Dash Growth Crowdfund/Pre-Proposal

[thedesertlynx]

The following is a crowdfund and pre-proposal for Dash Growth, a new initiative for growth marketing and business development for Dash.

Challenge

Historically, the vast majority of Dash’s business development and marketing has been done by Dash Core Group, especially in periods of lean treasury. Right now, DCG is doing neither. Due to staffing cuts, there is no one doing business development or marketing for Dash at all.

To be clear: there is no one in charge of posting regularly from the official Twitter account or on other platforms. There is no one responsible for answering business development inquiries or partners like exchanges and wallets. This gives Dash the appearance of a completely dead coin, and we can expect a series of delistings and service disruptions if this continues. The situation is critical.

Opportunity

Thankfully, we have all the tools to easily not only reboot previous maintenance of essential functions, but also grow rapidly and expand our user base and visibility in 2024 onwards. Dash is an old and well-tested cryptocurrency project with major integrations in services the world over, has an established brand, and, most importantly, is the most practically useful and user-friendly digital cash in the world right now. We essentially have a great product with few users and little visibility, primed for a relaunch.

The original promise of cryptocurrency, that of decentralized digital cash, has largely been unfulfilled 15 years into the technology’s existence. The rest of the space has chased store-of-value, decentralized applications, and finance, but no one has successfully taken digital cash to market. I believe that Dash is the best digital cash in the world, as evidenced by my personal choice to overwhelmingly use it as my money for the past 7 years and counting. We have an enormous opportunity for growth here.

Especially with the start of the next bull market, and potentially the Evolution launch, the timing is good to make Dash come alive again and ride a wave, giving momentum and additional funds to make a lasting impact in adoption.

Plan

We will start a new DFO, Dash Growth, to handle business development and marketing for Dash. This will consist of two full-time employees, myself and Marina Siradegyan (former Dash Core Group communications officer). We will take over business development duties from where DCG left off, including engaging with partners (wallets, exchanges, etc.), rekindling lost relationships, and forming new ones. We will focus on growing Dash in strategic services as much as possible to increase its network effects in service of the digital cash use case, and heavily push for support of Dash’s special features (InstantSend, ChainLocks, and PrivateSend).

Additionally we will leverage current Dash assets to create a content-based marketing approach, building reach and visibility for Dash with a low-cost approach, leveraging partners wherever possible for mutual collaboration and promotion. We will supplement this low-cost growth strategy with several ad campaigns (as many as budget allows for) targeted for maximum reach and conversions per dollar. Please see our Dash Growth Marketing Plan outline.

NOTE! The above plan is largely for Dash the cryptocurrency as it stands today, with currently-available or soon-to-be-released end-user products. When Evolution launches fully on mainnet in a stable manner with adequate documentation and developer tooling, we will explore a second growth marketing plan to run in parallel with this one which focuses more on decentralized applications and developers.

Hybrid model

In order to improve sustainability, align incentives, and increase our accountability, we are pursuing a hybrid model where we receive part of our funding through voluntary community donations. By doing this we not only demonstrate that Dash can fund essential functions outside of the treasury’s constraints and masternode votes, but will also directly make ourselves accountable to individuals who donate their hard-earned money to make Dash succeed.

In summary, we’re fundraising the first installment of our expenses through voluntary donations, and only after we have shown there is real demand for our work will we pursue the remainder of our funding through the treasury. Full reasoning for this incentive model can be found in the Dash Structure document.



Ask

We are asking for 350 Dash. This should cover one month’s expenses and salaries, and will be held in reserve in case of a successful proposal being later de-funded, to give staff a one-month notice to wind down operations.

If the 350 goal is reached, but a treasury proposal fails, it will be used to fund a 6-month contract for a part-time business development role (after which we will re-evaluate further options).

If the 350 goal is not reached, all funds will be refunded to donor addresses.

Please donate to the following address, formerly the main address of the Dash Marketing Hub:

XjRx5Xj9G4kE4gvLT6GQKmvWMrtGPtUjkS


Donor perks

To thank donors for spending purely their own funds (as opposed to Treasury funds, which essentially come from every Dash holder) to make this proposal possible, we are prepared to give additional perks for donors of 5 or more Dash (please send me @thedesertlynx a message with the TXIDs of donations unless you wish to remain anonymous):
- Daily activity log (how hours spent doing what)
- Weekly updates and exclusive AMA (monthly updates will be provided to the greater community)
-Individual donor name/alias shout-outs (unless anonymity is explicitly requested) on proposals and the monthly Dash Podcast
-Dash Podcast NFT/superchat access, regular Afterparty invite

We have spent the past decade building the best digital cash in the world. In order to continue to do so, however, we need serious user and partnership growth. I believe that we can achieve this over the next few years through effective growth marketing and partnerships, and we are prepared to give everything we have to achieve this goal.

This document’s text (excluding this sentence) has been signed by the above address here:
H09vy8DcxSWncvNurXeD9xJV/iO6acAStEQUTTYcxJ5DNFrNSEInu16PeyAr3dm4gvJfY3xMg2rYI6NQejxvQ9U=

UPDATE

We have reached our fundraising goal! Thank you to our generous donors. If you donated, please remember to to message proof of donation so that you can be assigned the requisite donor perks.

 

[thedesertlynx]

This was originally posted via Google doc here.

Already raised over 15% of the goal, thanks so much to everyone who contributed!


@trust_thyself posted a great series of questions in Discord, which I answered there. If he posts them here I'll also post the answers I gave.

 

[vazaki3]

Why do you assume that the Dash community would want you to advertise Dash?

You should first ask a goverance question into the budget, asking the permission from the Dash community, and if succeed then you are allowed to ask individuals to fund you in order to advertise Dash.

Nobody shoud be allowed to talk in the name of Dash.

DTP should regroup and start preventing individuals/idiots from advertise Dash or talking in the name of Dash, without having an explicit permission arising from a governance question.

 

[trust_thyself]

This was originally posted via Google doc here.

Already raised over 15% of the goal, thanks so much to everyone who contributed!


@trust_thyself posted a great series of questions in Discord, which I answered there. If he posts them here I'll also post the answers I gave.

Firstly, nice to see this proposal put-forth. The more such undertakings are done by individuals and teams the more likely we’ll get “great”, rather than just “good” (or no) proposals. In other words, options are fantastic.

I do have some disagreement of what's put-forth in the second sentence of the Dash Growth document — that "the vast majority of...marketing has been done by Dash Core Group". Perhaps DCG Inc. has been the recipient of the greatest quantity of Dash that’s been allocated toward “marketing”, but has their impact been greater in absolute terms, or in the value of each Dash allocated, than other DFOs? This could be debated.

Questions for @thedesertlynx

You’ve been involved with Dash for a while. At times you’ve been engaged in marketing efforts, including Dash Force News and the Dash Marketing Hub. What take-aways do you have from those endeavors? What did you learn? Would you say that the network got value out of the Dash created to fund these activities? How do those experiences shape your approach for Dash Growth, in terms of having a more-honed perspective?

You’ve interviewed a lot of folks involved with Dash marketing (peeps from various DFOs, the last two “communications officer” of DCG Inc., etc.) as well as the marketing of other crypto networks. What has most impressed you? What have you gleaned and hope to employ via Dash Growth?

Questions for @Marine

What would you cite, from your time as DCG Inc. communications officer, where your involvement was critical to marketing success(es)

What did you learn during your time with DCG Inc. that you would do differently in retrospect re: marketing strategy or tactics?

In a previous convo on The Dash Podcast, you made the case that you weren't able to do too much due to lack of funds.

“I realized that we had limited resources, and now we can only do cheap things, or free-of-charge things…”


“At the end of the day these are good things but it’s eventually — it’s obviously not enough to achieve some good results. At the end of the day it comes down to budget.”

How relevant is that for Dash Growth, were it to be funded? Would you have more funds to work with at Dash Growth, according to the requested monthly amount, or do you believe you could to more with less funding due to it being a different structure?

Questions for @thedesertlynx or @Marine

In the "Donor Perks" section of the Dash Growth document, might the second item listed — the weekly AMAs — be expanded in scope to be a brainstorming time? Where the input of donors is sought, rather than it being just a one-way convo? Seems like, if folks believe in your idea and your team, they may also be a good source of ideas and/or a sounding board.

In your Dash Growth Marketing Plan, you note as "Goal 1" to increase Dash user adoption and give, in part, as a way to measure that, “verified signups” to on-ramps and others routes. Do you have reason to believe that such data will be accessible? That it will be shared by the entities involved?

In "5. Competitive Analysis” of your Dash Growth Marketing Plan you note that some amount of Monero’s growth has been from “anti-CBDC enthusiasts in the general population”. I would guess that segment (anti-CBDC peeps in the general population) will only increase, as nation-state regimes foist their iteration on folks. Might it be worthwhile to position Dash as the alternative to CBDCs? This also is related to your "#4 Target Audience", in which non-crypto peeps are only mentioned in the third and fourth audience group. Dash is not just competing with other cryptos (as AJ expounded on in a previous convo), but ultimately, with existing mediums of existing, and those being developed by central banks. By marketing Dash as the alternative to CBDC, might we appeal to more folks in the general population?

 

[GrandMasterDash]

I would like to direct readers to this article:
If blockchain projects sold cars: Facts vs. feelings in Web3 marketing

After all these years, the same old message - the wrong message - is being regurgitated.

First, dash is not "digital cash" because for that to be true it would at least have to be accepted in all the places that litecoin is. Not to mention, dash is not the default payment for any other project that I know of.

Secondly, when this evo bastardization goes live, users will simply view dash as the chain's utility token. There's nothing wrong with that per se, but context; dash will gain more attention being seen as web3 than digital cash.

As the above article says, stop trying to sell dash by function, no one gives AF about "InstantSend, ChainLocks, and PrivateSend". In all these years, the lesson was never learned. For any marketing to work, dash must be seen and heard as a desirable lifestyle choice.

Besides, PrivateSend is a shit experience compared to litecoin's MWEB.

 

[thedesertlynx]

Firstly, nice to see this proposal put-forth. The more such undertakings are done by individuals and teams the more likely we’ll get “great”, rather than just “good” (or no) proposals. In other words, options are fantastic.

I do have some disagreement of what's put-forth in the second sentence of the Dash Growth document — that "the vast majority of...marketing has been done by Dash Core Group". Perhaps DCG Inc. has been the recipient of the greatest quantity of Dash that’s been allocated toward “marketing”, but has their impact been greater in absolute terms, or in the value of each Dash allocated, than other DFOs? This could be debated.

Regarding the disagreement, it does get a little fuzzy with definitions of what exactly constitutes marketing, and is it money spent vs. responsibility. From 2016 (when I came to Dash) to 2023 (very recently), DCG has uninterrupted control over the Twitter account, website, YouTube, and basically all official channels. They had full-time employees responsible for marketing and communications in an official capacity (this distinction is important) for the entire time. In terms of primary responsibility, and likely total spend as well, DCG has overwhelmingly been tasked with marketing.

Questions for @thedesertlynx

You’ve been involved with Dash for a while. At times you’ve been engaged in marketing efforts, including Dash Force News and the Dash Marketing Hub. What take-aways do you have from those endeavors? What did you learn?

Most importantly, I learned that it's difficult to market in a vacuum. Trying to message one thing, while "official channels" or development progress said another thing, is really hard. It was very difficult to get on the same page with DCG in the past Ryan Taylor era, to put it bluntly. Ever since, I feel like DCG is no longer separated from Dash the same way, and they're able to be partners and work together.

I also learned that being reactionary can only go so far. Dash Force, while it evolved, was initially founded to be "troll patrol" to counter haters online. The Marketing Hub was created the way it was because Andy believed in the Incubator structure, and people were excited enough to see a major figure outside of DCG doing something that there was momentum to follow him. Moving forward, we need to be proactive: What do we need, what's the best way to do it, what results are we execting, etc.

Finally, I learned that I need to stop doing other people's dirty work for them and just do what I believe in. I didn't found Dash Force, and I feel like I was simultaneously the most public figure (who took blame for any heat or drama) and the person with the least decision-making power. I was explicitly asked by to start the HUB and use Andy's model. This time, it's my idea, and I'm pushing to do it.

Would you say that the network got value out of the Dash created to fund these activities?

Broadly, yes. I'm proud of the work Dash Force did, and we did our best with the tools we had. It may not have been #1 priority for most important marketing for Dash, but the #1 slot was taken up by DCG at the time. I'm also proud of the work we did for the Hub, but am not proud of the inefficiencies from the structure. I would say the network got 2/3 value for what it paid for. I stopped asking for money when I didn't think the network was getting a good deal anymore.

How do those experiences shape your approach for Dash Growth, in terms of having a more-honed perspective?

First, I need access to "official" Dash channels (socials, blog, etc.). Our network effects will be much weaker if we don't, and Dash will still get the "dead coin vibe." Without this, I'm not interested in pursuing this proposal. Thankfully, I have been assured that we will be able to use Dash social channels and publish posts to the website.

Second, I'm no longer seeing the Dash investor/community member as the primary target. I'm not doing troll patrol to make them happy, or keeping a bounty system around because the community thinks it's a good idea. I'm targeting potential end users of Dash, and marketing to them to actually grow the Dash community and active user base. Previously there was always an element of taking money from MNOs to market to MNOs, and I'm not making that mistake again.

Third, I'm pursuing a results-based growth marketing approach. Whether or not something worked in the past was highly subjective, but then the price would go down and people would think it didn't work. I'm actually pursuing metrics: yes, social media exposure, numbers of media hits, website visits, etc., but primarily conversions: how many new people are actually using Dash products and services? When that number go up, all other number go up, as they say.

You’ve interviewed a lot of folks involved with Dash marketing (peeps from various DFOs, the last two “communications officer” of DCG Inc., etc.) as well as the marketing of other crypto networks. What has most impressed you? What have you gleaned and hope to employ via Dash Growth?

One, Marina is very intelligent, competent, and educated on marketing in crypto. I feel like she's an actual competent professional in the field, something Dash has bafflingly missed out on hiring in the past. I believe her talents were underutilized in DCG, and I need her help and expertise to make this work the best.

Other crypto projects are focused and bold, and the successful ones leverage network effects of partners to sell their product for them. Dash's approach has been timid, unfocused, siloed, and inconsistent, and most of the space forgets we exist. Yet we have the best product. Even Nano, which has essentially no marketing aparatus, has an army of enthusiastic promoters laser-focused on the instant, no-fee, easy digital cash message. We can learn from them, and from Monero's approach to uncensorable private money, and from many others.

If we run Dash like a business, we should be able to solve the missing link between our product and potential users in a sustainable and profitable way.

In the "Donor Perks" section of the Dash Growth document, might the second item listed — the weekly AMAs — be expanded in scope to be a brainstorming time? Where the input of donors is sought, rather than it being just a one-way convo? Seems like, if folks believe in your idea and your team, they may also be a good source of ideas and/or a sounding board.

Absolutely, this is the plan. The entire reason for pursuing a donation-first approach is to financially involve as many people who care about Dash enough to part with their money as possible. It's way harder than just putting in a proposal, but I don't want apathy. I want partners holding me accountable for results, and giving me valuable feedback.

In your Dash Growth Marketing Plan, you note as "Goal 1" to increase Dash user adoption and give, in part, as a way to measure that, “verified signups” to on-ramps and others routes. Do you have reason to believe that such data will be accessible? That it will be shared by the entities involved?

Absolutely. Personally, I have 834 verified signups for Odysee, 63 for Bitrefill, 1 confirmed for Spritz, and $12,562.56 of volume through SwapSpace. This is just from my YouTube videos and I've been extremely inconsistent about letting viewers know about it, but the point is, even a small influencer can get data. Companies want to grow, and they'll pay people who help them grow (but won't pay for fake metrics).

I'm confident we can work with all major partners for confirmed referral conversions, explicitly target those with marketing campaigns, and evaluate the results and the cost-per-acquisition for a new Dash user, and look at on-chain data to see if network activity correlates with the user acquisition data we're seeing. In the past I believe we've been flying blind as far as how many Dash users there were when we have a network that's essentially free to transact on, and many DFOs incentivized to show (or fake) volume growth. But companies with revenue to make and salaries to pay won't pay us to subsidize our delusions.

 

[thedesertlynx]

This is also why I want to work with Marina. Her expertise in analytics and tracking tools is very valuable to what we're trying to accomplish.

In "5. Competitive Analysis” of your Dash Growth Marketing Plan you note that some amount of Monero’s growth has been from “anti-CBDC enthusiasts in the general population”. I would guess that segment (anti-CBDC peeps in the general population) will only increase, as nation-state regimes foist their iteration on folks. Might it be worthwhile to position Dash as the alternative to CBDCs? This also is related to your "#4 Target Audience", in which non-crypto peeps are only mentioned in the third and fourth audience group. Dash is not just competing with other cryptos (as AJ expounded on in a previous convo), but ultimately, with existing mediums of existing, and those being developed by central banks. By marketing Dash as the alternative to CBDC, might we appeal to more folks in the general population?

Yes, that's the plan. I've already been messaging this individually, urging people to actually do something about CBDCs instead of staying frozen in fear. It's basically the amplifier to the pro-liberty financial sovereignty message. This is where we get our new-to-crypto users (who once they try Dash likely won't be satisfied with inferior user experiences elsewhere).

For the crypto side of things, we are competing with other projects, just not in the way that would seem obvious to most:

-We're competing with other cryptos among crypto users for the payments use case, which isn't being used. It's not "Stop using Litecoin, use Dash", but "Start paying with crypto, use Dash".
-We're competing with crypto payments with Tether on Tron or other low-cost stablecoins.

 

[trust_thyself]

I would like to direct readers to this article:
If blockchain projects sold cars: Facts vs. feelings in Web3 marketing

After all these years, the same old message - the wrong message - is being regurgitated.

First, dash is not "digital cash" because for that to be true it would at least have to be accepted in all the places that litecoin is. Not to mention, dash is not the default payment for any other project that I know of.

Secondly, when this evo bastardization goes live, users will simply view dash as the chain's utility token. There's nothing wrong with that per se, but context; dash will gain more attention being seen as web3 than digital cash.

As the above article says, stop trying to sell dash by function, no one gives AF about "InstantSend, ChainLocks, and PrivateSend". In all these years, the lesson was never learned. For any marketing to work, dash must be seen and heard as a desirable lifestyle choice.

Besides, PrivateSend is a shit experience compared to litecoin's MWEB.

Thanks for you comment -- to encourage those engaged in marketing Dash to not just reiterate the same old talking points. Yes, it's good to evaluate and adjust as needed. And not just once but continuously.

Re: your mention of Litecoin and MimbleWimble -- not to derail this thread too much but how usable is that? My understanding is that the initial implementations of MW required both parties to be online at the same time, but that some networks (Firo) have added some functionality so that a payment sent can be claimed so long as the receiver gets online within 12hrs.

And, on a related note what about Dash's privacy offering? I saw @thedesertlynx recently put-forth that it was the best CoinJoin implementation around. One thing about it that does stand out (as opposed to other network's use of CoinJoin) is that it's protocol-level. But years ago the folks at Chainalysis claimed to have de-anonymized CoinJoin -- how valid is that? Even if it today takes a lot of bandwidth to do that for one user, it seems like a chink in the armor -- that such ability could be make more efficient (and thus make CoinJoin less strong) with new tech/tools/etc. Thoughts?

 

[GrandMasterDash]

So not to get too off topic, I will create a separate thread, but being the OP mentioned PrivateSend, I will say the user experience for mixing on dash takes hours to complete, creating a window of opportunity for an attacker to deanonymize e.g. attempt to knock a VPN offline to reveal the underlying IP (a faster route than issuing a VPN with court orders).

In contrast, MWEB currently works from a full desktop node (or CLI). The litecoin blockchain is larger than dash but once synced the application is no worse / heavy than the dash desktop wallet. Deposit litecoin into a pool, spend later when you're ready. That's it really, it's very straight forward. In time, MWEB will also work with light wallets.

The user experience between dash and litecoin privacy is day and night. To me, at least, it makes no sense to promote such feature in it's current state. But more importantly, the marketing message must not be a function, it must be lifestyle and aspiration. If OP wants to promote "living unbanked" then I suggest his target audience is not your average american or european.

 

[kot]

Good initiative. Thank you @thedesertlynx

 

[thedesertlynx]

Thanks! We're almost ready for the proposal stage.

 

[thedesertlynx]

We have reached our crowdfunding goal! Thank you to all the donors who have made this possible! Please remember to get in contact with me to claim donor perks.

Next step is a proposal. If all goes well, we should be ready to start work January 1st. Let's make 2024 Dash's comeback year!

 

[vazaki3]

Next step is a proposal. If all goes well, we should be ready to start work January 1st. Let's make 2024 Dash's comeback year!

Watch your steps.
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#13

---

"Look at Hecate, standing guard at the crossroads, one face looking in each direction." - Ovid

 

[vazaki3]

I'm actually pursuing metrics: yes, social media exposure, numbers of media hits, website visits, etc., but primarily conversions: how many new people are actually using Dash products and services? When that number go up, all other number go up, as they say.

AMA is only for smart persons. Are you smart enough for AMA?

If you really care about conversions, how do you plan to discover the converted individuals and prove how many they really are? How do you plan to prove how many the fake individuals (aka robots) are? Have you ever posted or voted anything related to any kind of proof of personhood ? Why do you abtsained from the proof of personhood concept since 2017? Was it deliberate, or by ignorance? Do you have an agenda on that, or you used to be stupid all this time and now you are enlightened? Do you know @lynx ?

I currently have 91 real persons, ready to be converted and become dash community members.
How many REAL persons do you have?

I dont hope that you will answer me. As usually, when I ask you questions, you remain speechless.

 

[GrandMasterDash]

If you really care about conversions, how do you plan to discover the converted individuals and prove how many they really are? How do you plan to prove how many the fake individuals (aka robots) are?

I think Marine is competent at google analytics etc but, for me, that is the problem; using google shows little understanding for dash's end users privacy. There are tools that don't use google at all. OTOH, now that I accept dash is not "digital cash", I don't think I care so much how she does it.

 

[thedesertlynx]

Dash Growth Update

This year, Dash Growth hit the ground running in implementing our growth strategy, starting with establishing the basic necessary tools, practices, and pipelines which were previously not correctly set up. First, to implement our heavily content-based marketing strategy, we brought content channels up to speed (X/Twitter, the Dash blog, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube) and implemented a content calendar to ensure proper coverage of vetted posts. We have also consistently created and disseminated content across these channels, pursuing an X-first approach. In the future we will be able to focus on purpose-building content for specific channels first. On X alone we have increased our reach by over 4x over the monthly averages of last year.

For business development, we first and foremost established an internal list of partners and partner interactions. This did not previously exist, and the best source of partners was the main Dash public-facing website. This meant we now have to manually restart most business relationships from zero, cold-email partners which have long supported Dash, reach out via X etc., and in some cases even ask partners if this was our first time communicating or if they had relationships with previous business development officers at Dash. This is now solved, and we have a list of partners and interactions which we will continue to grow and leverage.

A second major issue we have had to address was the lack of a reliable block explorer API to recommend to partners. Previously, if a partner sought to recognize InstantSend payments, they would have to run their own Dash node under a custom setup. We had no reliable plug-and-play block explorer API to recommend. Thankfully, that's now fixed. We have partnered with Blockchair to fix their InstantSend recognition, and now wallets and services can simply use their service to recognize InstantSend. This is a major first step towards ensuring that all Dash-accepting services have the instant transaction experience we enjoy.

Our overall combined business development and marketing strategy is as follows:

1) Contact all existing partners and Dash-supporting services, companies, apps, etc. and form relationships.
2) Establish co-promotion relationships where we will create and share content promoting their business and they will reciprocate, share Spaces on X, etc.
3) Ensure all partners support Dash’s special features (InstantSend at a minimum), are current with branding and logos, have correct marketing material on Dash, etc.
4) Build affiliate relationships wherever possible, where Dash-supporting services will at a minimum track, and possibly even compensate us, for every new customer we send their way. This is key to our growth strategy as it allows us to concretely measure how many new users we’re acquiring, which strategies are working, which are not, etc.

We have spent the past roughly 6 weeks building our foundations and contacting partners. Several new partnerships and feature integrations are in the works and will be announced in the coming weeks and months. For right now, however, we can confirm that merchant point-of-sale and ecommerce solution ivendPay now supports InstantSend transactions. Additionally, we have a referral relationship with Spritz Finance, a service which lets users (mostly in the US at the moment) pay all their bills with Dash, use a reloadable virtual card for everyday expenses, and more. When recommending Spritz to new potential Dash users, please use the following link:
https://spritz.finance/dash

Finally, we have identified a source of major blockages for Dash with some of the largest potential partners in the payments space. We will keep the community updated as much as we’re able to say publicly, but resolving this issue, if possible, may be capital-intensive (though worth every penny). We are mentioning this early so that the community can begin to prepare expectations in advance.