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Cryptocurrencies that have governance.

Discussion in 'Alternative Currencies' started by demo, Dec 7, 2016.

  1. GrandMasterDash

    GrandMasterDash Well-known Member
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    I didn't think through the specifics. But it just seems to me, a simple and automated tax could eliminate so much unnecessary work and give zero excuse for "tax evasion".
     
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  2. Pietro Speroni

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    first of all no one would use a currency with a tax included. People even use currencies with fixed cap to make sure their money does not get watered down. Then you have a problem to decide what the tax should be (who decides? the masternodes or the government?) and where the tax goes to (US government? I am resident in Italy why would I pay the US gov? Or maybe we should all pay the Italian government?). Then there are transactions that do not need to be taxed. All the transactions within my own wallets, for example.
     
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  3. Pietro Speroni

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    Another thing which is unacceptable is:

    I don't think it needs much commenting.
     
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  4. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    My pov is somehow different.
    I am not a proponent of taxation, but I am not also against it. It depends on the conditions.

    let the tax functionality be inside the coin's code , and let the community to ignite it upon will and upon vote.

    This is what I mean by "governed coin". The community must decide the conditions and the chunks of code that are allowed to run, and also decide wich chunks of code are the prohibited code. And of course everything must be bounded together in a logical tree.
     
    #34 demo, Jun 14, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2017
  5. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    I dont think @GrandMasterDash means that the tax should go to the US government. I believe his speech is a "meta"-speech. Whatever he said, are just properties of the code that he believes the governed coin of the future should have.

    He said that the tax should go back to the blockchain. This means that the tax should return to whoever governs this blockchain. Whether the blockchain governors are the MNOs, or a traditional government, or whether the traditional government has shares into the blockchain, or whether something tottaly different and unexpectable happens, this does not matter. We are talking about the properties of the code, and the code should take into account all possible scenarios.

    "The tax functionallity should be a property of the blockchain code" (this is what @GrandMasterDash just said) "and the community should decide to ignite this property, and lets vote the numbers about it" (I completed).
     
    #35 demo, Jun 14, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2017
  6. GrandMasterDash

    GrandMasterDash Well-known Member
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    To say no one would accept a coin with tax is also to say, no one would pay $1000 to submit a proposal, or no one would choose 1.8 dash as a reward. Willingly accepting one side of the argument when it suits us (reward paid), yet choosing to reject "tax". Inflation occurs the moment a proposal is successful. It is a tax because more dash magically comes into existence. The benefit for that inflation is hopefully more adoption. So why must we think the benefit of another type of tax is zero? Sure, we can discuss how we derive the various numbers, or how we determine the beneficiaries, but that doesn't make the idea inherently flawed.

    The fiat system is "broken", that's why we're in crypto, but it's clearly good enough for a large number of people, or else we wouldn't be so obsessed to measure the bitcoin price is dollars. And it has already been suggested, had Adaptive Proposal Fees existed at the start of the coin, then it would of surely stayed that way, unchallenged. And so too for a pre-programmed tax mechanism; if it existed at the start, people would choose to use the coin, or not, so where is the problem?

    Don't misunderstand me. I am definitely allergic to taxes! But if we can guarantee the rules in code.. code is law, right?

    And remember, I am also proposing the flip side to tax.. interest paid on time locked funds. Thus as a user you make your choices.. and everyone would definitely make their own choice. Some people piss their money away, while others are savers, and everything in-between.
     
  7. GrandMasterDash

    GrandMasterDash Well-known Member
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    Btw, you can add Ark to your list of currencies with governance.
     
  8. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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  9. GrandMasterDash

    GrandMasterDash Well-known Member
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  10. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    I recreated the governed cryptocurrencies page, after vandalizing the adult_cryptocurrencies.
    I hope they have got the message.

    Please improve the article.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governed_cryptocurrencies
     
    #40 demo, Jun 18, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2017
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  11. Pietro Speroni

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  12. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    Are the governed cryptocurrencies original research? I dont think so.

    Wikipedia supports lists on things
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lists_of_lists

    Anyway...

    What is the wiki page you recommend we start editing in order to create the list of governed cryptocurrencies?
     
  13. Pietro Speroni

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    Ark mentions voting:
    https://ark.io/

    For the wiki chose anyone that gives us some free place. At the worse a piratepad will work good enough
     
  14. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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  15. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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  16. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    #46 demo, Jun 28, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2017
  17. WadeO

    WadeO New Member

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    What do you think about the Burst movement
     
  18. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    Burst coin seems to have some kind of crowdfunding
    https://forums.burst-team.us/category/11/burst-projects-crowdfundings

    Some people consider crowdfunding as a governance mechanism. I dont think that crowdfunding can be considered as a governance mechanism. Governance means you vote in order for something that belongs to everybody to be exploited and/or reclaimed in a certain way. Crowdfunding means you pay in order for something that it is liked to be born or created.

    Of course if in your mind voting and paying is the same thing then you may confuse governance's and crowdfunding's meanings. Many people are confused and they say that the more money someone has, the more voting power should have.

    But governance is not the same as crowdfunding, and voting is not the same as paying, because what happens in the reality is below:

    The more loyal or slaves you have, the more money you have. The money you own exists because people believe in it or because you force them to believe in it. If you have no loyal or no slaves, then whatever money you have is tottaly useless. In case you have loyal and faithful people your vote/opinion is what really counts and not your money. In case you have slaves, your power/force (against them) is what really counts and not your money. So money totally depends on someone's vote/opinion and on someone's power/force, and it is impossible to exist otherwise.

    Many people are confused and they say that the more money someone has, the more voting power should have. If they are not forced to say this, they say it because they are loyal and faithful to the rich. Being faithful and loyal to the rich without being forced, this is the ultimate stupidity.

    Crowdfunding cannot be considered pure governance because it implies an underlying (and imposed) faith to the rich. In that sense of course, neither Dash, nor PIVX, nor Decreed can be considered as a pure governed coins. Because the governance system of all these coins also implies the same faith to the rich people, and this faith is subtly imposed (like many other things in the design of these coins) by the smart spies into the empty mind of the stupids.
     
    #48 demo, Jul 2, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2017
  19. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    We can see here NEM proposals.
    And here is their voting module.

    But they ask your real identity, and their wallet is lightweight based on javascript, which is unsafe IMO.
     
    #49 demo, Aug 16, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017
  20. moxx aka joe

    moxx aka joe New Member

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    Tezos sounds really good, if they can implement it like they say in their whitepaper.
     
  21. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    Biblepay
    http://biblepay.org/
    https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/biblepay/
    It is a dash fork. It should have some kind of governance. As they said:
     
    #51 demo, Oct 7, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2017
  22. DAOMN

    DAOMN Member

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    Doesn't the DASH fork, Crown, have governance? They call voting nodes trons I think.
     
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  23. Lorax

    Lorax New Member

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    I have found NXT a very interesting coin, soon to be Ardor.
     
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  24. nnx3

    nnx3 New Member

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    only PIVX and NEM give profit above inflation, better way is still hold IOTA (0% inflations) and token from Ether netwrk as GNT, SJCX (no inflation), now DASH give 8% but inflation is 20% it means that MN dash holder are -12% losers for the miners.
     
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  25. GrandMasterDash

    GrandMasterDash Well-known Member
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    I thought PoS sitting in a hot wallet was vulnerable to hacking...
     
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  26. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    #56 demo, Dec 3, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2017
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  27. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    This thread is about coins that have governance, not about coins that will have.
     
    #57 demo, Dec 5, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
  28. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    When will you get there? Is there a timeline?
    And who are you? Are you Alice?

    You know what? There is a common thing between automated bots and paid trolls/spies/journalists. They both dont answer to questions. So if the individuals of the community get used to classify people who do not answer to questions, they will reveal both automated bots and paid trolls/spies/journalists.
     
    #58 demo, Dec 5, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
  29. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    Can you provide us a link for your claim?
    A github repository with a beta version?
    You have to anwer me, otherwise I will classify you to people who do not answer questions.
    Anyway, please inform us in this thread whenever governance arrives in DeepOnion.
     
    #59 demo, Dec 5, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
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  30. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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