Dash ATM Pre/Possible Proposal Discussion

TanteStefana

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Hello all, I was wondering if it might be feasible to create some kind of incentive / funding help to businesses to install Dash Lamassu ATMs around the world. I doubt they're profitable (they only make a small percentage off of each transaction, and I highly doubt any of them get that much traffic) So this would really help adoption by making it easier to buy Dash.

We could make some requirements, such as location (maybe we require them to be in certain size cities, only in large shopping centers) This would be to increase traffic flow and viability. They can also come with large signs to put in their windows.

It takes something like 9 times for a person to see something before they become curious enough to inquire (numbers vary with marketing studies). For people that frequent a mall, we could have hundreds of thousands of people who recognize Dash (even if they don't understand it) by years end. In some larger cities, this could be as many as a million. And if word of mouth / questioning is instigated, then this could easily triple or more.

We would only help purchase the machines, running them would be up to the store owner (as we couldn't possibly maintain them) and we would ensure Dash is the FIRST currency offered. We could also make other conditions to ensure we get our money's worth.

What do you all think?
 

TanteStefana

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I would vote to place DASH ATM into casino where @TaoOfSatoshi works - to enhance the first Embassy of Dash Nation. :)
Great idea! Not sure the casino would go for it, but it would be awesome! Especially if you could gamble with the Dash on some slots as well, LOL (any amount risked that you want, including micro amounts - I'd do under a penny, LOL)
 
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itscrazybro

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I have been thinking about this too.
It would be a huge deal if we could fund these out of the budget as it would mean that the operator of the machine does not have to charge a ridiculous premium on the machines sales as there is no investment to recoup. This means that Dash could become the easiest/cheapest way to get into the cryptocurrency ecosystem. The Gateway currency.

I definitely think that this should be considered later down the road when we have more funds available.
 
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GrandMasterDash

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It has to a be sales process, otherwise it's simply "easy come, easy go". If it was a proposal to fund full page magazine ads to targeted groups then yes, it would get my vote.
 
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TanteStefana

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I have been thinking about this too.
It would be a huge deal if we could fund these out of the budget as it would mean that the operator of the machine does not have to charge a ridiculous premium on the machines sales as there is no investment to recoup. This means that Dash could become the easiest/cheapest way to get into the cryptocurrency ecosystem. The Gateway currency.

I definitely think that this should be considered later down the road when we have more funds available.
Good point, keep it nice and cheap! (if they include Bitcoin, they can charge what they like, but Dash would have to have a limited fee for a certain period of time). I like that as a condition :)
 
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TanteStefana

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It has to a be sales process, otherwise it's simply "easy come, easy go". If it was a proposal to fund full page magazine ads to targeted groups then yes, it would get my vote.
Please elaborate, I don't quite understand your point what you're saying, thanks :)

*NOTE: The above correction is a perfect example of how the choice of words can make a huge difference. I totally didn't mean to sound dismissive, but actually meant to ask for more info. Words are treacherous things.... No wonder forum groups are always in-fighting, eh?
 
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GrandMasterDash

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Please elaborate, I don't quite understand your point what you're saying, thanks :)
When you simply give something for free, the person has no real interest in the outcome. I might, for example, give someone a car, they have an accident and trash it.... and you end up asking yourself, would they of been so careless if they'd worked hard to get it?

So all I'm saying is, when you give a free ATM, I'm not convinced they're going to get all hyped about it, telling everyone how good it's been. A small rebate after installation might work, but an ongoing incentive based on usage would be better.
 

TanteStefana

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Ah, I see what you're saying. Indeed, I didn't clarify a lot in the OP - mostly because I wanted others to come up with ways we could do something like this. I was thinking, however, that it would be a substantial, perhaps up to 50% grant with conditions. The whole thing could even be done as a smart contract. The person *could* purchase an ATM with a contract from us, and the contract would pay them a % of the contract amount each month, as long as they verify they've met the conditions (fees stay low, store front has Dash sign, Dash is first currency option on screen, etc....)

These are just examples of how it could be done. There should be criteria for being considered for the program, etc...
 

Ryan Taylor

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Maybe giving ATMs away for free is not ideal. What about a promotion where you offer Lamassau ATMs for 10% off (just a subsidy), but on the condition that they maintain Dash alongside BTC indefinitely. It might actually get Dash into more locations vs. buying the ATM outright, since you could afford to fund more units at 10% per unit. You would need to work with Lamassau to get their support (possibly even chipping in 5% too or something)... they would pre-load Dash at shipment and we would reimburse the operator once the ATM is installed and can be verified running Dash.
 
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TanteStefana

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Maybe giving ATMs away for free is not ideal. What about a promotion where you offer Lamassau ATMs for 10% off (just a subsidy), but on the condition that they maintain Dash alongside BTC indefinitely. It might actually get Dash into more locations vs. buying the ATM outright, since you could afford to fund more units at 10% per unit. You would need to work with Lamassau to get their support (possibly even chipping in 5% too or something)... they would pre-load Dash at shipment and we would reimburse the operator once the ATM is installed and can be verified running Dash.
Exactly, the only problem/issue is enforcement. It could be resolved entirely via a promise or come down to a smart contract that someone administers and verifies conditions are being met :)

The pre-load it with Dash idea is excellent. I didn't know that's how they worked. I thought they worked though an exchange so that all transactions were priced at what it would cost in the moment? Still, this would be a very cool idea!
 

Ryan Taylor

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Exactly, the only problem/issue is enforcement. It could be resolved entirely via a promise or come down to a smart contract that someone administers and verifies conditions are being met :)

The pre-load it with Dash idea is excellent. I didn't know that's how they worked. I thought they worked though an exchange so that all transactions were priced at what it would cost in the moment? Still, this would be a very cool idea!
I meant pre-load the Dash version of the ATM software, to be clear.
 

tungfa

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ATM's in casinos worked for a while in Maccau
1 of our community members had a whole bunch of BTC ATM's there

in my opinion that only worked as chinese rollers where bringing BTC accross the boarder = changing to cash to gamble and all set (getting past the China Finances where u can only bring x amount to foreign countries/banks/ exchanges/....
that obviously dried off as Maccau is down 40% due to new China Visa regulations
 

itscrazybro

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Maybe giving ATMs away for free is not ideal. What about a promotion where you offer Lamassau ATMs for 10% off (just a subsidy), but on the condition that they maintain Dash alongside BTC indefinitely. It might actually get Dash into more locations vs. buying the ATM outright, since you could afford to fund more units at 10% per unit. You would need to work with Lamassau to get their support (possibly even chipping in 5% too or something)... they would pre-load Dash at shipment and we would reimburse the operator once the ATM is installed and can be verified running Dash.
I fully agree here. This is a lot more viable than my suggestion. The possibilities that come from this budgeting system are amazing!
 

GrandMasterDash

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Having thought about this, I think a hard cash rebate per installation would be a good way to go. The customer would submit two pics; outdoors showing location, indoors showing installation. We could then add the pics to a global ATM finder and use in future marketing.

Discounts based on usage would be nice, however, that would have to be done very carefully or maybe not possible, because we must respect the privacy of our end users. Maybe a monthly call home feature showing net number of transactions etc ... but I wouldn't want to verify those transactions.
 

TanteStefana

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I prefer that if we put up any of the money, that we look to get our money's worth in advertisement. So that people would have to approach us, and we would decide if they're in a high enough traffic area to warrent an investment in them. Like, is it a small town hardware store that sees 3 customers a day? Or is it a massive mall in Paris that sees tens of thousands of people walk by each day. Why waste money / funds on the first? I see it as being a type of partnership with the store, with strict requirements that must be met. Not a rebate system for everyone and anyone because then we'd be wasting our funds.

At least that's what I was thinking when I posted this :p
 

GrandMasterDash

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I prefer that if we put up any of the money, that we look to get our money's worth in advertisement. So that people would have to approach us, and we would decide if they're in a high enough traffic area to warrent an investment in them. Like, is it a small town hardware store that sees 3 customers a day? Or is it a massive mall in Paris that sees tens of thousands of people walk by each day. Why waste money / funds on the first? I see it as being a type of partnership with the store, with strict requirements that must be met. Not a rebate system for everyone and anyone because then we'd be wasting our funds.

At least that's what I was thinking when I posted this :p
I don't think so, that's not how word of mouth works. Even if they see just a few transactions per week, those customers might be very loyal, outspoken or popular people. An ATM in a remote location might be "talk of the town" and every new ATM adds to the grand total. ATMs in remote areas could be seen as a plus; providing utility where others dare not... that could be turned into good marketing.

I am much more concerned about live data capture because I really wouldn't want that to be used against us in privacy debates.

But I have another idea...
 

GrandMasterDash

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Another idea would be a monthly payout to ATM owners running a live cam from outside of their premises. I can say from personal experience, they can be very popular, and most definitely when it's snowing! Don't ask me why, but people love cams.

So anyway, a live cam with a suitable image overlay. Could be easily embedded into other pages. Provides residual income to operator plus adds exposure to their own business. It doesn't have to be a large payout, just enough to keep them interested.
 

Ryan Taylor

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@TanteStefana I would say that if you are serious about this proposal, go do some homework. Talk to Lamassau about what discounts would be effective, what they would be willing to do themselves (e.g., match our discount dollar for dollar... install the Dash software, etc. After all, they have something to gain if it helps sell more hardware and services). Talk to ATM operators (big ones) about what discount would make it worthwhile for them. Talk to other experts in the ATM space to get recommendations on the best approach. A bunch of us with ideas on a forum are no match for people in the ATM industry for formulating something that will be effective for as little investment as possible.

If you do your homework and can actually estimate the impact, this could be a very interesting proposal and well aligned with the strategy to improve fiat access.
 

TanteStefana

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I don't think so, that's not how word of mouth works. Even if they see just a few transactions per week, those customers might be very loyal, outspoken or popular people. An ATM in a remote location might be "talk of the town" and every new ATM adds to the grand total. ATMs in remote areas could be seen as a plus; providing utility where others dare not... that could be turned into good marketing.

I am much more concerned about live data capture because I really wouldn't want that to be used against us in privacy debates.

But I have another idea...
That's an interesting point about loyal / more human scale locations. Not sure how it would be used against Dash in a privacy debate? Most of these ATMs are one direction : Fiat => Crypto so that it's like selling a product, not money changing.
 

TanteStefana

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@TanteStefana I would say that if you are serious about this proposal, go do some homework. Talk to Lamassau about what discounts would be effective, what they would be willing to do themselves (e.g., match our discount dollar for dollar... install the Dash software, etc. After all, they have something to gain if it helps sell more hardware and services). Talk to ATM operators (big ones) about what discount would make it worthwhile for them. Talk to other experts in the ATM space to get recommendations on the best approach. A bunch of us with ideas on a forum are no match for people in the ATM industry for formulating something that will be effective for as little investment as possible.

If you do your homework and can actually estimate the impact, this could be a very interesting proposal and well aligned with the strategy to improve fiat access.
Oh dear, I'm more of an instigator than a doer (blushes in shame) I got my hands full at home, LOL. But I'll see if I can't do some research to see if this idea might hold water???

We could also do something similar with soda machines :p
 

Ryan Taylor

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Oh dear, I'm more of an instigator than a doer (blushes in shame) I got my hands full at home, LOL. But I'll see if I can't do some research to see if this idea might hold water???

We could also do something similar with soda machines :p
You can always ask for volunteers to delegate to if you don't have the capacity or desire to pursue this idea, but are willing to manage the steps. You could also propose this to Daniel to see how much room he has on his plate (probably not much)... it is business development and a good use case for the fiat gateways project he has been managing, so this could be in his wheelhouse.
 
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GrandMasterDash

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That's an interesting point about loyal / more human scale locations. Not sure how it would be used against Dash in a privacy debate? Most of these ATMs are one direction : Fiat => Crypto so that it's like selling a product, not money changing.
I thought maybe there was an idea of paying out based on ATM usage.. and I wouldn't want logging of individual transactions to verify they are real.
 

tungfa

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interesting ideas above
but
i am not sure if any work - sorry - no offence

i do not believe it is about that 1 ATM sitting in nowhere and paying the owner to keep it up and alive
i think it is all about creating an ecosystem around that ATM to make it usable and suitable !

so i would save those funds and work on the "ecosystem" (merchants integration + 'collecting' merchants)
if ATM x is in coffeeshop Y who is accepting Dash + neighbour shop selling Magazines and cigarettes (accepting Dash) + Computer store .... + Mobile Store ....
+ Restaurant .....
Ecosystem in place + ATM busy = Owner happy ! :rolleyes:
 

alex-ru

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interesting ideas above
but
i am not sure if any work - sorry - no offence

i do not believe it is about that 1 ATM sitting in nowhere and paying the owner to keep it up and alive
i think it is all about creating an ecosystem around that ATM to make it usable and suitable !

so i would save those funds and work on the "ecosystem" (merchants integration + 'collecting' merchants)
if ATM x is in coffeeshop Y who is accepting Dash + neighbour shop selling Magazines and cigarettes (accepting Dash) + Computer store .... + Mobile Store ....
+ Restaurant .....
Ecosystem in place + ATM busy = Owner happy ! :rolleyes:
I agree, but I think we are talking here about DASH ATM not as "profitable enterprise" but as "Promo billboard".
I will be happy if Dash network sponsors placing DASH ATMs in some "very special places" - for example to the Amsterdam Airport (Schiphol) to let thousands of new people to see this picture next to it - every day.
 
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TanteStefana

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I agree, but I think we are talking here about DASH ATM not as "profitable enterprise" but as "Promo billboard".
I will be happy if Dash network sponsors placing DASH ATMs in some "very special places" - for example to the Amsterdam Airport (Schiphol) to let thousands of new people to see this picture next to it - every day.
Wouldn't that be cool? Space, even a kiosk, at an airport is at a premium, beyond premium though. I'd hate to think what it would cost to put a stand against the wall at LAX Tom Bradley International Terminal LOL. It would be awesome though!!!