. create a set of rules for all proposals that would have to have clearly outlined goals, objectives, delivery milestones etc., and bring accountability back into this project before it's too late;
  5. demand some REAL TRANSPARENCY from the people steering a boat representing a $60M ++ market value that produces a budget of now staggering $69,722.64 a month, money that can not be wasted but used with the utmost respect, efficiency, transparency, care and business acumen.
Thank you for your time.
And here is how masternodes owners responded .

Dont you see that there is an obvious problem in your 1000 dash masternode tarrif model?
Dont you see that whales are not enough, and that you also need some other species to be able to vote in your ecosystem?
 
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ec1warc1

Active Member
Jul 26, 2016
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US$70k a month staggering? That is peanuts compared to what small banks pay for advertising for local campaigns! Dash needs to seek international exposure.

Transparency is a great thing and I agree with it. If you are dissatisfied, you can always take your money to some other blockchain and you can do so with a few mouse clicks. Is that not the best transparency of all?
 
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raganius

cryptoPag.com
Foundation Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
And here is how masternodes owners responded .

Dont you see that there is an obvious problem in your 1000 dash masternode tarrif model?
Dont you see that whales are not enough, and that you also need some other species to be able to vote in your ecosystem?
Demo, I have put you on "parole" here, because when you are in good mood you can be a good source of info (as you have been digging around, while I haven't had enough time to be moping around here lately... Anyway, it is against my nature to ignore people, I really feel sad with it) So, I'll try to share with you what I believe is the logic behind this stuff, that at least makes sense in my head, and I hope that I will not be speaking to the walls.

The most important premise to have in mind is that DASH is not a monopoly. (*1) If one is not satisfied, he can avoid buying DASH, or sell what he already has and buy into any other thing... he can even fork DASH and do the perfect cryptocurrency of his dreams.

A focus point to consider is the fact that the more someone has invested in a project, the more they want it (even, depend on it) to succeed (unless the "investor" is not an investor, but an attacker (*2)). So, unless the person is a complete stupid, it is expected that he will think thoroughly about a proposal before voting on it.

Potentialy good decisions will be made. But even if the decisions are not as good as they should have been, the ones to lose more, are the Masternode owners. Each and every person will lose or gain in proportion to their holdings, so it seems fair to me that the bigger holders have a specific way to make decisions on the network. (*3)

(*3) Why is it important that the bigger holders have a specific way to make decisions on the network?

Because the other players already have their own voice (their specific way to make decisions on the network):
  • Miners: their voice is the hashrate. If the so called "core team" acts dishonestly, or if the Masternoders make bad decisions, the Miners will respond, by mining a "better coin". Likewise, if the market decides to fly elsewhere, the hashrate goes together;
  • Developers: (and here I equal "core team" to developers, because that's how I understood DASH nowadays) Their voice is the hability to put into code what the system needs (in their perspective, ultimately). But if they act against the will of the other parts, irresposibly, dishonestly, and even arrogantly, they risk be left alone... and what is the use to be left alone on a P2P cryptocurrency network: without investors, without users, without the market DASH value is ZERO;
  • Merchants: If DASH proves to be worth, the merchants will adopt it. If it appears to be scam, they will ignore it... anyway, if there are plenty of users, the merchants will stay with DASH. Merchants want a useful currency (not a fairy tale democracy);
  • Users: If DASH proves to be worth, the users will adopt it. If it appears to be scam, they will ignore it... anyway, if there are plenty of merchants, the users will stay with DASH. Users want a useful currency (not a fairy tale democracy);
  • The Market: The Market will put their money on what they believe will give them a good return. If DASH is a dreamers land voting system, or if DASH is a scam to benefit a superior caste (be it named core or masternoder or whatever), the Market will also ignore DASH. The price will reflect the value: a serious project has more value, so it tends to have a better market price;
  • The Masternode owners: Are risking their pockets... they must make the correct choices.... or die ;)
Do you notice the balance? Each of these players have got their own ways not only to influence, but to efectively control the way DASH develops. One depends, and must respect, the other.

Before, the "bigger investors" were like hostages of the other players, because they did not have a voice of their own. So they didn't care, they could fly from one cryptocurrency to the other (pumps and dumps). Now, DASH brought them the possibility to have a voice on the network, and better, providing important core services: the soul of the DASH (*4)

(*4) What is the Soul of the DASH?
I will repeat myself again here... better yet, out of lazyness, I'll quote myself:
Have you noticed how fast it is to sync a DASH full node (compare it with bitcoin or ethereum or whatever). Will 50 dash masternodes be as reliable? You are too focused on "voting". But voting is not DASH's real focus. Voting is as important as nada if DASH is not even able to do the basic: being a decent digital cash.

Full disclosure: I despise all this nonsense focus on democracy to this project, because this is a waste of time.

DASH has got exactly the same upper limit of decentralization of any other blockchain based currency, including bitcoin. The Masternodes are not the only full nodes on the DASH network: the miners are full nodes, and even your home DASH core is as full node as any other. The difference is: the Masternodes are nodes with a minimun quality requirement (at least running 24/7 on fast VPS, and all other bla bla bla that will allow you to sync your home node reliably faster than any other shitcoin, and also to provide reliable mixing service <- the most important when it comes to DASH). Prove that your 2 dash home node connected to a shit ISP will be as reliable as a seriously hosted one, and you win the game.
Now, regarding "democracy": It should be adopted into DASH as long as it is the strict necessary for the minimum necessary governance of the cryptocurrency. IMHO, if we waste too much time discussing, instead of acting, DASH is doomed.

What is DASH's vocation: to be a decent digital cash or to be an attempted improvement of Brazilian's sick voting machine?

I would prefer that we leave the "world democracy dream" to a specifit separate project, lest we end up with neither the cash nor the honest voting...

(*2) attacker, because a very rich entity cound potentially buy up a hubongous amount of DASH, and put up Masternodes in order to make bad decisions, aiming to destroy the network... in this case, the price of DASH will increase so marvelously, that all the previous DASH owners (even the 1 DASH owners) will have sold it with a very good profit, anyway, and won't be affected by the destiny of the project.

I have been considerate to you, trying to honestly put these comments here, I hope you can make a good use of it. I have got no intentions to take this conversation any longer, though, simply because it is not the most important thing to my life... as implied above, (*1) if DASH starts a weird nonsense journey with dubious decisions, I have no problems selling all I have, because there are some good projects out there that I can keep my hard earned money in ;)

Ok, bye, it's sunny, and I am going to the beach :cool:

edit: to try to stick to the subject of this thread, my opinion: I wish DASH gave a little more importance to the contributions from individual users, independent contributions, instead of only focusing their attention to "the core"... and this message is mainly to the Masternoders...
The core team is doing their job, and I am ok with it up to now (nothing can be perfect for everyone), but the rest of the community seem to be too dependent of the "core", and is forgetting about the rest....
As I have said elsewhere: support, recognition, attention, the deserved manifestation of gratitude towards individual efforts from the community, are great examples of incentives (much more efficient than money, most of the times), but I fear that sometimes the community does not see things this way...
ok, if this is already our "corporate model", so I think that makes sense, anyway...
 
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demo

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Apr 23, 2016
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@raganius the above is your theory. Everyone has a theory. I am not going to explain now the flaws of your theory, just let me tell you that you tend to have a marxist view in the sense that you tend to present a caste system. But in practice, no one belongs to a single caste, people are mixed.

Now lets go back to the practice.

How your theory explains problems like the lamassu ATM?
How your theory tries to solve those kind of problems?
Have you a solution to propose? or your answer is "just lets live with the problem, whales are whales and we have to accept the fact that they do not react on anything"

Lets focus in practice and not in theories.

Am I the only one (once again) who proposes a real solution (that can be implement directly into the source code of dash)?
 
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raganius

cryptoPag.com
Foundation Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
@raganius the above is your theory. Everyone has a theory. I am not going to explain now the flaws of your theory, just let me tell you that you tend to have a marxist view in the sense that you tend to present a caste system. But in practice, no one belongs to a single caste, people are mixed.

Now lets go back to the practice.

How your theory explains problems like the lamassu ATM?
How your theory tries to solve those kind of problems?
Have you a solution to propose? or your answer is "just lets live with the problem, whales are whales and we have to accept the fact that they do not react on anything"

Lets focus in practice and not in theories.

Am I the only one (once again) who proposes a real solution (that can be implement directly into the source code of dash)?
Thank you for your attention, but your answer shows that you understood nothing of what I wrote (or, worse, that you pretend not to understand)...

Anyway, it's clear that we are the only ones who remain interested in such subject, so it would really be a waste of time (at least for me) to go on insisting ;)
 
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camosoul

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Sep 19, 2014
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Merchants: If DASH proves to be worth, the merchants will adopt it. If it appears to be scam, they will ignore it.
Not true. Even if they do want it, zero though or concern has been put into the Vendor Experience.

It's a brutal pain in the ass and there's no fucking way any vendor is going to learn and do all the bullshit they'd need to do to accept DASH unless they're a fanboy with a business that isn't doing well which affords them a bunch of free time...

@Solarminer and @camosoul had the answer. We could all be buying gas and groceries with DASH right this very moment. But, the community decided that it didn't want that.
 
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Solarminer

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Apr 4, 2015
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The thing most people don't see is that credit cards get 3% + monthly fees from merchants just to take a payment. They use that to hire a sales staff and pay for terminals and backend services for merchants. Along with that the credit card companies give payment terms along with incentives to users with points or rebate cards. Dash needs to be COMPETING with credit cards.....not just trying to be cash. Most purchases are now with credit cards....why is that? Credit Cards are actively selling and providing tools for merchants(those tools are not online web banking, but card scanners, payment terminals, phone apps, etc).
 
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demo

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Apr 23, 2016
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Your proposal solves a different problem than the one I am addressing at.

How your proposal can solve the problem when the community assigns a job to be done (through the budget voting procedure), and this job is not accomplished? How the community can protect itself from those who receive money and they do not give deliverables back.

I proposed for the community to be able to revert the budget transactions whithin a predefined(voted) time frame, and only if this is a decision of a vote. A vote not among MNOs, but among persons (one person-one vote)
 
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demo

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@Solarminer and @camosoul had the answer. We could all be buying gas and groceries with DASH right this very moment. But, the community decided that it didn't want that.
First of all the negative decision is always reversible. You have 514 Yes / 690 No. You need some more yes, so some more advertising to be done. In order to understand if your advertising is succesfull or not, you definitely also need something like this.

Additionaly Its not the community that decided. It is the Whales that decided that. It is the MNOs.
It is obvious to me that not only MNOs should have voting rights.
 
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mastermined

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very informative thread. it brought up a lot of issues i too was concerned about. the rebuttals/explanations were good but not quite good enough yet. overall i am happy with the project but there are problems that need to be addressed....

1. atm
this project is now way overfunded and the results don't match the current funding. luckily it will be dropped and need to be resubmitted like all proposals on the upcoming release. the price should be readjusted and project progress vs funding reevaluated, i recently changed my votes to no. i will vote yes again if the price is adjusted and deadline assurances are made.

2. website
this has been an ongoing problem and moneyhole. i have not seen any updates posted on btctalk and quit following/looking for them on here over a month ago. from everything i have read in this thread this is still an ongoing problem. anyone have a link or info about the current state of things?

3. request a 3rd party FULL AUDIT
this is actually one of the reasons i voted for the dash world project and this thread seems to be a good start to that. more needs to be done especially on the atm and website front.

like i said, overall i am happy with our project but more needs to be done in terms of accountability of projects that received proposal funding. now i'm off to do just that.:)
 

camosoul

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Sep 19, 2014
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If you want massive exposure, do something worthy of it.
 
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freshdopamine

New Member
May 28, 2016
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Thanks for the post... I am starting to see a big problem with proposal. Alot of hype and no delivery... How does one vote NO do a funded project?