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Pre-proposal: Community Stipends

When should the Community Stipends proposal be submitted?

  • This month: It's a good idea, let's use available funds now

  • Next month: It's a good idea, but we need more time to discuss

  • Never, I don't like the proposal


Results are only viewable after voting.

rion

Active member
I made a video presenting some ideas I have. The goal is to promote (incentivize) more community contribution, and at the same time alleviate pressure from masternode operators. It would also help Dash become more decentralized. Feel free to watch the video at 1.5x speed to make it quicker.

The video is here:

Pretty much the same content is provided in this document:
https://github.com/dashcommunity/proposal-community-stipends/blob/master/proposal.md

The presentation/document contains enough of a framework so that this could potentially enter this month's proposal cycle, if we want to use some of the remaining funds. However, if it's not clear enough and we need more time to flesh out the concept then I'd certainly be happy to shoot for next month, or not at all if it's a terrible idea :) You all decide. I'll make a poll to check community sentiment.

Happy to answer any questions.

-Rion
 
Hi rion,
I am not a masternode owner (though I own 35 shares, maybe that counts a little bit ;)) - but I just wanted to let you and the voters here know, that I am Connie in your example. You gave a really accurate description of this type of person!

I can't think of anything else but DASH at the moment, all I do is talk about it, write about it and think about how to get more women into DASH.
I'm hesitating putting in a proposal for the same reasons you mention (5DASH is a lot at the moment) but also because I don't know how to quantify "thinking about DASH" :) and feel I have to show more results first before I can ask to get paid for it.

I did consider putting in a small proposal now, seeing that the month is almost over and there is still budget left. It seemed to be perfect timing. But then I thought about all the masternode owners who have to look at it, think about it, and make a decision. After browsing through all the existing proposals I became aware of how much work that actually is, and that being a masternode owner is actually a proper "job"! This made me NOT submit a proposal because I thought there's no way they will manage to do that, and better wait for next month.

So - while I didn't go into all the details of your solution - I just wanted to support you and let you know that you really did spot an important issue.
I like your idea from a contributor's and potential "receiver's" point of view, and I can imagine that the masternode owners would also appreciate a solution for this.

Good luck!!
Anja
 
I like this idea and eventually we will need to integrate some sort of system like the one you're proposing. it's probably worth testing it out now. I like it mainly because I think smaller scale projects are reluctant to propose because of the anti-spam fee. For example, I think this could be good for growing the number of Dash meetups quite fast. You might have a target that you want to get 20 Dash meetups set up globally? But of course you need good people to lead these meetups. Would you be posting job openings and interviewing participants and how would you go about doing that? You could probably have a slack channel for this and co-ordinate from there? I think if it was advertised people would apply in droves. I see a lot of potential in this and looking forward to your proposal.
 
Hi @rion for disclosure I'm part of the growing Dash Force team and what you describe in video is already in place and being funded. This is exactly what Dash Force is doing right now.

It's a bit confusing for me as you say you want money but give no real details and insight to the projects you want the money to go to?.... The projects you very briefly mention are already in place?.... Can you give more details on this as it doesn't sound too well thought out in its current form. You covered the admin side well, but I would like to know where the money is going to used as it sounds like you don't know yet. So proposal wise it seems a bit premature. Masternode owners like transparency and details of exactly how funds are going to be spent.

Project wise you only mention rewarding meetups and articles. Which is being done already by Dash Force. So i'm not sure what is new you are bringing to the table here..... It seems like you have tried to replicate what Dash Force currently do by asking for money but offer no details on the projects you want money to go to. I feel this is what you should be focusing on and detailing in your video. As people want to know how the Dash will be spent not just how you are going to do admin.

For those not privy to Dash Force we already encourage and holds contests for meetups, rewards for finding, creating articles, posting and sharing them with community, you've probably seen us tipping people in slack. We also do reddit, twitter and youtube patrol rewarding high value comments and helping newcomers. We are a growing united team of Dash members that is also starting a mod squad to help support slack moderators as the community has grown so much and now requires more attention. We are already liaising with Business Devs to run community projects to new business partnerships with Dash running contests such as Bitfinex and more recently Wall of Coins to help give exposure and encourage community participation. We're also looking to support #women_of_dash to help grow community there. The structure and organised nature of Dash Force was why I joined as it's better to work as a team and shows true community spirit. People on different time zones offering support 24/7.

My understanding is that Dash Force offered to help you and extended their hand in friendship even offering you to join and come in under the umbrella to collaborate and work together with the rest of the team to the benefit of whole community. To which you declined as you wanted to do your own thing. Having additional competing community outreach and support programs doing the exact same thing in the same space will make things confusing for community. This is not the Tao way. I don't want to split the community and I already sense a divide having spoke to a few team members that have expressed mixed feelings about your intentions.

I want to give you the benefit of the doubt so really hoping you can provide more details as I've had no communication with you previously that I'm aware of. I'm only familiar with your previous proposal https://www.dashcentral.org/p/dash-community for 250 Dash for https://dashcommunity.github.io/proposal-dash-community/ which no one ended up using as it wasn't well thought out. So with respect please forgive me for sounding a little skeptical. My concern is your now back again with a new proposal offering something very similar to what is in place already. After you refused open invitation and help from Dash Force team that just wanted to help you out. I'm being extra cautious here.

Dash Force is successful and working well, I'd much rather work together as a team on a united front to reach a common goal. I'm happy to talk about how we can all work together to reach an objective and attempt to fix broken bridges with communication with other members of team if you show genuine intent. I'm assuming right now that you just want to do you own thing and don't like team work.

I want Dash to succeed and I personally feel we have the best community. The more we can help grow and support the Dash community from a grass roots level I'm all for. However I do have some very strong concerns as it seems you want to directly compete with an existing proposal and not bring anything new to the table. It sounds like a copy and paste job with Community Stipend replacing Dash Force. I'm worried as from what I have heard about you so far is you that you refuse to collab and want to do things your way. I believe in working together as a united front in the same community space. Now, if this was in another part of the world for an international community I'd be all for it.
 
Where will the insentives be? Primarily on the forum or part of dash nation and the slack dash_talk too?

The ideas is this would set up a prime contractor / subcontractor relationship. The money would go to an administration team who would then evaluate subcontract proposals for the best projects, and then pay them upon completing their respective scopes of work. The payment just happens on the Dash network, but collaboration could happen anywhere, most likely #community channel on Slack and/or here in the forums.
 
Hi rion,
I am not a masternode owner (though I own 35 shares, maybe that counts a little bit ;)) - but I just wanted to let you and the voters here know, that I am Connie in your example. You gave a really accurate description of this type of person!

I can't think of anything else but DASH at the moment, all I do is talk about it, write about it and think about how to get more women into DASH.
I'm hesitating putting in a proposal for the same reasons you mention (5DASH is a lot at the moment) but also because I don't know how to quantify "thinking about DASH" :) and feel I have to show more results first before I can ask to get paid for it.

I did consider putting in a small proposal now, seeing that the month is almost over and there is still budget left. It seemed to be perfect timing. But then I thought about all the masternode owners who have to look at it, think about it, and make a decision. After browsing through all the existing proposals I became aware of how much work that actually is, and that being a masternode owner is actually a proper "job"! This made me NOT submit a proposal because I thought there's no way they will manage to do that, and better wait for next month.

So - while I didn't go into all the details of your solution - I just wanted to support you and let you know that you really did spot an important issue.
I like your idea from a contributor's and potential "receiver's" point of view, and I can imagine that the masternode owners would also appreciate a solution for this.

Good luck!!
Anja
Thanks for your vote of confidence of the concept, Aniil. I appreciate you taking the time to post your thoughts. They sound very familiar to me, and I don't think we're the only ones who would appreciate this kind of arrangement. If you do go ahead and watch the video or read the document please ask about what didn't make sense, is still foggy and needs clarification, etc. I don't have all the answers, but I have thought about it a lot and have more ideas about it than I shared. The video was already getting too long, so I figured I'd clear things up in discussion. Plus, I'm sure other people have valuable feedback on how they think it should work, so I didn't want to just come with a fully formed solution that people just take or leave.

Thanks again, Rion
 
I like this idea and eventually we will need to integrate some sort of system like the one you're proposing. it's probably worth testing it out now. I like it mainly because I think smaller scale projects are reluctant to propose because of the anti-spam fee. For example, I think this could be good for growing the number of Dash meetups quite fast. You might have a target that you want to get 20 Dash meetups set up globally? But of course you need good people to lead these meetups. Would you be posting job openings and interviewing participants and how would you go about doing that? You could probably have a slack channel for this and co-ordinate from there? I think if it was advertised people would apply in droves. I see a lot of potential in this and looking forward to your proposal.
Hello Hillscent, thanks for your reply. What I have in mind is more of a pull-system, where I (or whoever does the admin) accept proposals from people. That way community members feel empowered to submit exactly what they are interested in, passionate about, and capable of delivering well. The admin would just evaluate them (with as much community input desired) to see where the funding should go. I started a slack channel simply called #community a while ago on one of my previous proposals. I would use that channel, and maybe a forum post here so there is a static record if people think that would be valuable. Thanks again, Rion
 
Hi @rion for disclosure I'm part of the growing Dash Force team and what you describe in video is already in place and being funded. This is exactly what Dash Force is doing right now.

It's a bit confusing for me as you say you want money but give no real details and insight to the projects you want the money to go to?.... The projects you very briefly mention are already in place?.... Can you give more details on this as it doesn't sound too well thought out in its current form. You covered the admin side well, but I would like to know where the money is going to used as it sounds like you don't know yet. So proposal wise it seems a bit premature. Masternode owners like transparency and details of exactly how funds are going to be spent.

Project wise you only mention rewarding meetups and articles. Which is being done already by Dash Force. So i'm not sure what is new you are bringing to the table here..... It seems like you have tried to replicate what Dash Force currently do by asking for money but offer no details on the projects you want money to go to. I feel this is what you should be focusing on and detailing in your video. As people want to know how the Dash will be spent not just how you are going to do admin.

For those not privy to Dash Force we already encourage and holds contests for meetups, rewards for finding, creating articles, posting and sharing them with community, you've probably seen us tipping people in slack. We also do reddit, twitter and youtube patrol rewarding high value comments and helping newcomers. We are a growing united team of Dash members that is also starting a mod squad to help support slack moderators as the community has grown so much and now requires more attention. We are already liaising with Business Devs to run community projects to new business partnerships with Dash running contests such as Bitfinex and more recently Wall of Coins to help give exposure and encourage community participation. We're also looking to support #women_of_dash to help grow community there. The structure and organised nature of Dash Force was why I joined as it's better to work as a team and shows true community spirit. People on different time zones offering support 24/7.

My understanding is that Dash Force offered to help you and extended their hand in friendship even offering you to join and come in under the umbrella to collaborate and work together with the rest of the team to the benefit of whole community. To which you declined as you wanted to do your own thing. Having additional competing community outreach and support programs doing the exact same thing in the same space will make things confusing for community. This is not the Tao way. I don't want to split the community and I already sense a divide having spoke to a few team members that have expressed mixed feelings about your intentions.

I want to give you the benefit of the doubt so really hoping you can provide more details as I've had no communication with you previously that I'm aware of. I'm only familiar with your previous proposal https://www.dashcentral.org/p/dash-community for 250 Dash for https://dashcommunity.github.io/proposal-dash-community/ which no one ended up using as it wasn't well thought out. So with respect please forgive me for sounding a little skeptical. My concern is your now back again with a new proposal offering something very similar to what is in place already. After you refused open invitation and help from Dash Force team that just wanted to help you out. I'm being extra cautious here.

Dash Force is successful and working well, I'd much rather work together as a team on a united front to reach a common goal. I'm happy to talk about how we can all work together to reach an objective and attempt to fix broken bridges with communication with other members of team if you show genuine intent. I'm assuming right now that you just want to do you own thing and don't like team work.

I want Dash to succeed and I personally feel we have the best community. The more we can help grow and support the Dash community from a grass roots level I'm all for. However I do have some very strong concerns as it seems you want to directly compete with an existing proposal and not bring anything new to the table. It sounds like a copy and paste job with Community Stipend replacing Dash Force. I'm worried as from what I have heard about you so far is you that you refuse to collab and want to do things your way. I believe in working together as a united front in the same community space. Now, if this was in another part of the world for an international community I'd be all for it.

Hi Mark, thanks for your message. You are correct. I have been in communication with one of your DashForce team members, and we discussed how we could work together. I was the one who reached out to DashForce exactly because I thought it could fit well within your team's offering. To my knowledge though, DashForce has primarily been doing tip-based incentives, not really like the "stipends" I was proposing. In addition, DF seemed to be doing a push-based model where DF would come up with exactly what needed to be done, and provide specific, small (tip)-scale, one-time incentives to do just that. I was proposing more of a pull-based system where people could come up with their own scopes of work, schedule's, and budgets (with some max, which I called 10 DASH). This way they are doing exactly what they want to do, and have more autonomy and stability in their work efforts. Their work load would more approach that of a part- or even full-time employee (albeit getting paid a less-than-market-rate stipend, at least to begin). Once their SOW were approved (with their clearly defined deliverables), then they would need to stick to them to get paid. That solves another challenge we've seen with some proposals.

As for the personal interactions with your DashForce team member, I decided to not say anything about that for the sake of privacy, and not drumming up any unnecessary drama. But I am more than happy to share the full, exact conversation with anyone who is interested. Long story short, I wanted to work with DashForce. I wanted them to administer this program, which is why I reached out with my thoughts, and made my intent to collaborate publicly known. But as the private conversation went on I felt I was being treated with a fair amount of condescension, where I was told repeatedly to "chill out" and just let DashForce handle everything. I didn't think that was the best approach for a well known community member to be treating a junior colleague who just wants to help out, and is struggling to find a way to do so. I've done a lot for Dash and I intend to continue doing a lot. My intentions are good.

As I mentioned in other replies, I have more details worked out, and have thought things through more than what I presented. I have a lot of experience with technical proposals (outside of Dash) and I've found that managers and executives just want the basics; they don't want you to bother them with all the details, as it takes up their time, and they hired you because they trust your judgement, and they can evaluate your results. If people have specific questions I'm happy to answer them, but I didn't want to have a 4-page document or a 2-hour video describing all the nitty gritty details of something if there was no general interest to launch from. Another reason I don't have all the details, is that they are not yet decided, because no RFP has been sent out, and no subcontractors have been approved yet. They are the ones who would come up with some of the details that they are pursuing. Like you said, I just mostly covered the admin side of things, because I want to leave people with the freedom to innovate on their own ideas, and just come to admin for approval. I proposed this with a relatively low cost (I think there is much more demand than 30 DASH worth of valuable subcontracts to fund) because I see it as a pilot program. If favorable results are delivered, the pilot continues, if not, it dies without too much risk. I pushed to get the discussion started earlier than later so that MNOs would have the option of funding such a pilot program when there are ample funds available, making the pilot even lower risk to some degree. Who knows how congested following months' budgets are going to be.

Real quick, to address the "redundancy" issue. I have a background in the industrial manufacturing industry, and it's almost universally understood that redundancy is not only not bad, it's completely necessary. Plus, even if our respective teams ended up serving the same needs, I don't see that as competition, I see that as collaboration, as long as people remain amicable with each other, which I intend to do.
 
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Rion contacted me about running this proposal for him last night and wanted me to read it and sign off on it immediately so he could submit it in this month's proposal cycle. I told him I would be happy to help him but that it lacked details and needed to be fixed as a lot of the stuff he was wanting to do was already being done by DashForce and others. He continued to be very pushy and persistent and said he did not want to run the program but just for me to pick him as one of the side projects to be funded and “compensate” him for his still unknown software project. I was aware of his earlier github proposal which was not run very well IMO and proved to be a waste of funds, I did not want to fund another project like that. I found myself using the word “redundancy” a lot when speaking with him but he did not see that as a problem, I see that as a waste of funds.


We/DashForce have been working with several community members and core on a wide range of projects and have never had any kind of problems. I tried to tell him it was not a good idea to propose this project at the last minute with zero pre proposal discussion and no clear plan. I told him MN owners don't like having giant proposals dumped on them at the last minute and that is not how we do things around here. He said core and others had done it but I pointed out they had a solid track record of delivering successful proposals and he did not. He said he wanted to “decentralize” things by centralizing them into his one proposal which also did not make a lot of sense to me.

I'm happy to work with anyone who presents our team with a solid plan with deliverable goals that will benefit the community, I don't see this project fitting that description in its current form.
 
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Apologies for the delayed response to anyone who is following this - I just got back from a very nice trip which included Dash's open house and a trip to Zion National Park.

I am happy to discuss this proposal, and any genuine concerns that arise. Mastermined's message contains both legitimate concerns as well as mischaracterizations. These mischaracterizations are disappointing coming from such a prominent member of this community, particularly when such behavior is expressly prohibited by the forum on which it occurred (Slack), which mastermined moderates. I would have preferred to handle our personal disagreements privately, but I will defend myself when attacked publicly.

If you don't care to slog through my response, here's the summary: I disagree with mastermined's characterization of me and of our conversation. Mastermined references a private conversation which is the back story to his comment. I am comfortable sharing that conversation in it's entirety. Reading that would be the only way you could judge for yourself what my actions and intentions were. Anyone wanting this can ask mastermined if he is comfortable sharing the conversation, and I would be happy to provide it. I doubt anyone is, but I'd be happy to share.

Rion contacted me about running this proposal for him last night and wanted me to read it and sign off on it immediately so he could submit it in this month's proposal cycle.... He continued to be very pushy and persistent and said he did not want to run the program but just for me to pick him as one of the side projects to be funded and “compensate” him for his still unknown software project.

I contacted mastermined because I wanted to discuss the idea. My intent was not to "push" him to sign off on anything "immediately". Since his organization (DashForce) was already established with a track record of trust and success I felt that the program I had come up with could potentially fit well within his offering. Because the program was specifically designed to assist MNOs in their duties, I wanted to give them a chance to vote on it and pass it this month, because there were ample funds. Both in my video and in our conversation I said that this program was something I could run, but would also be happy if someone else (like DashForce) wanted to run it. I just wanted the program to exist. I never said or implied that my purpose was to get someone to just "pick [me]", either for admin or for subcontract work. I said I would be willing to work as admin or subcontractor on this program, yes, but I would have to win over the MNOs as an admin, or compete with other applicants as a subcontractor. Of course I'm interested in getting compensation for valuable work; that is the whole point of this proposed program. I wouldn't expect to get paid for some "unknown software project". In my video I specifically said that all projects would send specific proposals (with detailed scope, schedule, and budget) to the admin. They would only get paid if and when they provided their deliverables. Was I being "very pushy"? Only if you consider words on a page "very pushy". I was assertive regarding what I wanted to accomplish, as anyone with a vision he believes in should be, but I consider all that I wrote to be respectful. I simply wanted to know mastermined's opinion as early as possible so that I could write the pre-proposal accordingly and send it out in time for MNOs to give it feedback. I made it clear that my haste was to give MNOs the opportunity to put unused funds to work.

I was aware of his earlier github proposal which was not run very well IMO and proved to be a waste of funds, I did not want to fund another project like that. I found myself using the word “redundancy” a lot when speaking with him but he did not see that as a problem, I see that as a waste of funds.

Whether my earlier proposal was run well or was a waste of funds is up to each individual to decide. I admit that it hasn't caught on and grown as quickly as I would have liked it to, but I have far from given up on my efforts to make that project successful. Some projects take more time and effort to complete, and some of that is out of my control, but I'm still working on it and I'm confident that it will be more valuable in the near future. Regarding redundancy, please see the last paragraph of my response to Mark Mason's comment above.

I tried to tell him it was not a good idea to propose this project at the last minute with zero pre proposal discussion and no clear plan. I told him MN owners don't like having giant proposals dumped on them at the last minute and that is not how we do things around here. He said core and others had done it but I pointed out they had a solid track record of delivering successful proposals and he did not.

I took mastermined's advice here, and did not propose anything to the network. Instead I simply posted this pre-proposal video and document. I see no problem with putting a proposal directly to the network for MNOs to assess or ignore as they like. It's simply offering to serve them. I also see the value in preceding such with a pre-proposal discussion so that MNOs can give input on what gets proposed. In this specific case I didn't have time to do that. Because of the high cost of proposals I didn't want to put something up that wouldn't fit in the budget after core put in their proposals, so I was waiting for those to roll in. It started to became more likely that, even if core would submit more proposals, they probably wouldn't fill up the budget, so I decided it was at least possible to get the Community Stipends project passed with the right community support. Again, I simply wanted to give MNOs the option.

He said he wanted to “decentralize” things by centralizing them into his one proposal which also did not make a lot of sense to me.

I didn't say or imply that I wanted to "centralize things into [my] one proposal". I said the exact opposite in my video. The way that this project promotes decentralization is that it gives current and potential community contributors an avenue to work for Dash and get compensated for it even if they are not on the Core team. The last part of my video explains this. In fact, for anyone reading this, the last 6 minutes of my video is a good summary of my overall vision and intention with this proposal.

Someone stumbling on the last post by mastermined would probably conclude that I'm some kind of troll trying to trick the MNOs into handing over money to me without providing anything in return. I'm hoping to dispel that. My intentions are good and I am more than willing to provide value before getting paid. I respect mastermined for what he has contributed to Dash. He certainly works hard defending against trolls and such. Perhaps I am being treated like one due to that history. I just have a hard time understanding how it is justified for him and his team to publicly oppose an effort that is compatible with and complementary to what DashForce is doing. I have no interest in infighting here. I'd rather focus our efforts on defeating our common opponents, whether that is Paypal, or the State. I am doing my best to help Dash and I'm willing to put in the work to make my efforts valuable here, but I need to have a financially sustainable path to do that. If that doesn't exist I'm going to make it. Many people are ready to work for Dash, but need compensation to continue (or start) their efforts. Everyone doing that on the treasury is not sustainable. it's too taxing on both the contributors and the MNOs alike.

I will be posing more ideas about how I see the Community Stipends program working as well as an updated proposal on the #community channel in the Dash Nation Slack. I have a lot of ideas but I haven't spelled out most of them for reasons I gave in my response to Mark Mason (see 3rd paragraph). I welcome input and feedback from all of you; I don't want to dictate all the details. I want it to be more of an open discussion, since this is a pilot program.

Thank you for your time and consideration. Happy to answer any other questions.
 
Hi rion,
I am not a masternode owner (though I own 35 shares, maybe that counts a little bit ;)) - but I just wanted to let you and the voters here know, that I am Connie in your example. You gave a really accurate description of this type of person!

I can't think of anything else but DASH at the moment, all I do is talk about it, write about it and think about how to get more women into DASH.
I'm hesitating putting in a proposal for the same reasons you mention (5DASH is a lot at the moment) but also because I don't know how to quantify "thinking about DASH" :) and feel I have to show more results first before I can ask to get paid for it.

I did consider putting in a small proposal now, seeing that the month is almost over and there is still budget left. It seemed to be perfect timing. But then I thought about all the masternode owners who have to look at it, think about it, and make a decision. After browsing through all the existing proposals I became aware of how much work that actually is, and that being a masternode owner is actually a proper "job"! This made me NOT submit a proposal because I thought there's no way they will manage to do that, and better wait for next month.

So - while I didn't go into all the details of your solution - I just wanted to support you and let you know that you really did spot an important issue.
I like your idea from a contributor's and potential "receiver's" point of view, and I can imagine that the masternode owners would also appreciate a solution for this.

Good luck!!
Anja


I couldn't agree more nor could I have said it better lol!
 
Well, since my idea to reduce Proposal fee to 0.1 DASH is squarely rejected by the DASH community, perhaps moving to some kind of two-level hierarchy is the way to go.

So that small projects can get voted and funded not by Masternodes directly, but by some 3rd party non-profit organization. I definitely would like to have some kind for small community leaders and academics to get funded by the Dash community this way or the other.
 
So that small projects can get voted and funded not by Masternodes directly, but by some 3rd party non-profit organization. I definitely would like to have some kind for small community leaders and academics to get funded by the Dash community this way or the other.

And how those 3rd party non-profit organizations will be governed?
 
Governed by centralized administrators, whom are a well-known part of the Dash community. Perhaps even several people.
There is no other way that I can see, especially after my proposal of fee reduction was voted against.
 
Governed by centralized administrators, whom are a well-known part of the Dash community. Perhaps even several people.
There is no other way that I can see, especially after my proposal of fee reduction was voted against.

So you also fall into the pit of centralization. Its a pitty , but this is the sad truth. Stupidity, which is the biggest force of the Universe, leads to centralization.

There is a single hope, if we want to smash the centralized stupids. Small governance questions for the stupid to be able to answer, and a decision tree should be built. This is the road that leads to decentralization, but nobody wants to try it.

Nobody wants to try to vote the numbers also. Although the stupids are arguing more than a month for the proposal fee number, nobody dares to vote this number. Why this is happening? It is stupidity again, the biggest force of the universe, that hides below this denial.
 
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Well, since my idea to reduce Proposal fee to 0.1 DASH is squarely rejected by the DASH community, perhaps moving to some kind of two-level hierarchy is the way to go.

So that small projects can get voted and funded not by Masternodes directly, but by some 3rd party non-profit organization. I definitely would like to have some kind for small community leaders and academics to get funded by the Dash community this way or the other.

Yes indeed, something like that is being worked on by myself and several other community members. It will not just cover smaller project but will be a larger review committee to help people with their proposals and then fund them if they meet certain criteria that the community all agrees on. Things like.... don't submit a 12 month proposal, a minimum pre proposal discussion period, don't dump huge projects on the Masternodes owners at the last minute and several other things we can all agree on. From there we will tackle the tougher issues and work out of differences.
This is a major undertaking that requires lots of preparation and community discussion.
Take a look at https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/proposal-evaluation-committee.13952/
and join the conversation.
 
Yes indeed, something like that is being worked on by myself and several other community members. It will not just cover smaller project but will be a larger review committee to help people with their proposals and then fund them if they meet certain criteria that the community all agrees on. Things like.... don't submit a 12 month proposal, a minimum pre proposal discussion period, don't dump huge projects on the Masternodes owners at the last minute and several other things we can all agree on. From there we will tackle the tougher issues and work out of differences.
This is a major undertaking that requires lots of preparation and community discussion.
Take a look at https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/proposal-evaluation-committee.13952/
and join the conversation.

How do you know that the community all agrees on? Have you ever tried to ask the masternodes if they agree? Or you are just assuming that they all agree, and you create rules based on your arbitrary assumptions?

Shame on you! You are trying to talk on behalf of the people, but you dont ask the people! This is exactly what all the filthy politicians are doing.

For all your assumptions, and for each one of them, you should pay the 5 dash proposal fee, in order to ask the masternodes whether they agree or not. Otherwise you are a politician scammer, you want to impose your assumptions to the people without asking anyone. But wait, those governance questions cost a lot! Maybe we should diminish the cost of the governance questions, shouldnt we? Now you dont like the 5 dash fee, do you? Ηypocrite!
 
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How do you know that the community all agrees on?
Have you ask the masternodes if they agree?
Or you are assuming that they are agree, and you create rules based on your assumption?

Shame on you! You are trying to talk on behalf of the community, but you dont ask the community!

For all your assumptions, and for each one of them, you should pay the 5 dash proposal fee, in order to ask the masternodes whether they agree or not. Otherwise you are a scammer, you want to apply your assumption to the community without asking anyone. Now you dont like the 5 dash fee, do you? Ηypocrite!

Nothing is set in stone. Once we make a list of things we believe everyone will agree on we will present it to the community for feedback.
Have you even read what is being planned?
https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/proposal-evaluation-committee.13952/

I don't agree with everything that is in @Biltong outline as it is a bit too bureaucratic for me but i think we can work out our differences and present something a bit different to the community for feedback. I will be sending him several other similar docs that have been sent to me by other community leaders for review. This discussion is just beginning and will take time to figure it all out. We are not rushing into anything and the community is being asked to join the discussion now so we can get more ideas. See you there...
https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/proposal-evaluation-committee.13952/
 
Nothing is set in stone. Once we make a list of things we believe everyone will agree on we will present it to the community for feedback.

You shouldnt believe that everyone agree. You should PROVE that everyone agree. And the only way to prove this is to ask a question in the only place where all masternodes may be found. In the governance system. Let them vote. Wherever else you present your list, it will be a fake place, and the feedback will be unreal.

Stop believing. Stop living in your own bubble. Start knowing. You will be surprised when you will prove the voted truth. And the voted truth is that the stupidity in this universe is bottomless. But yet, the only hope is trying to make the stupid clever, because otherwise the stupidity multiply and it will crush everything like a gravitational black hole.
 
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