Welcome to the Dash Forum!

Please sign up to discuss the most innovative cryptocurrency!

Announcing the Project Management and Delivery Excellence Initiative

Discussion in 'Official Announcements' started by eduffield, May 5, 2015.

  1. 1whoLikesDash

    1whoLikesDash New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2015
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Zoom, is easy to use, free and more secure because it is encrypted (i think), unlike skype which is not.
     
  2. 1whoLikesDash

    1whoLikesDash New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2015
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    3
    I propose we use an internet archive non-profit to improve transparency, able to be seen from Google with free long-term hosting for texts and downloads.
     
  3. balu

    balu Well-known Member
    Dash Core Team Foundation Member Dash Support Group

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2014
    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    239
    Trophy Points:
    213
    Let's agree to disagree then :) We are creating open-source software, and this enables us to use commercial, otherwise expensive services for free. It doesn't mean that these services are free because of their low quality. On the contrary, many of these services are top-notch, used by lots of commercial firms. GitHub, Atlassian, and many other companies provide great tools for free, and we'd be silly to pay for an alternative unless that's way better.
    The fact that we are able to cover such costs does not mean that we should, especially if there's a free option available of similar quality. Irrational spending of money raised with the decentralized governance (even if it's only perceived by many to be irrational) will backfire in no time.

    Regarding relying too much on tools made by the community: chaeplin's was the very first site providing masternode information. He disappeared from one day to another. The result is that new people came up with new tools.
    On one hand I agree with you that we should prevent such a scenario from happening again - there are short-term plans to mitigate this issue partly.
    On the other hand, even if we lose a tool maintained by the community member, another will be born from its ashes.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. kot

    kot Administrator
    Core Developer Dash Core Team Foundation Member Dash Support Group Masternode Owner/Operator Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2015
    Messages:
    687
    Likes Received:
    1,847
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Nice discussion guys. Please keep posting your ideas and issues and also propose the creative solutions to identified problems. We really appreciate them all (issue reports, improvements ideas and solutions).
     
    #64 kot, May 26, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: May 26, 2015
    • Like Like x 3
  5. kot

    kot Administrator
    Core Developer Dash Core Team Foundation Member Dash Support Group Masternode Owner/Operator Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2015
    Messages:
    687
    Likes Received:
    1,847
    Trophy Points:
    263
    • Like Like x 3
  6. coingun

    coingun Active Member
    Masternode Owner/Operator

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2014
    Messages:
    489
    Likes Received:
    402
    Trophy Points:
    133
    I don't care about the cost of the services. I care about the experience of the end user. At the current moment we are shipping a piece of software that People and Businesses will use as digital money for everyday financial transactions. To this extent we owe it to the end user to take all precautions by using the most secure and industry recognized security best practices. Why we would want to choose a free cert that barely covers half the platforms out there rather then getting a single cert that can sign our applications across all platforms in a single go? We can continue that discussion later but right now we are providing a piece of financial software that when opened on all major operating systems displays an error about being "malicious" and that one should proceed with extreme caution. Not the best first experience. I'd rather our application open with 5 big phat gold stars on every operating system we build for and support. This is what would give me warn fuzzies, rather then having to by pass gatekeeper on osx to start the application.

    I'm advocating for the basic services that we rely on to provide safe and reliable financial solutions to consumers and merchants be curated and documented, reproducible in the event of a disaster, and able to be as self sustaining just like the blockchain. Blockchains are hard to understand if you can't parse them with explorer's. Wallet's don't work well if there are no dnsseeds. Masternode voting is hard to count if not displayed on something like dashninja. Perhaps some of these very core functions need to be discussed and extended into the base protocol. Just like to see the discussion regarding these pieces continued. Maybe all i'm saying is dashninja becomes a residual project sponsored by the community. Maybe it's the ability for the blockchain to not just higher contractors but also services. I could imagine a spot where we carved off enough reserves for these basic services we need to be covered as well. Our code signing certificates, domains, ssl certificates, spork control utilities, reference node controls, and all the things I'm missing are just as important as our blockchain contractors. The blockchain also can't function without basic services to support it. Food for thought we aren't talking about crazy amounts of money here. Few hundred for vps', few hundred for cert's, few hundred for hookers and bl....errr beer's and pizza.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  7. bigrcanada

    bigrcanada Well-known Member
    Foundation Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2014
    Messages:
    315
    Likes Received:
    367
    Trophy Points:
    233
    wow...these are some great ideas!
     
  8. bigrcanada

    bigrcanada Well-known Member
    Foundation Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2014
    Messages:
    315
    Likes Received:
    367
    Trophy Points:
    233
    again wow....I get fired up when I see this kind of dialoque. I'm going through this with my own company. Before adding more products...fill out and mature your foundation infrastructure. Well said coingun!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. coingun

    coingun Active Member
    Masternode Owner/Operator

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2014
    Messages:
    489
    Likes Received:
    402
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Can you get a website already so I can order some wine with Dash!

    Thanks bigrcanada. It one one of the biggest lesson's my first VC taught me. Your balance sheet isn't a proper balance sheet if it doesn't contain all the actual costs to run your business. You don't make a bunch of money if you aren't properly accounting for all your expenses!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. bigrcanada

    bigrcanada Well-known Member
    Foundation Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2014
    Messages:
    315
    Likes Received:
    367
    Trophy Points:
    233
    Man...your telling me. I got schooled this year on that. Hands on business owners like me live to much in our fish bowl...sort of like the community members here on here. The fact that in several years I've not managed to get a website up, which I've sent $40K+ and have had to throw them all out speaks volumes of my lack of working and funding the basics. I'm super embarrassed that I don't have that site up. Damn...now you got me fired up to deal with this pronto! ;)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. fernando

    fernando Powered by Dash
    Dash Core Team Foundation Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 9, 2014
    Messages:
    1,528
    Likes Received:
    2,061
    Trophy Points:
    283
    I have just catched up with this thread, sorry for being away from the discussion.

    Foundation

    The foundation website has not been updated yet because we are still in the process of changing the legal name (Harold filled a motion with the State, but it takes a lot of time). Once the legal name is changed we'll update the website to the new domain. Being a legal entity has the problem that you need to do things according to other people's rules :(

    Alert system

    crowning, thanks for mentioning me so I could get notified, it is difficult to keep up with all discussions :) I'm ashamed to admit that there is no advancement in the alert system. I gave it some thought back then, but it fell to the back of my mind. The only real improvement is that now some of us have exchanged phone numbers, but that is definitely not enough. I would differentiate two parts in this alert system:

    1. Raising the alert. As coingun has said can use many apps for this that don't require to give phone number. My suggestion would be to create a Telegram group. It works great in phone and computer, it is free, open source and has customizable notifications. I would include in the group at least 20 active members of the community. If anyone sees something weird, he writes to the group. It would only be for this kind of events.

    2. Acting on the alert. This part is more difficult because the reality is that only a very reduced group of people can solve network problems and maybe some of them are not comfortable giving their phone numbers to such a big group. If they don't see the Telegram alert they should get a call. Maybe we could list those members of the group who can solve problems (if that is possible, problems are not predictable, so knowing who can solve them is not that easy!) and who has their phone numbers. This way, if the doers don't see the alert message, one of those with their phone number can call them if they see it themselves...

    Anyway, ideas are welcomed, I'll start a different thread so we can work on it.

    Support ticket system

    It can be a lot of work, but I agree it is worth the effort. User fible1 approached Evan about this offering himself to answer the tickets. I'm working with him to define what we should do. Atm, I'm answering all contact requests from the website. The volume is quite inconsistent, some days I answer five emails and others nobody writes. In any case, it is not a huge volume yet, but I guess that creating a support portal could increase that. I was thinking about using Jira Service Desk because we already use Jira and Confluence and our open source license covers it, but I need to check with flare. I was waiting to find him online to chat, but I guess that mention will do the trick :)

    Free software

    I agree with coingun that we can't limit ourselves to free tools. In some cases it is fine because it is free only because we are an open source project (that's the case with the Atlassian license, usually their software is quite expensive), but a budget for tools should be one of the first proposals we put to a vote.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  12. coingun

    coingun Active Member
    Masternode Owner/Operator

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2014
    Messages:
    489
    Likes Received:
    402
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Even more reason that we don't bury our darkcoin roots and maintain a backwards and forwards path as to where we have come and where we are going. You go to our github and can't find any left from of our old project name yet the one legal entity we control is still flying the wrong banner. This is partly what's leading to all the confusion. So IMO this whole transition has been a massive boat for confusion. All good though we learn as we go I get that.

    There is also lots of pragmatic way's to solve this issue. We could have an asterisk server setup to do the paging and contain all the numbers. It could start calling the group of people one by one in order of precedent until someone was reached. Some of the other issue could be solved by flying and maintaining our own assets. This is sort of what I was getting at about relying too much on the community tools. Sometimes with community tools there is doubt as to whether they are right or wrong due to the distance of removal from the actual core group to the member handling said service. If the network deployed and supported enough hardware it would be trivial to automate a lot of the monitoring/paging requirements for getting in touch with the group.

    I just also want to clarify cause it seems like my concern about using "Free Certificates" has gotten mis-quoted to being I hate free software. That was never my comment. My comment was there is certain pieces of software that a business should build into their balance sheet. If they are required the software or platform to do business and function, then it should be reliable and scaleable. There are very few fully free offerings that scale properly for a business open source or not. I am no trying to break the bank or balance sheet I'm trying to make sure that as a group we are planning beyond our immediate needs today and what is in scope in view to move towards. Nothing worse then growing a business just to realized some very core architectural pieces that you didn't even realize you needed were missing or worse yet you get up to pitch that first VC and are blank when he asks his first question.

    If only we had the ability for the blockchain to higher services _and_ contractors... hmm.

    Then it could rent out VPS's and fly more services. I personally would probably suggest osticket.com they make a great free open source system you just need a vps to host it. I'm familiar with the setup and would be willing to bang this one out for the community if there was a spot to host it or I can add it to masternode.io

    My comment keeps getting taken a bit out of context but that is fine. I only choose to mention that we shouldn't be shying away from a solution simply cause it's not free. I do agree with Knot and Balu that many free services are quite great. I've also made a lot of money migrating scaled businesses from free platforms that no longer support their business load to proper ones that do. In almost all cases the customer responds darn I wish I had made this transition earlier. Just trying to save us some time learning it the hard way.

    A lot of the mistakes in this project that have been made have simply been from people learning new things in new fields on the fly under real world stress.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  13. UdjinM6

    UdjinM6 Official Dash Dev
    Dash Core Team Moderator

    Joined:
    May 20, 2014
    Messages:
    3,637
    Likes Received:
    3,536
    Trophy Points:
    1,183
    I'm lurking here but can't just pass by this
    That's not 100% true https://github.com/dashpay/dash/blob/master/doc/release-notes.md#older-releases :rolleyes:

    Anyway, interesting questions raised here and interesting ideas of how to solve some of our issues. Will keep watching :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. coingun

    coingun Active Member
    Masternode Owner/Operator

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2014
    Messages:
    489
    Likes Received:
    402
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Great that we have some reference I hadn't seen that yet.

    The base point I was trying to make was that during most conversion's involving mature brands on the web there is usually some effort made to maintain old links that may be linked to from around the web. Lots of people talked about xcoin, darkcoin and those github projects and links are still out there and now dead. I have seen lots of people coming into IRC asking if we are still closed source because the documentation out in the wild referring to our source was all pointing at the darkcoin github which is sort of just a dead branch of an old tree now.

    Lots of ways to address this could just be better documentation on the "master" wiki. Maybe just a commit back in the old repo's forwarding people on to the new repo's. The DASH seo is still filling up and it's really hard to find some of the old tools. Even your bootstrap file. You ever logged into a completely fresh machine with none of your dev stuff and tried to use only some shitty search engine to find your bootstrap file and the dash wallet? I spent 5 or 10 minutes digging around looking up where everyone's stuff moved to. If I'm spending 5 or 10 minutes think what others who's never heard of xcoin/darkcoin/dash. I'm proud of our roots. Heck a lot of the crazy solutions we've come up with are simply from great minds getting together and thinking about problems and discussing them.

    Thanks for helping us engage.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. UdjinM6

    UdjinM6 Official Dash Dev
    Dash Core Team Moderator

    Joined:
    May 20, 2014
    Messages:
    3,637
    Likes Received:
    3,536
    Trophy Points:
    1,183
    Err... I agree on being proud of our roots part but again:
    1) https://github.com/darkcoin/darkcoin redirects to https://github.com/dashpay/dash automatically, nothing is dead imo, I see no problem here

    2) Bootstrap: https://github.com/UdjinM6/dash-bootstrap
    1. search "bootstrap" here on forum - tons of links to my repo and few to the thread itself https://dashtalk.org/threads/bootstrap-dat-to-help-new-clients-to-sync-faster.2908/
    2. google "dash bootstrap" - link to the repo is on the first page for me

    3) Wallet: dashpay.io -> Download
    I don't think that it's really that bad to spend 10 minutes :tongue: but maybe we can improve this somehow... Any ideas?

    4) What is "master" wiki? The one on forum forwarding you from top menu here ( http://en.wiki.dashninja.pl/wiki/FAQ ) or the one that is linked from dashpay.io ( http://wiki.dashpay.io/ ) ? The latter is supported by tungfa and it's up to date (and also mention XCoin and Darkcoin as a previously known names btw). The former is supported by elbereth and he said he will keep it running but have no time to update it often.
    I guess we could make few small updates to make things a little bit more consistent however:
    - make a simple "Note" about Dash on Elb's wiki and provide a link to http://wiki.dashpay.io/ - pinging elbereth
    - change link on forum top to redirect to http://wiki.dashpay.io/ - pinging Propulsion
     
  16. elbereth

    elbereth Active Member
    Dash Support Group

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2014
    Messages:
    440
    Likes Received:
    466
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Dash Address:
    XkfkHqMnhvQovo7kXQjvnNiFnQhRNZYCsz
    Added the same note on the FAQ page than on the front page, a redirection to the new wiki.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  17. kot

    kot Administrator
    Core Developer Dash Core Team Foundation Member Dash Support Group Masternode Owner/Operator Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2015
    Messages:
    687
    Likes Received:
    1,847
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Gentlemen, great discussion!
    Regarding tools - we are going to use Atlassian stack (professional and free for open-source projects) to maintain basic ITIL processes like Problem Management, Change Management, Release Management (I am thinking about Incident Management and Release Fulfillment as well). The work is in progress. We will share some updates soon.

    I have a proposition - let's move the discussion about existing issues and improvement ideas to a separate thread. We would have one place to store them all. What do you think about this?
     
    #77 kot, May 28, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: May 28, 2015
    • Like Like x 2
  18. coingun

    coingun Active Member
    Masternode Owner/Operator

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2014
    Messages:
    489
    Likes Received:
    402
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Still formulating responses for 1-3 but off the top I think you justified my point. Even we don't know which is the master :) I'm not trying to be overly critical perhaps all that is required is some clean-up. I'll get more into 1-3 when I have more time.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. buster

    buster Guest

    If a support desk existed I would volunteer to help answer tickets.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  20. coingun

    coingun Active Member
    Masternode Owner/Operator

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2014
    Messages:
    489
    Likes Received:
    402
    Trophy Points:
    133
    I pretty much stand corrected. The last time I looked was a little while back and you guys have been busy cleaning up. Very nice job.

    PS: amazing job on https://github.com/UdjinM6/insight-api-dash just finishing syncing that baby up!!! I'll post links once it is done.
     
  21. coingun

    coingun Active Member
    Masternode Owner/Operator

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2014
    Messages:
    489
    Likes Received:
    402
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Look Mr. We can't just sit around here and be at your beckon call all day long throwing up services on a whim... or can we!!!!

    http://helpdesk.masternode.io/
     
    • Like Like x 4
  22. moli

    moli Grizzled Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    3,261
    Likes Received:
    1,837
    Trophy Points:
    1,183
    If you would like to create a separate thread, we have forum "Dash Core Team": https://dashtalk.org/forums/dash-core-team.48/
    Or you could choose another forum, but I would like to ask not to bring it to Slack. Forums on this site are much better for discussions and references.

    Thanks. :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  23. oaxaca

    oaxaca Well-known Member
    Foundation Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2014
    Messages:
    573
    Likes Received:
    832
    Trophy Points:
    263
    My MN voted "yea" to keep it here.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  24. moli

    moli Grizzled Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    3,261
    Likes Received:
    1,837
    Trophy Points:
    1,183
    My 100 MNs did the same....

    :tongue: :D
     
    • Like Like x 2
  25. TaoOfSatoshi

    TaoOfSatoshi Grizzled Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2014
    Messages:
    2,720
    Likes Received:
    2,613
    Trophy Points:
    1,183
    Lurking here as well, but I also like the discussion that's happening here.

    We do need to grow up as a community and business, our tools and processes will change, and we will surely encounter growing pains and hurt feelings. Just make sure to voice your opinions and contribute as best you can, so that your ideas are heard.

    coingun I am not a member of any Slack channel, yet I'm sure no one would say I'm not helping Dash daily. We can help out, all of us, in our own way, contributing to this discussion or seeing a need and filling it.

    Please keep the ideas flowing, it's good to see.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  26. coingun

    coingun Active Member
    Masternode Owner/Operator

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2014
    Messages:
    489
    Likes Received:
    402
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Told you so! :p
     
  27. fernando

    fernando Powered by Dash
    Dash Core Team Foundation Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 9, 2014
    Messages:
    1,528
    Likes Received:
    2,061
    Trophy Points:
    283
    Slack is not good for long discussions. It is just a private IRC, but easier to use and with a few extra features. It is great for certain things, but not for others.

    The situation of the dash core team forum is unclear. Your link works and you can still find the threads there, but it is not visible from the homepage. I know Propulsion said that he would delete it and move the threads somewhere else because it had no clear purpose (I agree). I think that threads discussing ideas should go to General or maybe Development Tech Discussion.
     
  28. crowning

    crowning Well-known Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2014
    Messages:
    1,428
    Likes Received:
    2,005
    Trophy Points:
    183
    I had a closer look into Telegram and it looks quite promising.

    The only issue I see is for people like me (without a mobile-number) it's not possible to use it at all, not even with the desktop client.
     
  29. tungfa

    tungfa Administrator
    Dash Core Team Foundation Member Masternode Owner/Operator Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2014
    Messages:
    8,961
    Likes Received:
    6,735
    Trophy Points:
    1,283
    Sign me up too
    Mac only please
     
    • Like Like x 1
  30. fernando

    fernando Powered by Dash
    Dash Core Team Foundation Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 9, 2014
    Messages:
    1,528
    Likes Received:
    2,061
    Trophy Points:
    283
    I give people my username instead of my phone number, but I had not thought about not having a mobile number... In the past I think I used some online number to receive a verification message in services to which I didn't want to give my real number (as far as I know, that is the only thing Telegram needs if you are using the desktop client).