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Sub-dao, voter delegation, or lowering the proposal fee. Best scaling options?

The lost opportunity is burning 5 dash without putting it to better use; review, escrow, proposal translation services, proposer identity checks and so on. These kind of services would improve the overall quality of proposals and reduce the risk of scams. Each masternode could vote for a Proposal Services Sub-DAO on an ongoing basis.
 
I'm not really a fan of having a generic sub-DAO act as a catch-all for any small proposals. The people best equipped to evaluate small or local proposals are the people closest to that location or area of expertise. I would be fine with funding regional teams or teams that have a clearly laid out mission/purpose, and then anyone who wants to do a small project that falls under those areas could solicit funds from those teams instead of soliciting funds from the masternodes at the protocol level.
 
lowering the proposal fee could lead to the breakdown of the ability for masternodes to actually review each proposal.
I can't see the network handling more than 100 proposals in a month successfully.


  1. Give voting power to more actors (see also here).
  2. Issue category tags to the proposals, and make them searchable.
  3. Change the linear structure of the governance proposal system, and make it a tree.
  4. Let the proposals be classiffied into the tree branches and let them stay there forever (see also here), waiting to be voted by all actors.
  5. Vote the numbers, thus vote a voting threshold (a percentage of the total number of voters). Whenever the votes of a proposal are above this voting_threshold/percentage, this proposal becomes a payee candidate during the budget finalization (that occurs periodically).
 
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The problem with this is that it leads to the same issue as lowering the proposal fee: a total number of proposals that is too high to reasonably sort through, regardless of their value.

If We have a sub-dao, it needs to either be A)self contained and have discretion to spend funds on it's own, with some accountability afterwards that people can look at or B)mostly self contained, so that anyone who wants to vote on the sub-dao proposals can do so, but they don't take up the same space as normal proposals.

If you don't divert the attention needed to sort through the proposals, you're not solving the underlying issue.

Theoretically, it could be implemented in the code, but one of the largest advantages of a sub-dao is that it can be painlessly dropped if it is found to be under serving the network.

As soon as you are talking about protocol level structural changes, it adds months to any timeline to add the features safely, and we need something soon.

I think that the easiest interim solution will be a sub-dao that has discretion to spend its own funds on whatever project looks promising (like Dash Force for meet ups)

It would be simple to set up, and simple to defund if the community felt it was not serving it's needs.
From my point of view, this is one of the reasons why MNs have rewards, read understand and vote. It's their responsibility. They already have the means to have at least one co-worker to assist them.

Always from my point of view, soon each MN will have the means to be a sub-DAO to him all alone.

We already had an example of a SUB-DAO that does not work with DASH GLOBAL.

Dash Core, Dev Team, Dash Force New, ... are there for a reason, trust and work done. They all started by producing something that gave value to Dash, then they were funded to allow them to go further.
In the first they worked and gave results.

I think, as Evan himself says, if a person wants to invest funds as he or she wishes with discretion, he does it with his own funds.

Nothing is urgent, we have time. Until this is incorporated in the code, it remains the posibility for a proposal owner to be financed by donations if the project is really a matter of life or death for Dash.

On this point we have to make an important choice, either we share a model "LTC Lightning" out of the chain, or we continue to find solutions in our code as "instantsend"?

The first question is:
SUB-DAO in the chain YES / NO?

If it's a yes, then we have plenty of questions to ask ourselves.
We just need a SUB-DAO, or a descrow service, a smart contract. That in the main chain or in a secondary chain ....?


I'm not really a fan of having a generic sub-DAO act as a catch-all for any small proposals. The people best equipped to evaluate small or local proposals are the people closest to that location or area of expertise. I would be fine with funding regional teams or teams that have a clearly laid out mission/purpose, and then anyone who wants to do a small project that falls under those areas could solicit funds from those teams instead of soliciting funds from the masternodes at the protocol level.

I share your point of view, eventually in each country there will be a CORE TEAM agency.

It was in a first time started and helped by the CORE TEAM, then become autonomous (financially).

Co-ordination with CORE TEAM is important for everything to be coherent.

We need people in those countries that we can trust. This trust is built with time and actions.

It's a sharing of point of view, not an absolute truth
 
How about we take a quick poll.

How much should a proposal cost? Vote now:

https://goo.gl/C3PYhW


(if there's a way to embed a poll directly in the forum then my apologies, there was no immediately obvious way to do so)
 
Hey, thanks for write about this issue!

I think a fixed $ USD ammount combined with a diversification system of proposals would organize better the whole process. It wouldn´t be so expensive to entrepenuers since DASH keeps growing strong, and it will become easier to masternodes to look for the proposals.

I don´t throw away the idea of having a maximum number of proposals each month, it could work too!

I think this problem needs to be solved very quickly in a effective way, because for example people in countries were crytocurrencies like DASH would have a high positive inlfuence (like for example: Zimbawe, Venezuela, Congo, Sudan, etc) couldn´t afford the fee to submit a potential great proposal, so even when the fee is a very nice filter it could be negative to whole community.

I think we can find a perfect middle point to solve this issue!
 
The budget isn't about making free money more available.

It's about doing useful things for DASH.

Which, right now, could only be done by major player for whom the current proposal fee is peanuts.

This isn't a welfare system for do-nothing pie-in-the-sky dreamers.

Frankly, I see it leaning towards being a "special expenses" system for Core. They get a salary, but a major TV ad campaign, or Integrating Wal Mart... Those sort of undertakings would require mass funds above and beyond their salaries.
 
I like this way of thinking https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/...-sponsorship-dash-giveaway.22244/#post-156930
Basically, as long as your project aims for relatively large amount of Dash, you just don't care what the fee is, it doesn't matter. You just need to find and incentivize smaller investors first and give them smth in return if your proposal was funded. If you can't find anyone who would like to put their money on you, then maybe your proposal is not good enough or isn't ready yet to be presented to MNOs and you should try harder.
 
So, user Pasta has posted an idea that pretty much sums up a lot of the short term plans for useful structures in a new pre-proposal.

I would direct everyone over there to take a look, at least for short term solutions, until we change the structure of the system in evolution.

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/pre-proposal-dashboost-funding-small-projects-by-sub-dao.24031/
Thanks for posting this @Plateglassarmour I think this solution solves the problem in the most suitable way and we have already started on our web development, however I am also okay with changing how this will work based on community feedback. Please respond over there and I'll get right back to you.
 
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