Dash Lite Fork

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GrandMasterDash

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You're exhibiting what's called "normalcy bias." see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normalcy_bias

I was willing to take a chance on Dash because of RT's leadership. RT is not just brilliant, he's disciplined and honest -- a good person. If Andy Freer and his Trojan horse Incubator take control of the project, the whole equation changes. I am asking for a fork because I want a lifeboat away from this doomed ship.
So instead of answering the question you choose to question my judgement. Got it.

I understand full well what threats exist. And heading a US based company is one such line of attack. In which case, perhaps you yourself are the enemy, defending a trojan horse. But it is of little consequence, I see no support for your concerns.
 

vazaki3

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But it is of little consequence, @Geert . I see no support for your concerns.
But it is of little consequence, @Geert . I see no support for your concerns.
But it is of little consequence, @Geert . I see no support for your concerns.
But it is of little consequence, @Geert . I see no support for your concerns.
But it is of little consequence, @Geert . I see no support for your concerns.
But it is of little consequence, @Geert . I see no support for your concerns.
But it is of little consequence, @Geert . I see no support for your concerns.
But it is of little consequence, @Geert . I see no support for your concerns.
 

dance

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All this bullshit with Andy Freer and his agents trying to take control of the project has got me thinking. Maybe a simplified version of Dash should be spun off that does not include the "developer risk," the coinjoin stigma, and the nauseating governance/treasury system. What I am proposing is a stripped-down version of Dash that has the following features ONLY:

- Chainlocks.
- Enhanced InstantSend

There is no governance, no treasury and no mixing of coins. It would be a purely volunteer project ideally led by someone like Codablock.
And how exactly do you intend to make decisions if there is no governance? For good and for bad, Dash has not forked unlike our friend Bitcoin has done multiple times. Governance is one of the key features and one of the best features of Dash.
 

dance

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Our journey to the promised land of Evo adoption is not assured. We have to avoid the following pitfalls:

1. Evo is never released.

This could happen if some people here succeed in destroying DCG and we no longer have a competent CTO.

2. Evo is released but it's lame.

If contact list privacy is not implemented, for example, I would not use Evo nor would I recommend it to anyone.

3. Evo is released, and not lame, but it can't scale.

Pasta recently admitted that IS can only handle eighteen transactions per second, so this is a real concern.

4. Evo is released, is not lame, can scale, but it's too late.

When central bank digital currencies are rolled out, TPTB may simply ban competing, unauthorized digital currencies. This is not as hard as you might think. They can declare that possession, issuance, mining, trading and transferring crypto-assets is illegal. The Indian government has proposed just such a bill this year. Google and Apple would then remove all unauthorized crypto apps from Android and iOS devices.

You might say that crypto is too popular to ban. Alcoholic beverages were pretty popular as well in America in 1920.

* * *

Forking the coin as I proposed is not such a bad idea. A different and maybe more valuable fork idea would be as follows:

- Allow LLMQs to be block producers and do away with POW.
- Deprecate IS since LLMQs are not picking and choosing txes, but using a known algo to assemble blocks instead.
- Implement LLMQ-based blockchain pruning to maintain a small blockchain.
- No mixing, no treasury, no governance, no Evo (sorry grandma).
I do think you have some valid concerns, can you please reference the statement by Pasta saying IS only handle 18 tps? I like to investigate it and see if it has been improved. Furthermore I share your opinion on the contact list privacy, hopefully that will be addressed, can you also give a reference to where I can read more about this? Regarding point 4, some valid thoughts however I think that this will be a divide in the world, some countries choose to adapt crytpo, others not, I do think that open projects will conquer closed controlled government projects in the long run. Just see how well the petro is doing in venezuela vs Dash, I do think government projects fail many times , just look at linux.. linux is used on 90% of servers today.. it was open source and still is open source.. Dash is a project by the people for the people alongside many other crypto alternatives too.
 
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Geert

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can you please reference the statement by Pasta saying IS only handle 18 tps?

Dash Podcast 172 With Dash Core Developer Pasta on Version 0.17 Release / 306 views / Streamed live on May 21, 2021

My advice is to watch it at 1.75X speed, muted with subtitles on.
 

Geert

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Both InstantSend and PrivateSend (CoinJoin) are dead ends. The only current feature of Dash that has a future is chainlocks. This is why a fork of DASH that does away with the DAO is necessary. The DAO is simply too collectively stupid to understand our situation.
 

GrandMasterDash

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Both InstantSend and PrivateSend (CoinJoin) are dead ends. The only current feature of Dash that has a future is chainlocks. This is why a fork of DASH that does away with the DAO is necessary. The DAO is simply too collectively stupid to understand our situation.
I'm here, ready to buy your dash with cold hard cash.
 

Geert

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I'm trying to understand the effort to paint Andy Freer as a bogeyman. What exactly is the threat to Dash you perceive from him, @Geert?
Andy Freer publicly stated on DashCentral that his goal is to dismantle DCG. See https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/...r-andy-freer-to-withdraw-his-candidacy.51477/

Andy originally said he was coming back to the project to build on top of Dash core. What he's actually doing* is attempting to take control of Dash core. So he's a liar. In my experience, if you let someone lie to you they will eventually steal from you.

* see https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/some-thoughts-on-joels-interview-with-pasta-updated.51611/
 
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xkcd

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While I love a good fork, everyone does, I think the direction of your shitcoin is wrong and it demonstrates your subordinate and beta characteristics. I think privacy should be a central focus for any DASH fork since that is what DASH has been playing down since the DarkSend rebranding and to its determinant. If you think pandering to the government's AML/KYC/CTF rules is going to win you brownie points, you are fucking retarded - and ignorant. The future is in the Dexes and with trustless wrapping protocols like ren, that allows us to trade our coins on the DeFi Dexes, eg x-Swap, where x = Uni, sushi, pancake, etc etc DASH or a a fork no longer depends on the corrupt CEXes to bring together buyers and sellers. Then we have the rise of Blockchain interoperability with the likes of Thorchain that allow native swaps without even the need for tokenisation which kills CEXes, they are dead and buried. This is the reason that piece of shit Brian ARMSTONG sold his COINbase business, because he can see the writing on the wall and his business is soon to be dead. Of course, you Gerhard have your head stuck so far up your own arse you can't even see the world changing around you so the very best you can come with is this lame ass, beta DASH Lite (LASH) fork out of vengeance over a pig headed egotistical developer you don't like. Cry me a fucking river!
 

Geert

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We face a host of problems. The MN network will not be able to process Evo requests AND simultaneously IS lock every transaction AND simultaneously mix everyone's coins sixteen rounds. Some hard choices have to be made. And now we have an OG faction hell-bent on challenging DCG's leadership at the very moment we need strong leadership.

Do you see why I'm concerned?
 
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GrandMasterDash

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We face a host of problems. The MN network will not be able to process Evo requests AND simultaneously IS lock every transaction AND simultaneously mix everyone's coins sixteen rounds. Some hard choices have to be made. And now we have an OG faction hell-bent on challenging DCG's leadership at the very moment we need strong leadership.

Do you see why I'm concerned?
You sound like some old fart politician trying to scare others about some fake future catastrophe. Don't you have anything more interesting to do? We can talk about hobbies and such like if you want!
 
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xkcd

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Yeah, he is probably wetting the bed over global warming too. We don't have evidence the network can't support all those services and more, in fact from what I can see, the network is scaling really well and we will be testing it again once v0.17 fully forks in so stay tuned!
 

Geert

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Here is how I see things:

InstantSend: Can't scale. Dead end.
CoinJoin: Seven years ago this seemed like a good idea.

So there you have it. Dash's two foundational innovations need to be thrown away at some point. I didn't lose any sleep over this before because I stupidly thought that the devs here report to the CTO and ultimately RT. My fear is that the devs will just keep coding and coding without any understanding of what the marketplace is demanding or even what's technically possible.
 
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xkcd

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Here is how I see things:

InstantSend: Can't scale. Dead end.
CoinJoin: Seven years ago this seemed like a good idea.

InstantSend can scale, watch this space we will do a flood test in 1 or 2 months time to show real-world results. CoinJoin (privacy) is only going to be more important as people start to see how draconian their governments are. We are seeing new coins pop up with privacy as a primary goal and they are proving popular. I and others would like to see DASH focus more on privacy and it won't go away because it scares the likes of you.
 
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Geert

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When RT implemented auto IS I considered it a brilliant mistake. Of course it makes sense from a UX standpoint and IS is better than no IS so why not turn it on all the time? The reason it was brilliant is because it allowed the engineers to see how LLMQs behave under heavy load and this led to the optimized "enhanced IS" we have now. The reason it was a mistake is because at some point we will have to turn if off.


...as people start to see...
No. The people will never start to see anything until it's too late.
 

GrandMasterDash

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When RT implemented auto IS I considered it a brilliant mistake. Of course it makes sense from a UX standpoint and IS is better than no IS so why not turn it on all the time? The reason it was brilliant is because it allowed the engineers to see how LLMQs behave under heavy load and this led to the optimized "enhanced IS" we have now. The reason it was a mistake is because at some point we will have to turn if off.




No. The people will never start to see anything until it's too late.
Sorry My Lord, why would they have to turn it off? If it's not working the fallback state is Nakamoto consensus.
 

Geert

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...why would they have to turn it off? If it's not working the fallback state is Nakamoto consensus.
The software is not smart enough at this time to stop attempting to lock transactions when there are too many per second. The result is that the network stops generating chainlocks.
 

xkcd

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The software is not smart enough at this time to stop attempting to lock transactions when there are too many per second. The result is that the network stops generating chainlocks.

You don't know this, this will be tested in flood test coming up, for now you are fudding because the last stress test we did had no chainlock failures, that's what the
"SPORK_21_QUORUM_ALL_CONNECTED": true, addressed.
 
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Geert

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You don't know this, this will be tested in flood test coming up, for now you are fudding because the last stress test we did had no chainlock failures, that's what the
"SPORK_21_QUORUM_ALL_CONNECTED": true, addressed.
I personally watched the network become inoperable and chainlocks repeatedly fail during the original monster spam attack. Yes, the engineers have implemented an optimization that makes IS locking more efficient, and that is a good thing, but IMHO this will not alter how the network behaves when it is overwhelmed with transactions.

BTW, who are you referring to when you say that "we" did a stress test?
 

xkcd

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I personally watched the network become inoperable and chainlocks repeatedly fail during the original monster spam attack. Yes, the engineers have implemented an optimization that makes IS locking more efficient, and that is a good thing, but IMHO this will not alter how the network behaves when it is overwhelmed with transactions.

BTW, who are you referring to when you say that "we" did a stress test?
Gerhard, I do think your aim is to be as disagreeable as possible, you do understand how software works don't you? it improves over time as issues are found and resolved later.

BTW, who are you referring to when you say that "we" did a stress test?
In this case 'we' is me. I did it and will do it again under the watchful eye of a DCG member to collect stats and whatnot. What have you done for the network lately?
 
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Geert

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Gerhard, I do think your aim is to be as disagreeable as possible...
If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking. -- George S. Patton

... you do understand how software works don't you? it improves over time as issues are found and resolved later.
It's possible for a project like this to run out of "laters."

What have you done for the network lately?
What would you like? I could make YouTube videos with 300 views like Joel. I could plaster the Internet with childish memes like Mark Mason. Or maybe I could start a Discord like yourself and be a censor.
 

xkcd

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If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking. -- George S. Patton



It's possible for a project like this to run out of "laters."



What would you like? I could make YouTube videos with 300 views like Joel. I could plaster the Internet with childish memes like Mark Mason. Or maybe I could start a Discord like yourself and be a censor.
Well everything you just said only proves my point, it's not worth even trying to have an honest discussion with you.
 

vazaki3

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If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking. -- George S. Patton



It's possible for a project like this to run out of "laters."



What would you like? I could make YouTube videos with 300 views like Joel. I could plaster the Internet with childish memes like Mark Mason. Or maybe I could start a Discord like yourself and be a censor.

In the meantime, I am here to help you.
I could compile the dash code, and remove some functionalities from it (it is easy to destroy, difficult to built.).

For a crypto to exist, it needs at least one server.
Where is the server where the development of this new dash fork occurs?
Of course one server is unstable, better having two servers.

So where is the server(s), and the developer(s) of your fork?
 
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qwizzie

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This thread reminds me of something, something funny .. now if i could just remember what it reminds me of.
Oh wait, i remember now :



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Source : https://www.amazon.com/Fine-Art-Delusional-Thinking-ebook/dp/B00FI24OSO

Please keep that delusional thinking of trying to hard fork Dash without important features like its decentralized treasury (bye bye funding for developers), its decentralized governance (bye bye quick and decisive decision-forming proces) and its optional privacy on transactions (bye bye people interested in privacy).
At least at some level it is becoming entertaining to watch now.

 
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Geert

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I'm not the one who is delusional.

The DAO elected three community members to the trust who's goal is to dismantle DCG (the main asset of the trust!). The DAO approved a developer slush fund that will undermine DCG's control of core dev. IMHO the project is dying, and there is no one to blame but the DAO. Look at the masternode count. We're losing masternodes and the price of Dash is at 1/10 ATH.

So what do we do in such a situation? You tell me. You think everything is hunky dory? YOU are the one who's delusional.
 
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