Why do we need miners?

Bugeater

Member
May 16, 2015
51
35
58
Costa Rica
Can we just have the masternodes do the minning?
If we don't need huge machines do mine then why can't our masternodes mine as well?

Masternode owners love and care about the future of Dash. They own 1000 Dash which makes us invested. Miners probably own zero dash and could care less if we fail tomorrow as they will just mine another coin.

Makes sense to keep the money in house unless miners are needed. Masternodes is brilliant so why not take this a step further? We got 3500 IP's around the world we could use right now and that is decentralized big time.
 

flare

Administrator
Dash Core Team
Moderator
May 18, 2014
2,287
2,406
1,183
Germany
Can someone explain why? I don't understand why the task of miners cannot be done by masternodes.
It is one of the fundamentals how blockchains work: find the solution of a mathematical riddle by brute force. This task is by design resource consuming, which implies that finding the solution is a "proof-of-work".

What you are asking for is to have the masternodes do proof-of-work instead of miners. The question is: how? You need to find a operation which is

1) resource consuming
2) easy to verify
3) can only be done by masternodes

Evan and me have discussed about this many months ago, and we did not find a solution to satisfy all three. Maybe you have a idea?
 

SnowHater

Active Member
Dec 25, 2015
299
221
113
Well, I don't understand it either. If we have ASICs now, then the miners is point of failure in terms of decentralization. So either we change the mining algorithm to prevent centralization caused by ASICs or we lower miners 45% reward to 10% or something like that.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: nik443 and Bugeater

flare

Administrator
Dash Core Team
Moderator
May 18, 2014
2,287
2,406
1,183
Germany
Changing the algorithm will not prevent the development of ASICs: whenever the incentive for developing these is high enough it will be done.

Evan originally designed the X11 algorithm chaining to prevent ASICs to be available from day 1 - not to make them impossible. He wanted to have the same evolution in hashing equipment as seen in Bitcoin: CPU -> GPU -> FPGA -> ASIC - which is exactly what happened.

For me the arrival of X11 ASICs is the next natural step in the evolution of Dash.
 
  • Like
Reactions: raganius

SnowHater

Active Member
Dec 25, 2015
299
221
113
Changing the algorithm will not prevent the development of ASICs: whenever the incentive for developing these is high enough it will be done.
I wouldn't be so sure about it in place of ASIC manufacturer if DASH defiantly changes its algo let's say twice a year. Could have big material losses on that :D.

I believe that true value of mining isn't in its hashrate rather in its level of decentralization. So, if we have mining (as a whole) which quality is poor why should we still pay old 45% to it as in early days? In that case all of 45% reward could go to just few people.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: nik443

raganius

cryptoPag.com
Foundation Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
So it is even worse then. (...)
What is even worse?

(...) What is so bad about the fuss? Let's discuss the problem.
Because this is a nonsense discussion. Waste of time and energy, that should better be directed to productive things, instead of more empty complaints.
 

Bugeater

Member
May 16, 2015
51
35
58
Costa Rica
First we need to agree, that YES, we want masternodes to mine, and to eliminate miners. I would think this would be a positive. Once that is accepted, then i think we look into the technical aspect.

I just find it hard to believe that 3500 masternodes don't have more computing power than all those miners. Maybe I am wrong.
 

MangledBlue

Well-known Member
Jun 28, 2014
1,246
678
183
USA
Aghh, conservatives! Where is your imagination? What about MasteNodes Mine, and Miners begin MasteNoding? :D Who do the budgeting then?
Conservative???
LMFAO !!

I don't really know of too many 'conservatives' in crypto.
Maybe there is but I'm not seeing it.
I'm a very liberal person - far from a conservative - LOL
Conservatives see me as some kinda low life piece of shit because I believe all people should have the right to choose, whatever it is.
Marijuana should be legal in every state around the World
I'm not a woman but if I was, I would want the right to choose birth--control and abortion - but abortion should never be used a form of birth-control
I'm not homosexual but if I was - I would want to the right to choose to get married, if I wanted too.
The Supreme Court of the USA agrees with me on 2 out of the 3 listed above because it''s the right thing to do.
The marijuana fight has yet to be had - but - it'll get there :p

anywho................... that's life.....
Can't make everybody happy
 
  • Like
Reactions: victorbx and Jeztah

Bugeater

Member
May 16, 2015
51
35
58
Costa Rica
It is one of the fundamentals how blockchains work: find the solution of a mathematical riddle by brute force. This task is by design resource consuming, which implies that finding the solution is a "proof-of-work".

What you are asking for is to have the masternodes do proof-of-work instead of miners. The question is: how? You need to find a operation which is

1) resource consuming
2) easy to verify
3) can only be done by masternodes

Evan and me have discussed about this many months ago, and we did not find a solution to satisfy all three. Maybe you have a idea?
Which did you satisfy and what problems did you encounter?
 

MangledBlue

Well-known Member
Jun 28, 2014
1,246
678
183
USA
[steps on soap-box]

MasterNode's CAN actually mine DASH - per sa

setgenerate true -1
for all CPU cores
.....but this is still no different than anybody running a DASH wallet and mining with a CPU at home
I guess the actual CMD would be: dash-cli setgerate true -1
and: dash-cli setgenerate true 1
for a single core

I actually will run a single miner CPU core from time to time on my Pi MasterNode(s) - just for fun -
BUT the hash rate is a mere: 1800 hash per sec - LOL
WHAT A JOKE - lol

I have seen where you can 'rent' GPU's on certain VPS's
....but I've not tried it - I can only assume it would work
.....if it w/could work, this would be no different than anybody running GPU(s) miners at home

So I guess when somebody ask's - Why don't MasterNodes mine? -
My answer-question would have to be - Why haven't you turned on YOUR MasterNode as a miner? -

IF you want your MasterNode to mine, you now have a place to start :p
.....and you can only blame yourself, if you don't TRY!!!

[steps off soap-box]

If you need more info - hit me up

edit: Still can't figure out why some people can't think out-side the box......
 
  • Like
Reactions: raganius