Dash Evolution Discussion Thread

eduffield

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Mar 9, 2014
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https://www.dash.org/binaries/evo/DashPaper-v13-v1.pdf

DashPaper-V13-V1
Page 16

Network Administrators ?



This deserves some discussion : how much power would these network administrators get, how many of them will there be and
how much control do we have over them ?
All that means is the people that run Masternodes (you and me) are administering our network, i.e., network administers. On the new Dash network, we have some majority quorum powers, for example if a user attacks the network we can ban them. It will work like a budget proposal, except it will require a large percent of the network to execute the same command and after it is successful result in the network executing a command securely.

I'm traveling back to Phoenix today though, so I might be pretty slow to answer questions on here.
 

nemo

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Mar 28, 2014
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I think people may have sensed "centralization" inappropriately from the early descriptions. For example, the phrase "which is recorded in their file" may invoke images of bad bosses making mischief with personnel files. I imagine it will all seem much more benign as definitions are fleshed out, but that process has to happen. So, for starters:

1. How will "recorded in their file" actually work?

2. Is every MN owner a network administrator (by definition) or are the network administrators an "elite" subgroup of MN owners? (I assume the former, but seek clarification).

3. What precautions, if any, will prevent "tyranny of the majority" witchhunt-type administrative vote outcomes?
 

TroyDASH

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Jul 31, 2015
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As I mentioned in the other news thread, I am concerned a little about the timing of this. I don't doubt the capability of the devs and how much work must have gone into producing all those papers, but I think it needs to happen faster. I would easily vote for a budget that allocates more funding for more people to work on this full time in order to accelerate the timeframe, and less funding for general marketing. If Evolution can be built to do exactly what it says it will do, the product will practically market itself.
 

TanteStefana

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Thank you Quizzie, just found your post about this thread.

I think we have to remember that first of all, Evolution as a whole will take years to implement. The papers show the vast possibilities that can already be thought up, but will obviously be honed and refined with community involvement. There is no need to panic or worry, we'll all have our say. But of course, remember your concerns so they aren't forgotten :)

Also, Troy, The first "roll out" will be in January, at least a testnet version. It will mostly be the DAPI. The DAPI is the foundation to everything. And after that you'll start seeing things bloom. In the mean time, Dash already works exceedingly well for so many things, I honestly don't see that kind of need for a rush.

Dash is private
Dash is instant
Dash is self governing
Dash has a budgeting system.

We're already so far ahead of the pack. We can take the time to expand the foundation and once the DAPI is available, you'll have all kinds of people offering value added services.
 

Sub-Ether

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Has anyone looked at Ethereum long enough to know whats going on with it?
There are similarities, I was wondering about the advantages of Dash over Ethereum and vice versa, are they heading in the same direction ?
(I remember Evan saying that he hadn't really looked at it)

Presumably for starters we have a huge amount of storage space available, a fast under used network and more scalability?
 

MangledBlue

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Too many people messing with the docs would make a mess, Mangled :) Don't worry, I'm sure they'll get updated as we go along :)
kinda my thought after I thought about it for another minute - ha!
not ta mention the possible destruction of text by potential trolls :p
they'd have a field-day...
 

TanteStefana

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Sub-Ether, you know me with my simplistic understandings, so I'm not sure if what I understand helps you, but I'll venture it. I believe Etherium is purely applications on the blockchain. Dash on the other hand is focusing on being a currency, being cash. They have very similar abilities, but Dash will limit what can be done at the protocol level. On the other side of the DAPI, that's different. But that's also not on the blockchain.
 

Sub-Ether

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So, does this solve bitcoin's malleability problem then? Being able to change the transaction ID could be a potential weakness, surely this has to be set in stone or will there be another more robust ID at a higher level to identify transactions, very important for commerce to have an unique number they can search a transaction with.
 
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TanteStefana

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kinda my thought after I thought about it for another minute - ha!
not ta mention the possible destruction of text by potential trolls :p
they'd have a field-day...
Oh gosh, I've collaborated on docs before, and was so afraid I might make permanent changes or accidentally mess things up, and probably have! It's scary, LOL.
 
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TanteStefana

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How the heck did that happen? LOL, deleted

I don't know enough about bitcoin's malleability problem, so I have no idea. Some are questioning if it's really an issue. Apparently nobody has seen it work before???? Or???
 

Sub-Ether

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Solarminer

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TanteStefana - did you get an answer on the sending money with aliases you posted in bitcointalk? Here is some info from page 26, finally got there....

When sending money to known aliases on the network, the payments are completely
public and transparent. At all other times on the network, addresses are provided to all
parties in a transaction via encrypted private messaging. Even public transactions are
anonymized in the second phase of blockchain archival, so the transactional mapping
would need to be stored permanently and sniffed off the network at the time the
transaction was sent and off the specific shards involved.
 

qwizzie

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Aug 6, 2014
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All that means is the people that run Masternodes (you and me) are administering our network, i.e., network administers. On the new Dash network, we have some majority quorum powers, for example if a user attacks the network we can ban them. It will work like a budget proposal, except it will require a large percent of the network to execute the same command and after it is successful result in the network executing a command securely.

I'm traveling back to Phoenix today though, so I might be pretty slow to answer questions on here.
If possible can you go into more detail with this one, i'm trying to give an answer to someone who asked the following :

what is banning? IP-ban? what is attacking dash? maybe ban DarkLover because your community doesnt like the posting?

i just want to know what banning means.

If i am banned:

- am i able to send funds?
- am i able to run a node?
- am i able to run a masternode?
First i thought it would only effect masternodes and miners, but it mentions users as well ... users as in end-users ?
 
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eduffield

Core Developer
Mar 9, 2014
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I think people may have sensed "centralization" inappropriately from the early descriptions. For example, the phrase "which is recorded in their file" may invoke images of bad bosses making mischief with personnel files. I imagine it will all seem much more benign as definitions are fleshed out, but that process has to happen. So, for starters:

1. How will "recorded in their file" actually work?

2. Is every MN owner a network administrator (by definition) or are the network administrators an "elite" subgroup of MN owners? (I assume the former, but seek clarification).

3. What precautions, if any, will prevent "tyranny of the majority" witchhunt-type administrative vote outcomes?
1. There's a decentralized file-system implementation called DashDrive, which stores "files" on the network. As a developer you can interact with the filesystem like it was local, but it's not, you just open these abstract files that are stored on the network itself. That's how we're going to sync the masternode system, budget systems, etc.

2. Every MN owner is the Admin, unless you hired it out, then node40 is (or whoever you hired to run the hotnode)

3. You mean to protect the privacy of those voting? I'm thinking about a solution for that, but I'm not set on one yet.
 

stan.distortion

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Oct 30, 2014
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3. You mean to protect the privacy of those voting? I'm thinking about a solution for that, but I'm not set on one yet.
Quick thought on that, I'd wondered about it in the past and thought non-identifiable voting tokens transferred to yes/no/abstain pools would work but that's a once only vote, no changing votes later. Not sure if that's even relevant as I've not looked into how votes are handled yet, just throwing in 2d.