Budget Proposal: The Instantx Soda Machine!

TanteStefana

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Can the design on the front also have a section on instructions?

Also, have you checked to make sure the convention center will allow you to put that machine inside? It might be a good idea to check. They may have contracts with vendors. Call it a demo ;P

I suspect these boys will keep the machine after, but if they do, they should promise to continue working on the programming until it can do all the things any store would need it to do. Like refund, change, etc...how to keep it from overcharging....

Can it be made to receive totals from the cash register? If you boys could also figure out how to make it work for a gas station, I can't help it Camo, you put that in my head and it's just too perfect to demonstrate how Dash is exactly like cash, so if you could finish the project off to make it functional for a gas station, then get a station to install it, that would be super awesome too :D
 
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Solarminer

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Translation please
- what are we doing with the machine after ?
Camosoul is near Miami...near enough anyway. He can store it for now. Maybe it will have a desire to visit anarchopolco....who knows. We have considered a few areas to target and leave setup, but this isn't really to make money selling soda - it is to promote dash.
- converting paper wallets into Mobile might sound easier than done (i believe, never tried)
Capturing funds from paper wallets is easy. Scan sweep done. You do need to wait 6 confirms before you can instantx. But this isn't a 30 minute conference so that shouldn't be a problem.
do a Marijuana Vending Machine (huge money in that) and launch that on Porkfest or one of the 'left wing/altenetive' festivals in the US
that would really attract a new crowd and none Crypto People !
just my 2 Duffs :rolleyes:
More like just 2 puffs....
Although, the functionality is similar, out goal is to show off the technology.....not showing how we can get around legislation. The farther we are away from drugs, the less ammo the press will have against us.

I will be going down and helping Camosoul get the machine setup. White glove treatment as they say. We will be at the show to babysit wallets and refill as needed, but honestly 200+ cans is a lot.
 
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tungfa

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Can it be made to receive totals from the cash register? If you boys could also figure out how to make it work for a gas station, I can't help it Camo, you put that in my head and it's just too perfect to demonstrate how Dash is exactly like cash, so if you could finish the project off to make it functional for a gas station, then get a station to install it, that would be super awesome too :D
For the conference i understand Dash only
but if you are talking general use, i have to say BTC + Dash is the way forward for now !
(Same as lamassu, OB ideas, ..... Dash only will bring you very very low volume and use/ outside the conference)
 
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TanteStefana

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For the conference i understand Dash only
but if you are talking general use, i have to say BTC + Dash is the way forward for now !
(Same as lamassu, OB ideas, ..... Dash only will bring you very very low volume and use/ outside the conference)
I don't see how you can make anything like this for Bitcoin, unless you accept confirmation-less transactions. But I would think anything that they create could be simplified for Bitcoin (non-instantX)

Actually, I don't think you could pay for gas at a gas station with Bitcoin ever. The idea is that you over pay, because you don't know how much it'll take to fill the tank, then when you're finished, the station automatically returns the change.

If it were Bitcoin, not only will they not have gotten any confirmations, they would be risking more funds to send you "change" presumably from their own wallet. I think that's just too much risk to take on, especially since gasoline isn't cheap, like a cup of coffee, which is more where you'll find people accepting confirmation-less transactions.
 

oaxaca

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Capturing funds from paper wallets is easy. Scan sweep done. You do need to wait 6 confirms before you can instantx.
Actually, the paper wallet has funds that are already confirmed. It is not a send/receive transaction. It's a load. The "victim" simply loads the address in their wallet and can instantx for a soda right away.

or am I wrong?
 
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Solarminer

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Can the design on the front also have a section on instructions?

Also, have you checked to make sure the convention center will allow you to put that machine inside? It might be a good idea to check. They may have contracts with vendors. Call it a demo ;P

I suspect these boys will keep the machine after, but if they do, they should promise to continue working on the programming until it can do all the things any store would need it to do. Like refund, change, etc...how to keep it from overcharging....

Can it be made to receive totals from the cash register? If you boys could also figure out how to make it work for a gas station, I can't help it Camo, you put that in my head and it's just too perfect to demonstrate how Dash is exactly like cash, so if you could finish the project off to make it functional for a gas station, then get a station to install it, that would be super awesome too :D
This all started when I offered to make a deal with Camosoul to build the gas station demo. I was going to get a software developer to help out, we would submit a budget for that that, and then roll out the hardware. We settled on a vending machine to reduce the risk if we had a glitch. Plus a vending machine is like a bilboard and it is easy to show off.

It turned out that moocowmoo was a rockstar and went to town helping us out. The 25 pages of camo and I pulling our hair out and figuring how to do it, transformed with some moocowmoo magic into a few elegant scripts. The scripts can already do what a merchant needs - like a credit card machine. Return under amounts, refund over amounts, accept IX. There are a few bugs, but all should be fixed. The QR code already tells your wallet what to pay, there won't be a reason to not pay that amount. But for the 'testers' that change the amount, they will not be able to fool our machine either.

Gas station changes need additional communication with the pump. There is also a wifi terminal to connect to and wallet integrations that are more advanced. We need a pretty involved partner to make this happen. The vending machine will show them how it can be done and give them confidence we can do it.
 

Solarminer

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Actually, the paper wallet has funds that are already confirmed. It is not a send/receive transaction. It's a load. The "victim" simply loads the address in their wallet and can instantx for a soda right away.

or am I wrong?
If an android wallet would import private keys, this would be the case. The one we have sweeps(sends all funds). So yeah 6x wait. Even an ix from another wallet will require a 6x wait before those funds can be IXd again.
 

TanteStefana

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For the conference i understand Dash only
but if you are talking general use, i have to say BTC + Dash is the way forward for now !
(Same as lamassu, OB ideas, ..... Dash only will bring you very very low volume and use/ outside the conference)
I don't see how you can make anything like this for Bitcoin, unless you accept confirmation-less transactions. But I would think anything that they create could be simplified for Bitcoin (non-instantX)
This all started when I offered to make a deal with Camosoul to build the gas station demo. I was going to get a software developer to help out, we would submit a budget for that that, and then roll out the hardware. We settled on a vending machine to reduce the risk if we had a glitch. Plus a vending machine is like a bilboard and it is easy to show off.

It turned out that moocowmoo was a rockstar and went to town helping us out. The 25 pages of camo and I pulling our hair out and figuring how to do it, transformed with some moocowmoo magic into a few elegant scripts. The scripts can already do what a merchant needs - like a credit card machine. Return under amounts, refund over amounts, accept IX. There are a few bugs, but all should be fixed. The QR code already tells your wallet what to pay, there won't be a reason to not pay that amount. But for the 'testers' that change the amount, they will not be able to fool our machine either.

Gas station changes need additional communication with the pump. There is also a wifi terminal to connect to and wallet integrations that are more advanced. We need a pretty involved partner to make this happen. The vending machine will show them how it can be done and give them confidence we can do it.
Like I said, this was an excellent project, so excited for it you sneaky boys! LOL
 

oaxaca

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The whole point of this exercise is to demonstrate what bitcoin (and bitclones) CANNOT do. It puts that concept right up in your face (and down your throat for reinforcement). At this stage of DASH's life, bitcoin is the enemy to be targeted. We're not here to help them.
 

Solarminer

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For the conference i understand Dash only
but if you are talking general use, i have to say BTC + Dash is the way forward for now !
(Same as lamassu, OB ideas, ..... Dash only will bring you very very low volume and use/ outside the conference)
I understand what you are thinking. I do not feel the same way.

Bitcoin can never be used in point of sale. There is no reasonable way to make it work. Add a processor - fees too high. Skip confirmations, need a processor to take the risk - fees to too high. Add a debit card or ATMs to convert BTC to fiat. Why are we doing this???? So we can get around the 10-30min blocktime wait? See the problem. The reason Bitcoin is not adopted with point of sale is because it isn't technically possible - not because of some marketing hurdle.

Point of sale is Dash only. No other crypto can do it. We need to show that off! It has advantages that exceed any other crypto! It can stand on it's on. It will grow with it's advantages.

(I think I just wrote an Andreas Antonopolus speech....1-2 years away when it clicks for him)
 

tungfa

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I understand what you are thinking. I do not feel the same way.

Bitcoin can never be used in point of sale. There is no reasonable way to make it work. Add a processor - fees too high. Skip confirmations, need a processor to take the risk - fees to too high. Add a debit card or ATMs to convert BTC to fiat. Why are we doing this???? So we can get around the 10-30min blocktime wait? See the problem. The reason Bitcoin is not adopted with point of sale is because it isn't technically possible - not because of some marketing hurdle.

Point of sale is Dash only. No other crypto can do it. We need to show that off! It has advantages that exceed any other crypto! It can stand on it's on. It will grow with it's advantages.

(I think I just wrote an Andreas Antonopolus speech....1-2 years away when it clicks for him)
i totally hear you and agree !
my point regarding BTC was, what to do with that machine (2k US$) after !
and after BTC (next to Dash) will bring you volume , if you have an Dash only machine at some gas station, how many sodas will you sell ?
i know it is not about 1 or 20 cans, but if the machine just sits there looking pretty and only being used once a month would be a bummer, so pulling BTC people (at the gustation) in would still be a plus
my 2 puffs
 

tungfa

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I understand what you are thinking. I do not feel the same way.

Bitcoin can never be used in point of sale. There is no reasonable way to make it work. Add a processor - fees too high. Skip confirmations, need a processor to take the risk - fees to too high. Add a debit card or ATMs to convert BTC to fiat. Why are we doing this???? So we can get around the 10-30min blocktime wait? See the problem. The reason Bitcoin is not adopted with point of sale is because it isn't technically possible - not because of some marketing hurdle.

Point of sale is Dash only. No other crypto can do it. We need to show that off! It has advantages that exceed any other crypto! It can stand on it's on. It will grow with it's advantages.

(I think I just wrote an Andreas Antonopolus speech....1-2 years away when it clicks for him)
i totally hear you and agree !
my point regarding BTC was, what to do with that machine (2k US$) after !
and after BTC (next to Dash) will bring you volume , if you have an Dash only machine at some gas station, how many sodas will you sell ?
i know it is not about 1 or 20 cans, but if the machine just sits there looking pretty and only being used once a month would be a bummer, so pulling BTC people (at the gustation) in would still be a plus
my 2 puffs
 

Solarminer

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Can the design on the front also have a section on instructions?
Our graphics department is handling all the specifics. Lol. Yeah we have some detail on the LCD screen, bigger than the one you have seen. Also may have details on the side of the graphic or decal above/below depending on how it is done.
 

Solarminer

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i totally hear you and agree !
my point regarding BTC was, what to do with that machine (2k US$) after !
and after BTC (next to Dash) will bring you volume , if you have an Dash only machine at some gas station, how many sodas will you sell ?
i know it is not about 1 or 20 cans, but if the machine just sits there looking pretty and only being used once a month would be a bummer, so pulling BTC people (at the gustation) in would still be a plus
my 2 puffs
Must be important if you posted it twice. I cannot say this any better than Camosoul, so I quote him below.

It won't be just a soda machine. It'll be a deployable IX finder that pretty much anyone who feels like it can snag some old vending machine and set up their own.

My notion is that this machine could be a functional billboard in places with regular retail traffic. Places where a vending machine might typically be seen as unwanted competition, or there seems like there is no real need for a vending machine. Places where a vending machine might not be profitable, but still gets eyeballs walking by frequently. Places where pretty much everyone goes. Grocery stores. Everybody has to eat or they starve and die and stuff. Sell their own store brand. Make sure they get all the money. DASH vending machines could go into a lot of places that vending machines are not usually welcome, because DASH isn't competing for sales. We just want people to see it, no desire to compete.

These retailers could then become clients, as they've seen that it works with their own eyes. Warm leads instead of cold approach. Anyone using it will be asking the manager "When are you going to accept DASH for everything else in your store? I would totally use that!" this conversation will be happening before we're even ready to go there... Its like it'll try to sell itself in advance...

And the more people who man up and build their own machines with which to do this, the better. The DNCB 168 machine is a small and manageable machine. I'm taller than it is. It's well distributed around the country. They're sledge-hammer reliable and simple, and old school. A great thing to learn on if you're new to this kinda stuff... If you're not doing it, you're a special kind of lazy. The hard part has already been done for you. The software exists. Go schmooze a retailer and set up your Dixie Narco DASH billboard and stop being just a spectator!
 

TheDashGuy

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Must be important if you posted it twice. I cannot say this any better than Camosoul, so I quote him below.

It won't be just a soda machine. It'll be a deployable IX finder that pretty much anyone who feels like it can snag some old vending machine and set up their own.

My notion is that this machine could be a functional billboard in places with regular retail traffic. Places where a vending machine might typically be seen as unwanted competition, or there seems like there is no real need for a vending machine. Places where a vending machine might not be profitable, but still gets eyeballs walking by frequently. Places where pretty much everyone goes. Grocery stores. Everybody has to eat or they starve and die and stuff. Sell their own store brand. Make sure they get all the money. DASH vending machines could go into a lot of places that vending machines are not usually welcome, because DASH isn't competing for sales. We just want people to see it, no desire to compete.

These retailers could then become clients, as they've seen that it works with their own eyes. Warm leads instead of cold approach. Anyone using it will be asking the manager "When are you going to accept DASH for everything else in your store? I would totally use that!" this conversation will be happening before we're even ready to go there... Its like it'll try to sell itself in advance...

And the more people who man up and build their own machines with which to do this, the better. The DNCB 168 machine is a small and manageable machine. I'm taller than it is. It's well distributed around the country. They're sledge-hammer reliable and simple, and old school. A great thing to learn on if you're new to this kinda stuff... If you're not doing it, you're a special kind of lazy. The hard part has already been done for you. The software exists. Go schmooze a retailer and set up your Dixie Narco DASH billboard and stop being just a spectator!
This is incredibly intriguing.... you're telling me I could basically start a business making Dash soda or pinball machines if I so wanted?
 

Solarminer

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Yeah, you can start a business selling or building whatever you want. But using Dash as a payment method will make payments easier and faster. We should be able to package all the pi stuff on an image or at least some scripts to make it easy to get going. The goal is adoption, we are trying to make that easy.
 

crowning

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Alpha Centauri Bc
The Instantx Soda Machine!
[...]
The plan is cunning and clever. We give away paper wallets to BTC Miami attendees with enough DASH to cover the price of a soda with some left over to keep.
When this thing is up and running, could someone please make a halfway professional video of someone using it? Especially the part where the mobile is used to pay?

I once had a business gig in Atlanta for that other Coke company, maybe I can resurrect some old connections...
 

GrandMasterDash

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I'm going to get so many likes for this....

Pregnancy Test Vending Machines .... that's both InstantX and reason for anonymous payments (not going to your cc bill)

You might want to put that idea in front of them
 
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raganius

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Yeah, you can start a business selling or building whatever you want. But using Dash as a payment method will make payments easier and faster. We should be able to package all the pi stuff on an image or at least some scripts to make it easy to get going. The goal is adoption, we are trying to make that easy.
Very cool. I'd love to keep one of these vending machines running around here. That's a perfect project!
 

Solarminer

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When this thing is up and running, could someone please make a halfway professional video of someone using it? Especially the part where the mobile is used to pay?

I once had a business gig in Atlanta for that other Coke company, maybe I can resurrect some old connections...
In Camosoul's words a hillbilly youtube video will be done....Is that not what you were hoping for? Yes, we will get a video and it should be pretty good. I would worry more about actors in it....
 

camosoul

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The root cause here is too much focus on polishing things that are already shiny because nobody in crypto has every tread upon this ground before. BitClones know they aren't fit for it and don't even try. We're just sitting here doing what they do, which is fail. We can talk big about how different DASH is, but we all still just sit around talking about being grandma friendly.

BitClones are Vendor hostile. They expect a vendor to risk confirmationless transactions. As soon as word gets out that a vendor is doing that with a BitClone, the people with brains will show up to smack that idea into the dirt and prove how bad it is by double-spending the crap out of it.

This is why BitClones don't even try.

This isn't about a Crypto Vending Machine. Those already exist. They're nerd toys with no practical application. Ask anyone who has one.

This isn't about an arduino/pi in a vending machine. Those already exist. Again, nerd toys with no use.

This isn't even about Instant Transactions. BitClones actually do have this. Every TX hits the memory pool instantly.

We're obviously not contesting the security of the blockchain. We're simply aware of, and doing something about, the fact that making the blockchain's ledger security run double-duty as TX security, is stupid and slow. It works. Yes. But, it doesn't work properly. It doesn't work appropriately. Transactions need to be secured by an independent system. They shouldn't be in limbo waiting for lockdown. They should be instantly locked down. DASH does this. BitClones do not. Basically, it's locked memory pool which just waits to be included in the ledger for the simple task of not having an unmanageable memory pool... The ledger does what the ledger does, the transactions do what the transactions do. Without trying to offload tasks from one to the other inappropriately, like BitClones do.

This is about Instantly SECURED Transactions. The fact that it's in a vending machine is only marginally interesting.

Check on your local Craig's List or eBay for an ancient single-price vending machine like the Dixie Narco 168 I've got sitting in my shop right now waiting to be spruced up and the nerd guts jammed in it. We have the distinct position of not actually being in the vending machine business. We could put one of these in a number of high retail traffic areas with no conflict of interest that might normally exist with a vending machine. We can sell the site's own store brand products. We don't care. We're just trying to be a bigass billboard for DASH that people can actually interact with and buy stuff. Even if it's just a silly old vending machine. It's better than any BitClone can do.

The guy I bought this machine from said it as succinctly as only a redneck with no clue what crypto is can: "If I can't actually use it anywhere, it's useless to me."

We've gotta stop polishing the user experience. It's shiny enough already. We need to polish the vendor experience. It's a symptom of the crypto community's self-absorbed socialist attitude. Nobody even thinks about the vendor side because it's all about me me me, money hose money hose money hose, baghold baghold baghold, hype hype hype, etc...

What exactly is the user experience for a coin that has nowhere it can be spent? Oh, look, my shiny mobile client... With which I cannot do one damn thing... Yeah, that's pretty damned grandma friendly... It sits around collecting dust just like she does!

Actually being able to use DASH, where no other BitClone can be used, is the unwalked path we must create. We must not simply mimic the failures of others, because, duh, they're failures. I'm not trying to rub it in or anything, but my shit is all paid for, for a reason; I quit doing what other people do. I don't pay rent. I don't pay mortgages. I don't keep up with the Jones'. Most people hate me and think I'm a weirdo for the simple fact that I'm not in the rat race anymore. I give precisely zero fucks because I win. This is what DASH must do. Lots of people are not going to like us because we're knocking their long-held bag in the dirt. Not to mention the emotional investment... To bad, so sad. Go head and Gox yourself again... The writing is on the wall. If you can't read it, you're dumb. The Free Market is not going to hold your hand and make it all better when you fuck up. You've either got the stones for reality, or you need to go back home to mommy.

The platform is not merely for this conference. It's not even the main event. It's just a closed development platform that we don't have to sweat pissing off an existing retail establishment by using them as a guinea pig. It doubles as an "in." They can be placed in any number of high traffic areas where vending machines might not usually go due to lack or profitability, or conflict of interest. Our only interest is getting seen. Not just by consumers, but by the vendors. They can see it working like magic. People giggling like little girls as they shapeshift their BitClones into something that is actually useful! "When are you guys going to accept DASH for all the stuff in your store, not just this machine?" The customers will be asking for it, not just us trying to promote a thing they've never heard of.

When we've got it all ironed out, er, moocowmoo has it all ironed out, we'll help anyone who wants to set up an "interactive billboard" in their own town. It's really not a vending machine. It's an interactive billboard. I really liked the old as dirt Dixie Narco DNCB 168 becasue it's small enough I can manhandle it myself if I have to. It's got a stupid simple interface and operation mechanism. It's got a monolithic presence... And it's not so enormous and heavy that you need a fork lift, like most vending machines. If you want to do more than just sit on your ass, you can do this just the same as we are. Do your part to get DASH out there. Now, if you want to set it up as a business, we can't give you free help for that. This is about DASH, not subsidizing your vending biz...

I can't say it enough, moocowmoo has been god-like. I've got experience with microcontroller programming, but the huge world of a true computing environment, and learning a language in it, has been more than I could do. I knew I wasn't the guy for this job, but somebody had to do it, so I just starting beating my head against it. You'd laugh your ass off if you saw my rigged up version of an event-driven IX detector. It worked, sorta. Kinda. But, uh... Solarminer and I were making a hilarious "failing upwards" attempt at it. I'm so glad moocowmoo stepped in, or this might not have been possible on this deadline. I don't know if it'll dispense cold beverages, but it will dispense beverages. I was trying to keep the cost low, and this thing has a blown-out r12 refrigeration system. It doesn't even have fill ports... But the core function is damn near a done deal already. There's a mockup of the machine sitting on my desk that clicks relays when tDASH are sent. It makes change, detects IX and non-IX, bounces insufficient sends and non-IX sends... It's pretty sexy already. All I have to do is stick it in there, and there's a bit of debugging and sneaky fucker catchers to do. Oh, and drag it 400 miles to Miami, and then back again... :p Most vending machines, like people, live out their lives within 50 miles of their original installation. They're a bitch to move around...

ATMs are just a band-aid for the problem of retail un-usability. Nevermind the huge amount of AML/KYC guvscam BS that comes with it. DASH can skip that whole mess, so we better damn well actually do it. Digital Cash? Right? So, uh, lets actually BE DIGITAL CASH ALREADY!

Gas Station POS systems are a house of cards, at best. We need this project as a Phase 1 before we can approach Gas Stations.
 

alex-ru

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Maybe we should place this Lamassu machine's image on the side of DASH'n'Drink machine to make explanations about InstantX ecosystem easier...

 

kot

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camosoul - I love what you wrote. I will be more than happy to support you with this project, if you need any help.
 

HinnomTX

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This is a great project concept. However, one should not take the wrong shortcuts. The machine needs to dispense cold beverages. I'd rather see it fully working for a later conference than have it sell warm Cokes in Miami.
First impressions are very very important.
 

camosoul

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This is a great project concept. However, one should not take the wrong shortcuts. The machine needs to dispense cold beverages. I'd rather see it fully working for a later conference than have it sell warm Cokes in Miami.
First impressions are very very important.
This is one of the biggest sticking points we still have... While your statement is completely valid, the focus here is not on the beverages, but on what IX does that BitClones can't/won't.

I'd really like to have this thing cold by then. But fixing it is borderline. Just plain replacing the refrigerant system is more than double what the thing cost to buy in the first place.

We'll just have to fly by the seat of our pants on this one... But, no doubt, it matters...

This thing was just a cool idea 14 days ago. Now the machine is actually here, and we have working code already... oaxaca gave me the "be a manly man" push I needed to try to get this done by the 21st, which I was (and still am) skeptical about. The time frame to make this happen is exceedingly ballsy, which is why, at outset, I did not want to make a budget proposal. There are about 10 people involved now, so I didn't feel right about continuing to impose that, especially since it looks like it might actually happen!
 
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orangecycle

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This is one of the biggest sticking points we still have... While your statement is completely valid, the focus here is not on the beverages, but on what IX does that BitClones can't/won't.

I'd really like to have this thing cold by then. But fixing it is borderline. Just plain replacing the refrigerant system is more than double what the thing cost to buy in the first place.

We'll just have to fly by the seat of our pants on this one... But, no doubt, it matters...

This thing was just a cool idea 14 days ago. Now the machine is actually here, and we have working code already... oaxaca gave me the "be a manly man" push I needed to try to get this done by the 21st, which I was (and still am) skeptical about. The time frame to make this happen is exceedingly ballsy, which is why, at outset, I did not want to make a budget proposal. There are about 10 people involved now, so I didn't feel right about continuing to impose that, especially since it looks like it might actually happen!
We need another vendor right next to the machine. They will sell single ice cubes, but the catch is you need to pay in BTC and wait for 6 confirmations.
 

paperThin

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Just bring a cooler and fill the machine with ice-cold cans! Plus there is probably some room inside for a few "Blue-ice" blocks. I agree with Camo... Keep the target in view and don't sweat the rest. The observers(vendors) we care about will "get it". The person complaining about warm soda is clueless and already missed the point!
 
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