Budget System v2 / Transform PR

TheDashGuy

Well-known Member
Dec 16, 2015
1,228
1,010
183
TheDashGuy

So just to be clear, the purpose of your involvement here in Dash is NOT to profit in any way? I don't get it.
Is that even a real question?

Of course I don't mind profits, but there is two ways to get there.

This story may help you understand:

The Parable of the two Programmers
Neil W. Rickert
Dept. of Math, Stat., and Computer Science,
University of Illinois at Chicago.




Once upon a time, unbeknownst to each other, the "Automated Accounting
Applications Association" and the "Consolidated Computerized Capital Corpora-
tion" decided that they needed the identical program to perform a certain ser-
vice.

Automated hired a programmer-analyst, Alan, to solve their problem.

Meanwhile, Consolidated decided to ask a newly hired entry-level program-
mer, Charles, to tackle the job, to see if he was as good as he pretended.

Alan, having had experience in difficult programming projects, decided to
use the PQR structured design methodology. With this in mind he asked his
department manager to assign another three programmers as a programming team.
Then the team went to work, churning out preliminary reports and problem ana-
lyses.

Back at Consolidated, Charles spent some time thinking about the problem.
His fellow employees noticed that Charles often sat with his feet on the desk,
drinking coffee. He was occasionally seen at his computer terminal, but his
office mate could tell from the rhythmic striking of keys that he was actually
playing Space Invaders.

By now, the team at Automated was starting to write code. The programmers
were spending about half their time writing and compiling code, and the rest of
their time in conference, discussing the interfaces between the various modules.

His office mate noticed that Charles had finally given up on Space
Invaders. Instead he now divided his time between drinking coffee with his feet
on the table, and scribbling on little scraps of paper. His scribbling didn't
seem to be Tic Tac Toe, but it didn't exactly make much sense, either.

Two months have gone by. The team at Automated finally releases an imple-
mentation timetable. In another two months they will have a test version of the
program. Then a two month period of testing and enhancing should yield a com-
pleted version.

The manager of Charles has by now tired of seeing him goof off. He decides
to confront him. But as he walks into Charles's office, he is surprised to see
Charles busy entering code at his terminal. He decides to postpone the confron-
tation, so makes some small talk then leaves. However, he begins to keep a
closer watch on Charles, so that when the opportunity presents itself he can
confront him. Not looking forward to an unpleasant conversation, he is pleased
to notice that Charles seems to be busy most of the time. He has even been see
to delay his lunch, and to stay after work two or three days a week.

At the end of three months, Charles announces he has completed the project.
He submits a 500 line program. The program appears to be clearly written, and
when tested it does everything required in the specifications. In fact it even
has a few additional convenience features which might significantly improve the
usability of the program. The program is put into test, and, except for one
quickly corrected oversight, performs well.

The team at Automated has by now completed two of the four major modules
required for their program. These modules are now undergoing testing while the
other modules are completed.

After another three weeks, Alan announces that the preliminary version is
ready one week ahead of schedule. He supplies a list of the deficiencies that he
expects to correct. The program is placed under test. The users find a number of
bugs and deficiencies, other than those listed. As Alan explains, this is no
surprise. After all this is a preliminary version in which bugs were expected.

After about two more months, the team has completed its production version
of the program. It consists of about 2,500 lines of code. When tested it seems
to satisfy most of the original specifications. It has omitted one or two
features, and is very fussy about the format of its input data. However the
company decides to install the program. They can always train their data-entry
staff to enter data in the strict format required. The program is handed over
to some maintenance programmers to eventually incorporate the missing features.

Sequel:

At first Charles's supervisor was impressed. But as he read through the
source code, he realized that the project was really much simpler than he had
originally though. It now seemed apparent that this was not much of a challenge
even for a beginning programmer.

Charles did produce about 5 lines of code per day. This is perhaps a little
above average. However, considering the simplicity of the program, it was noth-
ing exceptional. Also his supervisor remembered his two months of goofing off.

At his next salary review Charles was given a raise which was about half
the inflation over the period. He was not given a promotion. After about a year
he became discouraged and left Consolidated.

At Automated, Alan was complimented for completing his project on schedule.
His supervisor looked over the program. With a few minutes of thumbing through
he saw that the company standards about structured programming were being
observed. He quickly gave up attempting to read the program however; it seemed
quite incomprehensible. He realized by now that the project was really much more
complex than he had originally assumed, and he congratulated Alan again on his
achievement.

The team had produced over 3 lines of code per programmer per day. This was
about average, but, considering the complexity of the problem, could be con-
sidered to be exceptional. Alan was given a hefty pay raise, and promoted to
Systems Analyst as a reward for his achievement.
 

TheDashGuy

Well-known Member
Dec 16, 2015
1,228
1,010
183
Terpin is done !
do not put words in my mouth here , I am NOT selling him at all , I am trying the mellow out this endless discussion which is going in a circle , nothing else
Noted.

Noone is accusing anyone of anything. We just keep seeing alot of back and forth about what may or may not be happening so its nice to get an official "we are no longer working with Terpin".

Thanks.
 

tungfa

Grizzled Member
Foundation Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Apr 9, 2014
8,898
6,746
1,283
Noted.

Noone is accusing anyone of anything. We just keep seeing alot of back and forth about what may or may not be happening so its nice to get an official "we are no longer working with Terpin".

Thanks.
Check the Votes :
"we are NOT working with Terpin anymore as he got voted out !"
I think that is more than clear and official if you need it !

will he be back one day ? who knows as that depends on the votes of possible future proposal (I doubt it personal as we 'beat that horse to death')
 

Jeztah

Active Member
Oct 9, 2014
181
145
103
MY $.02

We need a PR company (whoever that ends up being) to build a recognizable brand. That's what PR companies are for and that's what they do. Hiring the right one would do more for DASH than any free homegrown marketing could ever hope to achieve. Period.

You hire a company to do what you aren't a pro at because it will cost you more over time if you don't.

"If you need a machine and don’t buy it, then you will ultimately find that you have paid for it and don’t have it." - Henry Ford
 

Bridgewater

Well-known Member
Foundation Member
Dec 14, 2014
196
189
203
Is that even a real question?

Of course I don't mind profits, but there is two ways to get there.

This story may help you understand:

The Parable of the two Programmers
Neil W. Rickert
Dept. of Math, Stat., and Computer Science,
University of Illinois at Chicago.




Once upon a time, unbeknownst to each other, the "Automated Accounting
Applications Association" and the "Consolidated Computerized Capital Corpora-
tion" decided that they needed the identical program to perform a certain ser-
vice.

Automated hired a programmer-analyst, Alan, to solve their problem.

Meanwhile, Consolidated decided to ask a newly hired entry-level program-
mer, Charles, to tackle the job, to see if he was as good as he pretended.

Alan, having had experience in difficult programming projects, decided to
use the PQR structured design methodology. With this in mind he asked his
department manager to assign another three programmers as a programming team.
Then the team went to work, churning out preliminary reports and problem ana-
lyses.

Back at Consolidated, Charles spent some time thinking about the problem.
His fellow employees noticed that Charles often sat with his feet on the desk,
drinking coffee. He was occasionally seen at his computer terminal, but his
office mate could tell from the rhythmic striking of keys that he was actually
playing Space Invaders.

By now, the team at Automated was starting to write code. The programmers
were spending about half their time writing and compiling code, and the rest of
their time in conference, discussing the interfaces between the various modules.

His office mate noticed that Charles had finally given up on Space
Invaders. Instead he now divided his time between drinking coffee with his feet
on the table, and scribbling on little scraps of paper. His scribbling didn't
seem to be Tic Tac Toe, but it didn't exactly make much sense, either.

Two months have gone by. The team at Automated finally releases an imple-
mentation timetable. In another two months they will have a test version of the
program. Then a two month period of testing and enhancing should yield a com-
pleted version.

The manager of Charles has by now tired of seeing him goof off. He decides
to confront him. But as he walks into Charles's office, he is surprised to see
Charles busy entering code at his terminal. He decides to postpone the confron-
tation, so makes some small talk then leaves. However, he begins to keep a
closer watch on Charles, so that when the opportunity presents itself he can
confront him. Not looking forward to an unpleasant conversation, he is pleased
to notice that Charles seems to be busy most of the time. He has even been see
to delay his lunch, and to stay after work two or three days a week.

At the end of three months, Charles announces he has completed the project.
He submits a 500 line program. The program appears to be clearly written, and
when tested it does everything required in the specifications. In fact it even
has a few additional convenience features which might significantly improve the
usability of the program. The program is put into test, and, except for one
quickly corrected oversight, performs well.

The team at Automated has by now completed two of the four major modules
required for their program. These modules are now undergoing testing while the
other modules are completed.

After another three weeks, Alan announces that the preliminary version is
ready one week ahead of schedule. He supplies a list of the deficiencies that he
expects to correct. The program is placed under test. The users find a number of
bugs and deficiencies, other than those listed. As Alan explains, this is no
surprise. After all this is a preliminary version in which bugs were expected.

After about two more months, the team has completed its production version
of the program. It consists of about 2,500 lines of code. When tested it seems
to satisfy most of the original specifications. It has omitted one or two
features, and is very fussy about the format of its input data. However the
company decides to install the program. They can always train their data-entry
staff to enter data in the strict format required. The program is handed over
to some maintenance programmers to eventually incorporate the missing features.

Sequel:

At first Charles's supervisor was impressed. But as he read through the
source code, he realized that the project was really much simpler than he had
originally though. It now seemed apparent that this was not much of a challenge
even for a beginning programmer.

Charles did produce about 5 lines of code per day. This is perhaps a little
above average. However, considering the simplicity of the program, it was noth-
ing exceptional. Also his supervisor remembered his two months of goofing off.

At his next salary review Charles was given a raise which was about half
the inflation over the period. He was not given a promotion. After about a year
he became discouraged and left Consolidated.

At Automated, Alan was complimented for completing his project on schedule.
His supervisor looked over the program. With a few minutes of thumbing through
he saw that the company standards about structured programming were being
observed. He quickly gave up attempting to read the program however; it seemed
quite incomprehensible. He realized by now that the project was really much more
complex than he had originally assumed, and he congratulated Alan again on his
achievement.

The team had produced over 3 lines of code per programmer per day. This was
about average, but, considering the complexity of the problem, could be con-
sidered to be exceptional. Alan was given a hefty pay raise, and promoted to
Systems Analyst as a reward for his achievement.
Good story (reminds me of the Dilbert comics). I assume your assertion is that TPR is like Alan, whereas a cheap unknown PR contractor is like Charles?

If you stand by your parable, shouldn't you have waited for the final product to pass judgement, then? How do you know that TPR is not like Charles, and you just got distracted by his questionable reputation and/or tactics?
 
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TheDashGuy

Well-known Member
Dec 16, 2015
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Good story (reminds me of the Dilbert comics). I assume your assertion is that TPR is like Alan, whereas a cheap unknown PR contractor is like Charles?

If you stand by your parable, shouldn't you have waited for the final product to pass judgement, then? How do you know that TPR is not like Charles, and you just got distracted by his questionable reputation and/or tactics?

Yep and thats a great point. Maybe I could have waited until they have all of our money and then raise a shit storm, but what good would that have done when i already see where this is going? We can't keep our budget money safe from them after they've weaseled us out of the funds, only before.

I have been doing marketing for a very long time, I know a car salesman when I see one. They would have throw sooooo much data in our faces if they were legit. But here we are, without analytics still. :p

Anyways, tungfa wants this conversation killed for reasons I agree with. So lets pick it back up if Terpin rears his head around here again. By then hopefully we'll have a more viable alternative as well.
 

Solarminer

Well-known Member
Apr 4, 2015
762
922
163
Fair questions on Terpin vs PR....Can we get back to the budget please? I suggest any further discussion about PR comes in a new thread....or join us on the "Dash Chat" slack where we are discussing a lot of helpful marketing and other interesting ideas https://dashchat.herokuapp.com/. (This is not the original "Dash" Slack targeted more for the official development team)

I think this is the list of options that people are proposing:

Irrevocable Contract Payments
Set contracts with a high limit for a yes vote. No way to stop payment. Example 30% yes to fund.

Contracts with a way to cancel.
Encourages the vendor to provide a high level of service because it is possible to hold payment for lack of performance. Large amount no votes to cancel a contract....not just 1 less yes vote than the threshold today. Example 30% yes to fund, 30% no to defund.

Contracts based on Fiat Value
Set contracts based on set dash amount, but the term of the contract changes based on fiat price. So if fiat price is higher, the contract will end sooner. Example 30% yes to fund, stop at $1000 in Dash. $ payout calculated each month and totaled based on $/dash * dash paid + $ already paid.

No contracts
Dash/Fiat is too volatile. We don't want to lock up a large portion of funds that could be worth more in the future or that we need more of if worth less.
 
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TheDashGuy

Well-known Member
Dec 16, 2015
1,228
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183
Fair questions on Terpin vs PR....Can we get back to the budget please? I suggest any further discussion about PR comes in a new thread....or join us on the "Dash Chat" slack where we are discussing a lot of helpful marketing and other interesting ideas https://dashchat.herokuapp.com/. (This is not the original "Dash" Slack targeted more for the official development team)

I think this is the list of options that people are proposing:

Irrevocable Contract Payments
Set contracts with a high limit for a yes vote. No way to stop payment. Example 30% yes to fund.

Contracts with a way to cancel.
Encourages the vendor to provide a high level of service because it is possible to hold payment for lack of performance. Large amount no votes to cancel a contract....not just 1 less yes vote than the threshold today. Example 30% yes to fund, 30% no to defund.

Contracts based on Fiat Value
Set contracts based on set dash amount, but the term of the contract changes based on fiat price. So if fiat price is higher, the contract will end sooner. Example 30% yes to fund, stop at $1000 in Dash. $ payout calculated each month and totaled based on $/dash * dash paid + $ already paid.

No contracts
Dash/Fiat is too volatile. We don't want to lock up a large portion of funds that could be worth more in the future or that we need more of if worth less.
I prefer to call it our little "Public Dash Slack Project" or if we wanna add some cool kid factor we could just call it PDSP and be done with it!

And yes, please have a cancel mechanism in the contracts. Otherwise most 3rd vendors will most definitely be taking us for quite a ride.
 

Jeztah

Active Member
Oct 9, 2014
181
145
103
I prefer to call it our little "Public Dash Slack Project" or if we wanna add some cool kid factor we could just call it PDSP and be done with it!

And yes, please have a cancel mechanism in the contracts. Otherwise most 3rd vendors will most definitely be taking us for quite a ride.
Who do you define as "us"?
 

stan.distortion

Well-known Member
Oct 30, 2014
959
585
163
Who do you define as "us"?
Yeah, that kind of marketing...

It could be something worth considering for the way budgets are proposed, at the mo someone offers to do something and its put to a vote to decide if we want them to do it but as the budget gets tighter it'll become a more competitive environment where several may offer to do the same service. It could be worth coming from it at a different angle, identifying things that need doing and voting between candidates for doing it, like tendering for contracts. That could make the "us" and "them" a lot clearer.
 
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bertlebbert

Active Member
Jul 17, 2014
670
289
133
Contracts:

These will be an extended version of a proposal, with a minimum voting period of 30 days. During this period of time, an actual, legally binding contract between the vendor (promisor) and a network representative (promisee) should be evaluated. The promisee can be any legal entity which will act as the networks representative (legal firm, foundation, natural person, etc).

After the voting period (minimum of 30 days) has expired, any contracts which have been approved by the necessary number of votes will be paid until their expiration. Contracts, due to their legally binding nature, will be given priority for funding in the new budget system. Regular proposals will be funded by the system after funding is given to contracts.

I propose that the new contract system have a significantly higher voting threshold than ordinary proposals:

3-month contracts must be voted on by at least 20% of the masternode network.
6-month contracts must be voted on by at least 33% of the masternode network.
12-month contracts must be voted on by at least 51% of the masternode network.

Once these minimum voting thresholds are met, contracts will be considered “passed” if at least 51% of the votes cast are “yes” votes.

That will actually make it easier to pass contract proposals than regular proposals.
Based on 3500 MNs, minimum yes votes required for proposal to pass would be as follows:

20% voting participation requires 700 total votes.
3-month contract wins with 357 Yes / 343 No.
Regular proposal wins with 525 Yes / 175 No.

33% voting participation requires 1155 total votes.
6-month contract wins with 589 Yes / 566 No.
Regular proposal wins with 753 Yes / 402 No.

51% voting participation requires 1785 total votes.
12-month contract wins with 911 Yes / 874 No.
Regular proposal wins with 1068 Yes / 717 No.

Maybe contracts should be passed if something higher than 51% of votes cast are “yes” votes,
or maybe contracts should require 10% "Net" votes just the same as regular proposals do.


* Over past few months, essentially all proposals, excluding those cancelled, had at least 20% voter participation.
 
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TroyDASH

Well-known Member
Jul 31, 2015
1,254
797
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I think voter participation is less of an issue than the ratio of yes to no votes. If something ends up passing because too many masternode operators didn't care enough about it to vote it down, then maybe something like that should pass even with low participation. What I don't like though especially for long term contracts, is after the contract is approved, having it be able to be cancelled if just 1 vote changes its mind. That kind of thing isn't good.
 
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bertlebbert

Active Member
Jul 17, 2014
670
289
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...
What I don't like though especially for long term contracts, is after the contract is approved, having it be able to be cancelled if just 1 vote changes its mind. That kind of thing isn't good.
I believe the thinking is that once a contract proposal is approved, the vote results are done with; there is then a working contract revocable only if a new proposal is presented and successfully voted upon to overturn it.

Questions about such an 'over-turning' proposal: circumstances when it could be proposed, by whom, what would be the voting window, voting threshold for it to pass, etc...
 

TroyDASH

Well-known Member
Jul 31, 2015
1,254
797
183
I believe the thinking is that once a contract proposal is approved, the vote results are done with; there is then a working contract revocable only if a new proposal is presented and successfully voted upon to overturn it.

Questions about such an 'over-turning' proposal: circumstances when it could be proposed, by whom, what would be the voting window, voting threshold for it to pass, etc...
Oh, well I think we have the same idea then, it's more of a technicality whether the new criteria has to be met under the existing proposal or a new one. Although, why should someone have to pay a fee to submit a new proposal to de-fund something when they are not lobbying for a budget item of their own?
 
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greensheep

New Member
Jan 3, 2016
19
19
3
That will actually make it easier to pass contract proposals than regular proposals.
Based on 3500 MNs, minimum yes votes required for proposal to pass would be as follows:

20% voting participation requires 700 total votes.
3-month contract wins with 357 Yes / 343 No.
Regular proposal wins with 525 Yes / 175 No.

33% voting participation requires 1155 total votes.
6-month contract wins with 589 Yes / 566 No.
Regular proposal wins with 753 Yes / 402 No.

51% voting participation requires 1785 total votes.
12-month contract wins with 911 Yes / 874 No.
Regular proposal wins with 1068 Yes / 717 No.

Maybe contracts should be passed if something higher than 51% of votes cast are “yes” votes,
or maybe contracts should require 10% "Net" votes just the same as regular proposals do.


* Over past few months, essentially all proposals, excluding those cancelled, had at least 20% voter participation.
As contracts ultimately compete with non-contract budget proposal, and have preference over them, I think this is wrong. Contracts should never require less 'yes' votes than normal votes. eduffield any comment on this?
 

BenTucker

Member
Mar 12, 2015
42
41
58
From a risk management point of view, you'd want all contracts to be able to be canceled. The shorter the duration, and lower the value of it, the less this is important however. As duration and value of the contract rises, the need for an option to cancel rises.

For example, you may choose a very high threshold, or none at all, to cancel a short term, low value contract of $300 (or the Dash equivalent) paid over three monthly installments. We can explore both options by saying in scenario one, this contract is not able to be canceled at all (not my recommendation), or in scenario two make the threshold to cancel extremely high (like say 90% of MNs agreeing or whatever - you guys can extrapolate this for how many need to vote, and what percentage you need agreement from based on how many vote).

For high value, long term contracts we can use the example of $30,000 (or equivalent) paid over 12 monthly installments. In this case you might make the cancellation threshold only 80% of MNs or whatever. (These are entirely arbitrary numbers for the sake of examples.)

The point is, the higher the value, the lower the (still high) threshold should be to cancel it. That is the most important variable; total value. But a long term contract is more risky, obviously, than a shorter term contract of an equal value, because of the odds growing someone might stop working, die, be arrested, lose their mind, or who the heck knows. So the time the contract takes to be executed is also a factor in deciding the threshold, but not as important as value.

Simply put, I'd weigh value as 2-4 times more important than duration, but both would be variables to plug into a quick equation to decide the threshold for cancellation. The higher the value and duration the lower the threshold for cancellation. And again, you guys can also figure in the amount of MNs needed to vote on it at minimum based on that equation's result.

This would make the "system" of contract cancellation scale in the future as Dash grows and contracts become of higher and higher value, and of longer and longer duration. It would also inspire confidence in the "system" itself. Lastly, it would manage risk for the community.

Thanks for letting me waste some more of your very valuable time. :)
 

michaelterpin

New Member
Feb 18, 2016
11
23
3
Las Vegas, NV
Hi, I’m Michael Terpin from Transform PR. Ask Me Anything.

There’s an old adage in social media: “don’t feed the trolls, they’ll only grow larger.” However, since I am a member of the Dash-holding community (I’ve owned Dash for more than a year prior to my involvement with what was supposed to be a three-month PR campaign), I feel like I should join this forum, clarify any questions, and debunk some of the ridiculous assumptions about what PR is or isn’t and how my company and I personally do business.

I’m making this a one-time dump that will hopefully shed light on both legitimate questions as well as baseless, evidence-free attacks. I’m also happy to answer further questions – in public and/or for those who don’t wish to reveal your alleged sources, you can reach me at michael at transform dot pr (I had a few links in this post, but I apparently can't post them on this forum until I've been a member a little longer - so where I had a link to prove a statement, for right now I'll just have to say LINK - and I can repost when I'm allowed links in this forum). I feel the first month of what was envisioned to be a three-month campaign went well, as did Evan, Daniel and others on the ground in Miami. No, it didn’t result in an immediate front-page story in the New York Times, but we did get a fair amount of positive media coverage in crypto press (with a corresponding lift in the price of Dash, which we can’t take full credit for, but you’ll notice the price has fallen since Dash has gone back into quiet mode). We also began conversations with a number of mainstream media, including an interview with Reuters.

While I’d like to not make a full-time career out of defending myself for what both I and the Dash leadership team feel has been a good start. I’ll try to lump my data dump into the most frequent questions and answer them within a reasonable time of posting.

How did I meet Evan and how did the conversation about PR arise?
This relationship didn’t start with me “wining and dining” the Dash team. I was a speaker at LaBitConf, where we also provided the PR for the past two conferences – and they’ve already renewed for a third year (I’m happy to provide references to the show producers, who are happy with our work). I met Evan and Daniel briefly during the conference, then we ended up sharing a ride to the airport (and Evan and I happened to then be on the same flight back to the West Coast), where Evan and Daniel proactively asked my advice on what PR opportunities I thought Dash had and how we would go about working with them. Evan later came back and asked me to take that brainstorm and put it into a proposal form. If the proposal was approved through the decentralized governance vote we were to be paid completely in Dash – and, no, I didn’t immediately go out and sell it for USD or bitcoins, even as the price went up during the conference. I’m a believer that Dash is a hugely underappreciated digital asset and I plan on hosting at least one Master Node in the near future (probably within the week).

What does a PR firm do and why is Transform PR well suited to the task
There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about what a PR firm does and the nature of why one would even want to engage in public relations (technically, it’s the media relations component of PR we’ve been discussing). First, we don’t sell keywords and that’s nowhere in our proposal. We also don’t bribe journalists; we don’t run Google AdWords; we don’t simply run press releases – pretty much every assumption made in this forum by people who don’t know what PR is was laughably incorrect. As the most prominent PR firm in the crypto space (we’ve worked with more than 50 entities ranging from venture-backed large companies like Gyft, KnCMiner and Kraken to decentralized organizations including LaZooz, where we generated two Wall Street Journal articles (LINK) in our first two months, to Augur, where we secured coverage in publications ranging from Politico to Bloomberg to VentureBeat) - (LINKS), we don’t hit a home run the first month on every account, but contrary to the innuendo in some of the posts, we have achieved outstanding results for the majority of companies who have used us on an ongong basis – and even some of the shorter campaigns where there was good news value. I’m happy to post a summary of the dozens of mainstream media articles we generated for clients including Counterparty, LaZooz, Mastercoin, MaidSafe, Neucoin,

Is public relations the same as a press release and why can’t anyone do that?
A press release issued on a newswire is not the same as a media relations campaign aimed at editorial coverage. Yes, there are paid services as low as $200 where you can write anything you want and it shows up on Google and Yahoo – of course, this forum also shows up on Google, but it doesn’t have much context or many views and the same is true of the huge bucket of press releases distributed on newswires every month (more than 20,000 per month across the top newswires, far more if you include the free newswires and press releases issued from Twitter feeds and blog posts). Dash had put out press releases on newswires in the past – it doesn’t get the same kind of traction as editorial coverage – someone had noted that one of the CoinTelegraph articles “only” had a few hundred retweets – the typical press release distributed on PR Newswire/PR Web (same owner), Business Wire or Marketwired (the big three) get a handful of retweets at best, generally from those putting out the release.

And it’s misleading to confuse when newswire says they are distributed to Reuters (which shows up on an invisible “vanity” page that one actually search for as it’s not visible from any menu) vs. the huge impact of having an editorial story in Reuters, as we most recently did for our client, Halsey Minor a few weeks ago for his VR company, Reality Lab. How do I know so much about newswires? I started Marketwired (LINK to Wikipedia entry for "Marketwired") (more on that below).

What is Transform Group and who is Michael Terpin?
Transform Group is my closely-held company, based in Las Vegas, with a 2500 sq ft office in Santa Monica and smaller presences in the Bay Area and East Coast. We are not just five people – that’s the team active on the Dash account. We currently have 11 full-time employees and nine contractors. This makes us a mid-sized firm; my last PR firm, The Terpin Group, grew to 30 people before I sold it; Marketwire was 135 people when it was acquired. I have another half dozen people reporting to me at Marketeeria, which is a platform I’m incubating out of Las Vegas, and I have a few other initiatives in the crypto space, namely my incubator, bCommerce Labs, and the angel group I started three years ago, BitAngels.

I’m not going to apologize for being a busy, serial entrepreneur. I sold my first PR firm, The Terpin Group, to concentrate on building out Marketwire, which I had started a few years prior in the back of my PR firm, was backed by Sequoia Capital and Hummer Winblad, and we sold in 2006 for $35 million. NASDAQ recently bought it for more than $200 million. I started what became Transform Group (originally called SocialRadius, which is now our social media group) in 2006 when I sold Marketwire (the new owners changed the name to “Marketwired” – to show how “wired” they are – which I still think is a stupid name).

I’ve worked with more than 1,000 companies as PR clients over the past 25 years, including the launch of Motley Fool and Earthlink at Terpin Group, to our current slate of bitcoin, blockchain, enterprise software, VR, mobile, ad-tech and gaming companies. While my personal passion and focus is on crypto companies, our largest clients are non-crypto, including Philips, who we’ve worked with for the past decade, Marriott, and a number of enterprise software companies – all of whom pay substantially higher retainers than our proposal for Dash, are happy with our work and we only have to deal with occasional middle-management politics, not trolls in chat rooms…

In Summary…
Public relations is a $13.5 billion industry, according to the Holmes Report (LINK) – and that’s just agency revenues, so it doesn’t include freelance and in-house PR. PR is not a sketchy, scammy thing and it’s practiced by the majority of tech startups and larger tech companies worldwide. I believe Evan will resubmit our three-month proposal – and I realize that the current system only allows for one-month automated payments, but as one other poster had noted, it will be a good development when the decentralized governance is able to mimic contractual law. In the meantime, I’m willing to play by the rules of the community.

I’m happy to answer any other questions.
 

stan.distortion

Well-known Member
Oct 30, 2014
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Welcome to the forum Michael. Something I'm curious about, have you or any of the companies you've been associated with ever slandered or otherwise attempted to discredit competing PR firms or competitors of your clients as part of a PR campaign and is that kind of thing common in the PR industry?
That's not a loaded question btw, its the last part I'm really interested in. Cheers and good luck with the next proposal.
 

yidakee

Well-known Member
Foundation Member
Apr 16, 2014
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michaelterpin

Welcome to the forum! Thank you very much for that. I know this is beneath any serious business man (to come and "have" to defend himself against unfounded childish accusations) - so personally I very much appreciate your words. I hope this somehow appeases those who were caught in the "drama" and couldn't make sense of things.

The truth is that the crypto-sphere is packed full of lies, disinformation and blatant trolling. I also believe many were not ill intent, they just were very passionately vocal to defend Dash from information they attained elsewhere.

I hope everyone out there will appreciate your gesture, and honestly hope nay-sayers or those in doubt retribute in the same up-front manner, so we can sensibly debate (if needed) any issue and put this soap opera behind us, move one, and build a stronger future together!

.
 

InTheWoods

Well-known Member
Foundation Member
Oct 12, 2014
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Not much to debate here. Obviously Transform PR wants this bad enough to come here and call those who think his PR is ineffective a troll/trolls. I believe that was his opening statement.

I didn't appreciate taking so much credit for the price rise when we've already dissected the Transform PR report and the results were rather poor. I also don't appreciate the statement that Dash price went down due to a lack of active Transform PR. Most of the cryptos went down lately with some exceptions that are easy to explain.

No Micheal, those who didn't like the results of your 1 month of PR are not trolls. We simply think we can get better value for the money. I appreciate that you've created a Dash forum account.

TheDailyDecrypt and JuanSGalt have had forum accounts for a while now and have engaged the community on a number of issues. You have only come here when your contract was in danger.

One of TheDailyDecrypt decrypt videos had over 20k views and we've spent $350 for her to put up some Dash videos, and that was just one of the many videos she did, just to put things in perspective.

So far both Daily Decrypt and Juan have proved to be more cost effective that the Transform PR articles, many of whom were featured on low profile websites aside from that one Cointelegraph article.
 

Solarminer

Well-known Member
Apr 4, 2015
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Michael,
I appreciate you joining us here at Dashtalk and your effort to help.

I would suggest you create a new thread and form a new proposal that addresses the weak points from your last campaign. I am not saying your campaign wasn't effective, but it was very difficult to prove effectiveness. I think a new proposal should specifically focus on proving the results from your campaign. This means actual clicks to dash.org, actual google analytics data, search engine traffic data, ad placement views, ad hits, actual metrics that can back up your work.

All,
This thread is about the budget system changes, I suggest we keep the discussion on topic.
 

michaelterpin

New Member
Feb 18, 2016
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Las Vegas, NV
Welcome to the forum Michael. Something I'm curious about, have you or any of the companies you've been associated with ever slandered or otherwise attempted to discredit competing PR firms or competitors of your clients as part of a PR campaign and is that kind of thing common in the PR industry?
That's not a loaded question btw, its the last part I'm really interested in. Cheers and good luck with the next proposal.
Hi Stan - and thank you for the welcome note.

I've never slandered a competitor (we really don't have many direct competitors in the crypto space and when asked about them I'll try to point out factual differences in terms of experience, but I would never do so proactively or in a way that would be public or in any way considered slander). First, it can be deemed illegal (although prosecution has to show intent, damage and willfulness); second, it's generally immoral; third, it's simply bad business and ineffective. The closest parallel case I can think of is where Facebook hired a large PR firm to pitch negative stories about Google - (CAN'T POST THE LINK BECAUSE OF FORUM RULES ABOUT NEW MEMBERS, BUT YOU CAN GOOGLE IT FROM 2011) - and they were humiliated when this came to light.
 
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michaelterpin

New Member
Feb 18, 2016
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InTheWoods - I propose to use this to clarify all the doubts you have had about this project. It would be better to ask instead of judging.
I think it is quite unique opportunity to have everything clarified.
Thanks, kot. InTheWoods, I am also a fan of Amanda's - and we provide her with interviews for her editorial needs on a regular basis. Most publications have both editorial and advertising - the advertising pays the bills (and Amanda's rates are extremely reasonable) but most people don't read blogs or podcasts that are only advertising and no editorial. Over time, most companies/organizations/entities find the right mix of what's often referred to in buckets as "earned media" (PR is in this bucket, as is SEO and anything else where the skill of the practitioner has an effect on the result, ergo "earning" additional views that were not there beforehand), "owned media" (one's own website, blog and anything else where it's largely in your control; social media is a hybrid, since the poster controls only the initial content but can earn a good, bad or indifferent response), and "paid media" (advertising and sponsorship). It's been my experience that in the life of most companies/groups, they start with owned, then experiment with earned, then finally layer in paid. It's completely up to the community here what the mix is and who to use.
 

David

Well-known Member
Jun 21, 2014
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Hi, I’m Michael Terpin from Transform PR. Ask Me Anything.

We also began conversations with a number of mainstream media, including an interview with Reuters.

I’m happy to answer any other questions.
Michael, welcome!

Could I ask what ended up happening with Reuters? Is there any chance that they might publish something, or did the plug get pulled before things solidified? If so, do you think they might follow up and publish anyway, on their own initiative?
 

michaelterpin

New Member
Feb 18, 2016
11
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Las Vegas, NV
We set up a number of interviews with journalists attending the conference (we also do the PR for the conference, so we had the earliest access to the media and were often the ones who invited them in the first place). Two in-person interviews we set up that did not immediately lead to stories were with Reuters and with CoinDesk. Typically, those require follow-up to nurse through completion, particularly if they're more broad-ranging features and not breaking news. Evan is free to follow up with both reporters on his own, as is anyone else he appoints to handle this. If we were to return as agency of record, this is naturally something we'd hop on right away. This is the main reason multiple-month (sometimes annual) retainers are common in the agency world - it assures continuity as well as predictable budgeting.

Michael
 
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Solarminer

Well-known Member
Apr 4, 2015
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Michael,
I understand that you have experience in the crypto space and that there are plenty of anecdotes you can give us. Keep in mind that the masternodes are smart group of investors with superior swarm intelligence. Many of these investors own companies and have hired PR firms that are not effective. They have also used PR firms that know internet tools like the back of their hand and give lots of useful metrics.

Again, I will suggest that you regroup and put together a better proposal. Give some real metrics of how you can prove what you are doing is effective. Post that proposal in a new thread and let us ask questions and help you get to a proposal that works.
 
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michaelterpin

New Member
Feb 18, 2016
11
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Las Vegas, NV
Solarminer, "superior swarm intelligence" requires more than just raw number of people - and the last time you used that phrase was to congratulate yourself on allegedly catching me in a lie because you (and your swarm, which from what I can tell does not represent the majority of this forum) confused circulation of publications with actual views on a story (which, as I've noted, is a number not shared by the publications), a discrepancy corrected by @jetzah.

It's also a logical fallacy that if some of your members have hired PR firms that were ineffective, therefore all PR firms must be ineffective. I've gotten sick a few times on Indian food; does that mean all Indian food will make everyone sick at all times? I'm afraid you're still confusing what media relations firms (including ours) do with what digital marketing/SEO firms do. Feel free to solicit a proposal from an SEO/SEM firm, but the metrics are quite simply different. If we are allowed access to the Dash Google Analytics, that will help show some cause and effect between a story placement and a spike in traffic. But as the extensive argument trail over what caused price to rise during the campaign demonstrated, there were a dozen other possible explanations and no conclusive proof for any argument. Evan already has our new three-month proposal, which I will let him post and be on the ready to answer questions. Just know that there's no PR firm in the world that can give you before-the-fact analytics of which reporter is going to run which story and what the impact will be. If you want to stay with utterly provable scenarios, you should limit your entire marketing to PPC ads - and even then, you'll not be able to tell if they led to anything beyond the click unless you have a way tracing the click all the way to the purchase of DASH on an exchange.

Michael


Michael,
I understand that you have experience in the crypto space and that there are plenty of anecdotes you can give us. Keep in mind that the masternodes are smart group of investors with superior swarm intelligence. Many of these investors own companies and have hired PR firms that are not effective. They have also used PR firms that know internet tools like the back of their hand and give lots of useful metrics.

Again, I will suggest that you regroup and put together a better proposal. Give some real metrics of how you can prove what you are doing is effective. Post that proposal in a new thread and let us ask questions and help you get to a proposal that works.
 
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buster

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welp considering this thread got derailed I guess I'll role with it.

Michael, I've seen the metrics you provided questioned by very trusted community members who have been here a long time and whose word I would trust over an outside PR firm's any day (no offense to you or anyone in your profession). It's best to answer straight and not beat around any bushes because we are a vigilant bunch and brushing aside our concerns with fancy words and lingo will do no good. Basically a budget that can buy us Amanda, Juan + bunch of other stuff was wasted on what exactly? bunch of zero comment articles and this one cointelegraph article that wasn't even that popular. Not even coindesk? The prime source of crypto news? Cointelegraph is 2nd best but we've been getting covered there for quite some time already?
article from 12-14-14
article from 10-6-14
article from 10-11-14
A whole list of more coin telegraph articles about darkcoin
More from coin telegraph on DASH

I mean you no disrespect kind sir. If you are planning another proposal please do your best to outline the metrics you will provide to the people voting in your proposal. Thank you.
 

David

Well-known Member
Jun 21, 2014
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Michael,
I understand that you have experience in the crypto space and that there are plenty of anecdotes you can give us. Keep in mind that the masternodes are smart group of investors with superior swarm intelligence. Many of these investors own companies and have hired PR firms that are not effective. They have also used PR firms that know internet tools like the back of their hand and give lots of useful metrics.

Again, I will suggest that you regroup and put together a better proposal. Give some real metrics of how you can prove what you are doing is effective. Post that proposal in a new thread and let us ask questions and help you get to a proposal that works.
It's helpful to remember that the proposal was passing with 75% approval after otoh changed his votes. The only reason it wasn't funded was because Evan recognized a flaw on the budget system and asked otoh to change his votes back.

So for the record, the only reason Michael isn't working with us this minute is because of a flawed budget system, NOT because of lack of support from the community.