Charlie Shrem's failed Dashpay card

May 1, 2017
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As many of you are aware, Charlie Shrem presented a proposal to create a dash pay debit card that never ended up materializing. As he will be at a conference I'm attending soon, and the community's questions have gone unanswered I'm going to directly ask him if he plans to burn the dash, and why not, if not. I'll try to do this live in front of the audience, but I'll just try to ask him in the hallways or wherever I can if not.
Before I ask him anything, I want to make sure I have the facts first and would like community input on my question phrasing.
What are the most recently updated details on that proposal? From what I understand, he received 450 Dash under this budget:
"- Initial 1 time card program fee is 150 DASH
- Development costs and maintenance 75 DASH per month.
- Customer support is 25 DASH per month."

His last communication with the community was here
where he said he "was looking to have this card for sale *within a few weeks* at 'the end of august [2017], hopefully before then'" and said you could soon go to http://www.dashpaycard.com/ for details (dead link now)


First of all, I'd like to say this should be a learning experience for the dash community/MN in what happens when you get a budget like this, and pay it all up front for no reason. We should at least have been able to save the 3 * (75+25) dash from "maintenance" and "customer support" when there was nothing to maintain and no customers.
I mean... dash went from $77 on the date he was funded (April 19), to $100 May 19, to $200 June 19.
But we didn't get a chance to rebalance or withdraw funding bc it was paid up front and not into escrow.

Anyway, he essentially owes the network at least 300 dash, as far as I'm concerned. Is this a reasonable estimation?
The preferred way of returning this should be to burn it, right?

I plan to phrase my question as follows in front of everyone, but if I can't, I'll try to approach him in the hallway and get a cell phone video on it if possible. I'll edit this post below to rephrase my question based on the community's thoughts.


"Charlie,
On April 19th of last year, you received 450 Dash from the DASH DAO for development of a debit card. You said there would be a 150 dash one-time fee, and 100 dash per month for 3 months for "maintenance and customer support"
I have two questions. (if he rolls his eyes or laughs at this point, I'll say "well now I have 3 questions")
One, when did you convert the Dash you received to fiat? 450 dash was $35,000 @ $77 but if the "ongoing maintenance" was really per month, your fiat budget for the 100 monthly would have tripled during this time. Do you ever plan on releasing these details, and why not, if not"

[btw, does anyone have on-chain evidence on when he transferred to exchanges?]

Two, do you ever plan on burning the 300 dash you quoted for "maintenance and customer support, considering that you never issued a single card, and thus there was no maintenance or support. Or any Dash at all?

(
if and only if I said the "3 questions" thing earlier:

and Three, you haven't even given the dash community the common courtesy of a report about what went wrong, and instead you just laugh dismissively when this is brought up. So I was wondering why you think this is so funny?)"

Btw where should I buy dash swag to wear for this?
I want a blue hat with an embroidered logo. sponsor it?: XumdambD55mKs3XoB334GT4uQJhCHr26Ep


 
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solarguy

Active Member
Mar 15, 2017
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In my estimation, Charlie will never do another deal with the Dash community. He is a textbook case of how not to handle a situation that runs into problems.

Having said that, there is some impending deal where he has agreed to give the Dash back (I believe) and "the check's in the mail". I believe Mark Mason knows the details.

Of course, I will believe it when we get our hot little hands on it. I'm surprised anybody in the crypto space will do business with Charlie now.
 

strophy

Administrator
Dash Core Team
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Feb 13, 2016
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XfNeikkfga1GUVt3TUE5XjB4jRhQXPPiKa is the Dash Core escrow address. You can see this by searching for it on https://dashwatch.org/cards

@Mark Mason may know more about what the arrangement was regarding escrow...
 
Apr 9, 2018
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XfNeikkfga1GUVt3TUE5XjB4jRhQXPPiKa is Core Group address (you can check it here in "Super Blocks History" search box).
XwNDKfgDmoKrpJy67a56xnq238jJynAHkE is also belongs to Core Group (look at this transaction - it have 2 inputs with both of these addresses - which means that both of addresses have the same owner).

Now look at this (from proposal):
Update: I dont need to wait for the payout to get started, as soon as I see enough YES votes I will lay out the program fee myself.
and this chart (proposal hit threshold on March 17)
and this transaction from Core team on March 23 (2 weeks prior to that super block), exactly 450 Dash to address XwChHbGRVwACULR9kGyzYFdKxkehccGRzr. This looks like payout to Charlie.

Going further, assuming that this is Charlie's address.
Now quick blockchain analysis shows that almost all of these 450 Dash passed through one address XpESxaUmonkq8RaLLp46Brx2K39ggQe226 (on March 24-26). I have recognized this address because I've made some investigation for this poor guy. Now look at his last comment:
Thank you!! Problem is now solved. Checked my email which I never use and it was there I used changelly
Changelly! All 450 Dash went to Changelly! Very bad sign...
 
May 1, 2017
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XfNeikkfga1GUVt3TUE5XjB4jRhQXPPiKa is Core Group address (you can check it here in "Super Blocks History" search box).
XwNDKfgDmoKrpJy67a56xnq238jJynAHkE is also belongs to Core Group (look at this transaction - it have 2 inputs with both of these addresses - which means that both of addresses have the same owner).

Now look at this (from proposal):

and this chart (proposal hit threshold on March 17)
and this transaction from Core team on March 23 (2 weeks prior to that super block), exactly 450 Dash to address XwChHbGRVwACULR9kGyzYFdKxkehccGRzr. This looks like payout to Charlie.

Going further, assuming that this is Charlie's address.
Now quick blockchain analysis shows that almost all of these 450 Dash passed through one address XpESxaUmonkq8RaLLp46Brx2K39ggQe226 (on March 24-26). I have recognized this address because I've made some investigation for this poor guy. Now look at his last comment:


Changelly! All 450 Dash went to Changelly! Very bad sign...
Wow
Ok so core just fronted him all the money before his proposal passed? Just because he was so well known?
Who made that decision?
Does not sound like decentralized governance...

The dude went to prison for assisting money laundering... then sends all his dash to changelly. Sounds about right.
 

Macrochip

Active Member
Feb 1, 2015
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Wow
Ok so core just fronted him all the money before his proposal passed? Just because he was so well known?
Who made that decision?
Does not sound like decentralized governance...

The dude went to prison for assisting money laundering... then sends all his dash to changelly. Sounds about right.
It's probably the reason Daniel Diaz is no longer with Core. He authorized that transaction (which I know for a fact, because a Core Team member told me) and paid for this f*ck up of a proposal with his job (I think. Makes most sense to me at least). Not the first time he screwed up either. After the disgrace of the Scamassu disaster that was the only logical consequence.
Best part? Didn't hurt him too much. He's probably busy enjoying cocktails with Ira Miller in Panama right now. At least that's what the pictures on Twitter showed him doing when the proposal was still running, as result-free as ever.
 

demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
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XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
Well at least for some of us, Charlie's behaviour was not a surprise.
Not at all...
Congratulations to Charlie. He did the right thing for himself.
Almost everyone would do the same, if they could.
The enemy is not Charlie. The enemy is the masternodes who voted for him.
The enemy is the people who are attacking the idea this project represents.
These people managed to shut down the project. But for how long?
The truth will shine again, one day. You may kill a project, but not an idea.
 
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May 1, 2017
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They cut the stream before Q&A
He claimed that he is currently working with the dash core to return the funds. True?
 

solarguy

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I appreciate that Charlie is making some effort to pay us back but......The check's in the mail.......somewhere.......maybe......

Charlie Shrem is dead to me. He will never work with Dash again.
 

camosoul

Grizzled Member
Sep 19, 2014
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Save your appreciation until we get some proof... imo he gave that answer bc there was a camera on him and a whole bunch of people who had never heard about this issue were watching. Any argument would have resulted in more people looking into it.
...which is why ambush journalism isn't effective.
Thats more likely than it being "in progress" or any bullshit like that
"There's a sucker(node) born every minute." - Not Actually Barnum

I hope the irony of the attribution isn't wasted...

You'd have been better off to ask him about progress on the card. What banks hes in talks with. Give him some rope, see if he hangs himself with it...

But, that ship has sailed... Duffs under a burned bridge...

P.S. - That guy said a bad word and his post didn't get deleted. My posts get deleted for bad language when I say "cockroach" just because it has "cock" in it... Methinks the moderators have a double-standard. Or they hate poultry... Perhaps they're mad at Chic-fil-a for rebuffing post-modernist crybullies? It's a theory anyway...
...being "in progress" or any bullshit like that
I'm calling bullnanigans... I guess the rules only apply to certain people that need to be silenced...
 
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May 1, 2017
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yeah, probably true that the ambush wasn't effective.
Clearly no progress is being made though on the card, so he prob would have given the same answer.
I'm not a journalist, which is why I asked for input from the community. This was the best I could do.
Next time I go to a conference to ask him again, I'll post here again, so input is appreciated.
 
May 1, 2017
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You deleted my entire post because I used a mild curse word?
I post here to try to help out dash, outright deleting of my post is overkill.
I've been very polite on this forum
You could have just edited the word out if it was really that offensive. Pretty rude of you to delete everything I wrote in this thread especially, where I'm going out and actually doing something on behalf of dash, for free
 

demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
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You deleted my entire post because I used a mild curse word?
I post here to try to help out dash, outright deleting of my post is overkill.
I've been very polite on this forum
You could have just edited the word out if it was really that offensive. Pretty rude of you to delete everything I wrote in this thread especially, where I'm going out and actually doing something on behalf of dash, for free
Many of us have similar problems.
Stop complaining and vote for the forum rules to be amended.
 
May 1, 2017
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Sadly I feel like I've already wasted too much time on these forums. Every time I try to help it seems like either nobody cares or at least is willing to help.
This is pretty much it. If I'm going out and doing something on Dash's behalf and this is the thanks I get, and the suggestion is to vote to change the forum rules...?
ugh. Just ugh. Just like everything with this coin that had so much blown potential
I'm not going to waste time trying to fight the tide
gl all
 

demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
3,113
263
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Dash Address
XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
Sadly I feel like I've already wasted too much time on these forums. Every time I try to help it seems like either nobody cares or at least is willing to help.
This is pretty much it. If I'm going out and doing something on Dash's behalf and this is the thanks I get, and the suggestion is to vote to change the forum rules...?
ugh. Just ugh. Just like everything with this coin that had so much blown potential
I'm not going to waste time trying to fight the tide
gl all
I have 3116 posts and you have 42. Do you imagine how much time I have wasted?
The only way to expose the bad moderation that occurs in this forum occasionaly, is to vote for strict forum rules that will not give enormous moderation power to the moderators.

For example, in your case, lets vote for a forum rule that forces the moderator to preserve the deleted post by sending it to the poster as private message (so that he can repost it without the bad words) . In case the moderator deletes a post without sending a copy as private message, he is banned from the forum for 1 month.
 
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solarguy

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Mar 15, 2017
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Sadly I feel like I've already wasted too much time on these forums. Every time I try to help it seems like either nobody cares or at least is willing to help.
This is pretty much it. If I'm going out and doing something on Dash's behalf and this is the thanks I get, and the suggestion is to vote to change the forum rules...?
ugh. Just ugh. Just like everything with this coin that had so much blown potential
I'm not going to waste time trying to fight the tide
gl all
Feel free to repost, but without the vulgarity. The mod team is making a tremendous effort to be consistent. I hate to see them being faulted for both, not being consistent AND being consistent. Were you aware of the new rules, including no vulgarity? Serious question.
 
Apr 9, 2018
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Taken care of.
By removing entire informative post because of one word?
I clearly see that @HedgedAndLevered is taking efforts in benefit of Dash and I understand his frustration ("If I'm going out and doing something on Dash's behalf and this is the thanks I get"), because deleting entire post looks like ingratitude.
If his only violation was "bad words" then you can edit his post by deleting only these "bad words" and, probably, give him a warning, so he will not do it next time (and this will be good mod practice which will force users to follow the rules, make them think how to write next time, and be friendly, so they don't think you treat them like s***)

To @HedgedAndLevered: You do good things, please continue. We do care.
 

TaoOfSatoshi

Grizzled Member
Jul 15, 2014
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By removing entire informative post because of one word?
I clearly see that @HedgedAndLevered is taking efforts in benefit of Dash and I understand his frustration ("If I'm going out and doing something on Dash's behalf and this is the thanks I get"), because deleting entire post looks like ingratitude.
If his only violation was "bad words" then you can edit his post by deleting only these "bad words" and, probably, give him a warning, so he will not do it next time (and this will be good mod practice which will force users to follow the rules, make them think how to write next time, and be friendly, so they don't think you treat them like s***)

To @HedgedAndLevered: You do good things, please continue. We do care.
I reiterate, the rules are clearly posted, and will be enforced. The posts made by users dictate my actions. I have no hard feelings toward anyone, and no opinions are being censored. If someone wants their content to remain visible, I would kindly ask them to adhere to the posted rules. It’s as simple as that.
 
Apr 9, 2018
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I reiterate, the rules are clearly posted, and will be enforced. The posts made by users dictate my actions. I have no hard feelings toward anyone, and no opinions are being censored. If someone wants their content to remain visible, I would kindly ask them to adhere to the posted rules. It’s as simple as that.
I'm not talking about enforcing or not enforcing rules. I'm talking about how to enforce them softly without using a sledgehammer to crack a nut and without making people angry and frustrated like in this case (man with good intention said f it and left because of this sledgehammer-like enforcement!).
Can you at least consider the idea of editing posts with warning in cases when this is enough?
 
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TaoOfSatoshi

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I'm not talking about enforcing or not enforcing rules. I'm talking about how to enforce them softly without using a sledgehammer to crack a nut and without making people angry and frustrated like in this case (man with good intention said f it and left because of this sledgehammer-like enforcement!).
Can you at least consider the idea of editing posts with warning in cases when this is enough?
I have in fact tried this response, and ran into the same criticisms that you are offering today. You can’t please everyone, that’s the nature of the beast. As well, I do offer reasons for post deletion every time I take that action.

Moderation is a thankless job, and one I’d prefer to keep simple. If we lose a few people that can’t handle posting long messages without swearing, than so be it. This forum will be better off and present a quality of professionalism with the ones who remain, and we should attract more like-minded individuals as has already happened on Discord. I am supported by the masternode network on this way of thinking, and until that changes, I will be performing my duties as I see fit. Thank you for your feedback.
 
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