Changing the block reward allocation

[peter]

Hi,

What do you think about this decision proposal in order to decrease PoW and to increase PoS:

"Change the block reward allocation to 5% (miners) / 25% (budget) / 70% (MNs)." ?
And with an intermediate step during 10 months with 10/25/65, so that miners can better adapt to the new situation.

Here are the pros and cons, that I see:

Pros: less PoW (less energy consumption), more PoS, more budget.
Cons: some miner hardware investments cannot be amortized. (But such investments are risky anyway...)

Do you see other pros or cons?

Kind regards, Peter

Edit:
Just to be clear: This proposal is not about abandoning PoW. It’s needed in L1 and will stay as long, as L1 uses it. It’s rather about not wasting resources, that can be used elsewhere. Thanks to chainlocks, there is no more need to keep high hashrates.
And to all the MNOs, who believe "therealDashman21", who think, that I’m gaslighting, that I want to destroy Dash, that I’m promoting false narratives, that I’m an attacker and a bad actor: Just read up and reflect on this subject. I can’t help you further.

 

[qwizzie]

Previous change with regards to the Dash block reward allocation :

Governance proposal : https://www.dashcentral.org/p/TREASURY-REALLOCATION-60-20-20
Date : 2023-09-08
Change : 60% (mno) / 20% (miners) / 20% (budget)

This governance / polling proposal was initiated by DCG, because they were running out of funding and i guess they wanted to avoid having to implement a drastic reorganisation. The network ultimately supported this decision. I voted against this because i did not think this was a long term solution for DCG and thought they would be in the same situation (out of reserves and funding) a few years later and i also did not think it would lead to more budget proposal requests from people outside those that were / are already participathing in the DAO.

Jumping forward to June 2025 and DCG is still in the same dire financial situation, the doubling of the budget system from 10% to 20% did very little to longterm fix their running out of reserves problem. DCG now survive purely thanks to their monthly supplemental budget proposals (the leftover funds / unallocated funds) on top of their operations budget proposals (combined DCG claims up to 65% of the DAO budget every month i think). Also there has not been an increase in budget proposals from outside those already participathing in the Dash DAO.

OP wants to change above mentioned Dash block reward allocation to 70% (mno) / 5% (miners) / 25% (budget)

This means increasing the DAO budget once more (from 20% to 25%) --> DCG will no doubt be raising their budget proposals requested amount (both their Operational budget proposals and their Supplemental budget proposals / Leftover budget funding). I still have the same problem with that as during the last Dash block reward allocation change (when it changed from 10% to 20%), in this case it is putting a bandaid / quickfix on something that in my eyes needs a more structural longterm solution for DCG. Also take into account that the yearly -7.1% cut on Dash blockrewards will diminish the available DAO budget more and more coming years, people / businesses that are relying on the DAO do need to take that into account and need to adapt to this. So increasing the DAO budget (again !) in any way is a big no for me.

With regards to increasing the 60% to 70% (mno) : i rather have us not not mess with the Dash blockreward allocation between miners and masternodes anymore, unless it is for phasing out PoW for PoS completely with regards to the Dash Main chain. But i think that is something that needs a lot more study and investigation.

 

[GrandMasterDash]

I don't think dash should move to pure PoS, though it does appear to be on the slippery slope to do so. I'd much rather see dash drop it's ASIC friendly X11 and replace it with a random GPU friendly algo.

For allocation, can we first move voting to a second mining algo and let those lottery winners vote instead of masternodes? Can't be much worse than the current situation. I suspect things would be a lot different under those rules and we'd see allocations change dramatically.. but fat chance of that ever happening.

 

[peter]

the doubling of the budget system from 10% to 20% did very little to longterm fix their running out of reserves problem.

Why do you think that? I think, that with less budget the situation for DCG would be worse.

Also there has not been an increase in budget proposals from outside those already participathing in the Dash DAO.

Do you think, that this is related to the increase of the budget? If yes, why please?

DCG will no doubt be raising their budget proposals requested amount (both
their Operational budget proposals and their Supplemental budget proposals /
Leftover budget funding). I still have the same problem with that

I really would like to understand your problem. There are developers in DCG, who are highly motivated and working day and night. MNOs decide about their proposals. What is wrong with them please?

bandaid / quickfix on something that in my eyes needs a more structural longterm solution for DCG

What is the "something"? If you think, what DCG needs a structural longterm solution, then please describe the problem and what solution you suggest. I agree, that the organisation of DCG is certainly improvable. But I think that the main problem is, that there is a lot of work to do (development, testing, management), and that just costs money.

Also take into account that the yearly -7.1% cut on Dash blockrewards will diminish the available DAO budget more and more coming years, people / businesses that are relying on the DAO do need to take that into account and need to adapt to this.

IMO this is an argument for increasing the budget percentage. If you disagree, then please tell us why?

But i think that is something that needs a lot more study and investigation.

Indeed, that’s why I’m asking here for relevant arguments.

 

[peter]

I don't think dash should move to pure PoS,

Quite frequently people ask for more PoS and less PoW. This proposal tries to address that with almost no development efforts.

I'd much rather see dash drop it's ASIC friendly X11 and replace it with a random GPU friendly algo.

Ok, why not. But this would need development efforts. You can make a proposal for that.

 

[therealdashman21]

Quite frequently people ask for more PoS and less PoW.

Citation? Dash is a PoW coin and I've not seen anyone seriously advocate that Dash should become PoS. And people asking for things is not itself a valid justification for doing them. And neither is "lack of development efforts". Even if a bad thing "doesn't require any development effort" that doesn't mean we should do it. Its a bad thing, we shouldn't.

Ok, why not. But this would need development efforts. You can make a proposal for that.

Why are you so happy to accept Monero technology in Dash, going backwards? X11 is a unique and powerful hashing algorithm. Why are you two greasily going back and forth over a concept that should by rights be a non-starter in the Dash network? Removing Dash's unique hashing algorithm and trying to turn it into Monero is a cynical and dastardly thing to do, and you both should be ashamed for suggesting it, and removed from the network (i.e. banned from here).

 

[greatwolf]

Hi,

What do you think about this decision proposal in order to decrease PoW and to increase PoS:

"Change the block reward allocation to 5% (miners) / 25% (budget) / 70% (MNs)." ?
And with an intermediate step during 10 months with 10/25/65, so that miners can better adapt to the new situation.

Here are the pros and cons, that I see:

Pros: less PoW (less energy consumption), more PoS, more budget.
Cons: some miner hardware investments cannot be amortized. (But such investments are risky anyway...)

Do you see other pros or cons?

Kind regards, Peter

Edit:
Just to be clear: This proposal is not about abandoning PoW. It’s needed in L1 and will stay as long, as L1 uses it. It’s rather about not wasting resources, that can be used elsewhere. Thanks to chainlocks, there is no more need to keep high hashrates.
And to all the MNOs, who believe "therealDashman21", who think, that I’m gaslighting, that I want to destroy Dash, that I’m promoting false narratives, that I’m an attacker and a bad actor: Just read up and reflect on this subject. I can’t help you further.

nack from me, this does nothing to improve Dash's market cap ranking or adoption -- it's just rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic. Also at 5% PoW you're basically abandoning it without outright doing so. This also reduces stakeholder diversity.

 

[peter]

at 5% PoW you're basically abandoning it without outright doing so

Please read the update of my post.

This also reduces stakeholder diversity.

Thanks to Crowdnode the stakeholder diversity is growing anyway. And thanks to Mikhail there will be the "Dash Trustless Staking DApp".

 

[therealdashman21]

Please read the update of my post.

Thanks to Crowdnode the stakeholder diversity is growing anyway. And thanks to Mikhail there will be the "Dash Trustless Staking DApp".

Why are you ignoring my post? Do you not think its important to address the concerns of network participants? I am a masternode owner and neither you nor grandmasterdash have the right to ignore my well-founded assertions and questions. I quoted both of you and addressed your posts directly, not only is it rude for you to ignore that, but ignoring my post also indicates that you do not have the best interests of the network at heart. Please respond.