Who should own the mission and vision for the Dash Currency DAO?

Who should own the mission and vision for the Dash Currency DAO?

  • Master Node Owners (MNOs)

    Votes: 3 30.0%
  • Dash Core Team

    Votes: 5 50.0%
  • Logical Mapping of a DAO to Corporation

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Nontraditional Mapping of a DAO to Corporation (1)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Nontraditional Mapping of a DAO to Corporation (2)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Nontraditional Mapping of a DAO to Corporation (3)

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • I don't care, I'm just here to make money

    Votes: 1 10.0%

  • Total voters
    10

joezippy

Member
May 21, 2015
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Trying to answer this question: "Who sets and who executes the mission and vision of the Dash "Currency" DAO? Choices MNOs or Core Team, any and all combinations possible... I ask this, because I don't understand the roles of these 2 groups..." What do you think?

Today - Mapping of a DAO to Corporation.png Logical Mapping of a DAO to Corporation .png Nontraditional Mapping of a DAO to Corporation (1) .png Nontraditional Mapping of a DAO to Corporation (2) .pngNontraditional Mapping of a DAO to Corporation (3) .png


**** Please do not discuss what the vision or mission should be, but only who owns it. Thank you ****
 

TroyDASH

Well-known Member
Jul 31, 2015
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Not sure if there is a clear cut answer to that. It could be more like the core team has a strategic vision, and the Masternodes can either affirm or reject that direction when they vote on core team proposals or governance questions.
 

joezippy

Member
May 21, 2015
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Not sure if there is a clear cut answer to that. It could be more like the core team has a strategic vision, and the Masternodes can either affirm or reject that direction when they vote on core team proposals or governance questions.
Thanks for the input @TroyDASH ... I just changed the poll to better reflect the possible options... So, I hear you saying "Nontraditional Mapping of a DAO to Corporation (3)" (attached again for your reference)? Please vote just so, I can better track the results.

On a side note, I personally feel it's dangerous to "out source" your mission and vision... Because if the Core Team leaves (willing or unwillingly) you have to start over... potentially. Regardless, I'm just looking for input.... Thanks! :)
 

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Biltong

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What do you mean by Dash Currency DAO? Are you talking about Core?
In that case I would like the MNO's to have the finals say
  1. Core creates vision - presents multiple ideas/options of how to realize vision to MNO's/community
  2. MNO's/community discuss - ideas/options get refined and MNO's vote on final solution(s)
  3. Core drives implementation themselves or create a DAO to do it
For sub Dao's there might be even more solutions:
  1. Anyone comes with a vision - presents vision to MNO's/community
  2. MNO's/community discuss - ideas/options get refined and MNO's vote on ideas/options
  3. Core drives implementation themselves or create a DAO to do it or the person creates the DAO her/himself (like Amanda)
 

joezippy

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  • Core creates vision - presents multiple ideas/options of how to realize vision to MNO's/community
  • MNO's/community discuss - ideas/options get refined and MNO's vote on final solution(s)
  • Core drives implementation themselves or create a DAO to do it
I hear you saying... Nontraditional Mapping of a DAO to Corporation (3) (attached again for your reference)... Please vote accordingly... :)
 

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Biltong

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I hear you saying... Nontraditional Mapping of a DAO to Corporation (3) (attached again for your reference)... Please vote accordingly... :)
Nope - In 3 the MNO's impliment - that won't happen. You just have 2 steps. There's a step missing: 1) Core/vision - present/refine 2) MNO vote 3) Core or someone/sub-DAO implements

You need another option at the top: "Everyone' That is DAO! ;)
 

joezippy

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Nope - In 3 the MNO's impliment - that won't happen. You just have 2 steps. There's a step missing: 1) Core/vision - present/refine 2) MNO vote 3) Core or someone/sub-DAO implements
Don't think of them as steps... This isn't a flow, but a functional chart... "Effectively utilize resources" -- This intentionally doesn't say "money", or "man-hours"... It does say, MNOs control the resources, to do whatever they want to accomplish the mission and vision of the organization. If they vote to write one check to the Core Team for the month and not vote again... Or if they do the tasks themselves... Or vote 10k proposals to do the tasks... So be it.

Hope this helps! :)
 

Biltong

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Ok - so in the case of 3: Core comes up with vision and MNO's says go ahead and it gets done by whoever. But since Dash is a DAO anyone can come up with a vision/proposal and if the MNO's like it - it will be. You only have the MNO's or Core at the top, but that is not DAO? So to answer the question " Who should own the mission and vision for the Dash Currency DAO"

I would say: Everyone - it's a DAO

But that is just theory ;) In reality what has happened, what is happening now and what will more than likely keep on happening is 3 :D
Because it is faster and easier.

I just don't like voting for it - because it's not DAO :rolleyes:
Put everyone as a choice and I will vote :p
 
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joezippy

Member
May 21, 2015
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You only have the MNO's or Core at the top, but that is not DAO? Or am I missing something again?
The reason only the MNOs and Core Team are at the top, is because they are the only 2 functional groups who have any say, in what the Dash "Currency" DAO
becomes.... The Core Team started us off with vision, but were not autonomous... The MNOs are autonomous (via voting rights) but lack a clear vision.... Which is
why I'm asking the question... Who should own / publish the mission and vision going forward... As we might have work to do on the MNOs side of the house.

It's my opinion, that we will not have a complete Dash "Currency" DAO until those with voting rights have a clear mission and vision... But I have been wrong before!

Keep the questions and dialog coming! :)
 

joezippy

Member
May 21, 2015
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Put everyone as a choice and I will vote
I would gladly put everyone, but not everyone sets the mission / vision of the Dash "Currency" DAO... Only the MNOs and Core Team can do that... Everyone
can have an impact on the Dash "Currency" DAO, but that's not the question... Sorry, not an option... :rolleyes:
 

Biltong

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You still need to answer: "What do you mean by Dash Currency DAO? Are you talking about Core?"
What is inside the Dash Currency DAO? and what is excluded?
 
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Biltong

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Also when you talk about MNO's do you mean a significant large enough group that their vote will be law?
Obviously there are also large overlaps Core members are MNO's as well.

You discount 'everyone'. By 'everyone' I mean anyone can create or influence the 'vision'. E.g.: Evan in a single speech at openhouse got core going on sub-DOA's. Evan is neither a group of MNO's nor is he Core (anymore) - he is just 'everyone' :)
 

Biltong

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Why do you ask the question in the 1st place?
I'm sure it's not to create rules of how it should be run.
So is it Just for your own understanding?
To create a diagram that will enable noobs joining to have a visual representation of how things are run?
Just curious.
 

solarguy

Active Member
Mar 15, 2017
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There are several answers to your question.

1. First order simplistic answer, the MasterNode community. They invested in it, they own it. They are the only ones that can vote.

2. More nuance, the Masternode Community AND the Dash Core team And the miners. All three groups have invested a lot of time and energy and creativity and money into the Dash brand/community/system/software. We are in a strategic partnership together. It's like a marriage. Could we split up? Sure. Is that a good idea? Probably not.

3. The biggest and most inclusive view: everybody that cares has influence over the vision of Dash. Both the Dash Core team and the Masternode community actively solicit constructive ideas to make the Dash ecosystem better. Anybody can suggest ideas on the forums and anybody can submit proposals to the treasury.

The main reason Dash got started is Evan approached the Bitcoin devs with ideas about how to improve Bitcoin. They basically told him to piss off. So he went and started a new improved cryptocurrency. The whole community (mostly) is geared toward the idea of being the innovators.
 
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joezippy

Member
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You still need to answer: "What do you mean by Dash Currency DAO? Are you talking about Core?"
What is inside the Dash Currency DAO? and what is excluded?
Dash "Currency" DAO includes everything that interacts with the currency DASH... I think it's important that we start differentiated DAOs, as others may live on the same
Dash Blockchain in the future.... It also gives focus to the mission and vision... Thus, future DAOs that focus on Smart Contracts, Charity, etc might not be
included in the Dash "Currency" DAO... As they are not currency. But that's a different thread...

Currency is a system of money.
Money is a current medium of exchange.

Hope this helps.
 

joezippy

Member
May 21, 2015
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Also when you talk about MNO's do you mean a significant large enough group that their vote will be law?
Obviously there are also large overlaps Core members are MNO's as well.

You discount 'everyone'. By 'everyone' I mean anyone can create or influence the 'vision'. E.g.: Evan in a single speech at openhouse got core going on sub-DOA's. Evan is neither a group of MNO's nor is he Core (anymore) - he is just 'everyone' :)
I don't discount everyone, and understand everyone has a voice regarding the mission / vision.... A DAO is not anarchy (a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority) MNOs have the
authority to fund proposals as they wish....

Next.
 

joezippy

Member
May 21, 2015
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Why do you ask the question in the 1st place?
I'm sure it's not to create rules of how it should be run.
So is it Just for your own understanding?
To create a diagram that will enable noobs joining to have a visual representation of how things are run?
Just curious.
You can't have a Dash "Currency" DAO, if you can't define it... We went from not knowing what a DAO is, to calling everything a DAO or
sub-DAO (whatever that is)... If we want to move forward, we have to agree on terminology. Terminology leads to communication, and
you can't have an DA"Organization" without communication.

No conspiracy here to take over the Dash "Currency" DAO, just trying to move forward. hehehehe

You see as a MNO, if I only have 10 Dash, I want to know what to vote for.... If I don't have a vision or mission for what the Dash currency should be... I'll never
reach my goal.

Next.
 

joezippy

Member
May 21, 2015
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There are several answers to your question.

1. First order simplistic answer, the MasterNode community. They invested in it, they own it. They are the only ones that can vote.

2. More nuance, the Masternode Community AND the Dash Core team And the miners. All three groups have invested a lot of time and energy and creativity and money into the Dash brand/community/system/software. We are in a strategic partnership together. It's like a marriage. Could we split up? Sure. Is that a good idea? Probably not.

3. The biggest and most inclusive view: everybody that cares has influence over the vision of Dash. Both the Dash Core team and the Masternode community actively solicit constructive ideas to make the Dash ecosystem better. Anybody can suggest ideas on the forums and anybody can submit proposals to the treasury.

The main reason Dash got started is Evan approached the Bitcoin devs with ideas about how to improve Bitcoin. They basically told him to piss off. So he went and started a new improved cryptocurrency. The whole community (mostly) is geared toward the idea of being the innovators.
Well put and thanks @solarguy for posting... I totally agree... So if I have 2 very good proposals and funding for one, as a MNO, how will I know which to vote for without a clear vision and mission?

Hope you vote on this thread... Cheers!
 

MizzyMax

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Feb 14, 2017
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If anyone votes for the core team I strongly dislike you lol. Dash should be the land of equal opportunity
 

joezippy

Member
May 21, 2015
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Added a new option. in the poll.. "I don't care, I'm just here to make money" ... Maybe that will bring out more votes... :confused:
 

Acedian

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The core team is employed by the masternode owners. If the core team own the mission and vision for the DAO it is still indirectly controlled by the masternode owners, I guess.
Like any other business, we (hopefully) employ the correct people to form a valued mission/vision that we may not be capable of making ourselves.
 

TaoOfSatoshi

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I'm of the mindset that anyone can control their particular vision for the DAO. What is the end goal for DASH? To become the digital currency of choice for the world economy. There are a myriad of different ways we can achieve this goal, and they can all be pursued simultaneously. In other words, Dash is what you want it to be and explain it to others. Some focus on the technicals, some focus on the economics, others focus on its potential to change the world. They are all a vision for Dash, and they can all be fulfilled at the same time. That's why Dash Nation is so exciting to be a part of.
 

MizzyMax

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The core team is employed by the masternode owners. If the core team own the mission and vision for the DAO it is still indirectly controlled by the masternode owners, I guess.
Like any other business, we (hopefully) employ the correct people to form a valued mission/vision that we may not be capable of making ourselves.
But if we become reliant on the core team that's not a good thing because they in the end choose where the currencies next step is
 

stan.distortion

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Oct 30, 2014
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You're over-thinking it, the purpose of a DAO is simply to perform a role in the best way possible. For Dash that role is digital cash and what drives it's strategy is mostly competition. DAOs often seem to be considered as something like decentralised corporations but there's a significant difference, corporations are profit driven while DAOs are non-profit. Maybe that sounds a little crazy but think about it for a mo, what happens if the aim is profit? Improvement and innovation are no longer top priority and if it's more profitable to, say, eliminate competition than compete head-on then that's the path it has to take, it results in building a better predator rather than building the best digital cash possible.
 

Acedian

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But if we become reliant on the core team that's not a good thing because they in the end choose where the currencies next step is
We still have the power to do something about it if they start taking on a route we don't like.
 

joezippy

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May 21, 2015
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We still have the power to do something about it if they start taking on a route we don't like.
Agree... However, what competitive edge might me lost if we don't have a clear mission / vision... If we can't form the mission / vision now, who is to say we can do it in the future...
 

joezippy

Member
May 21, 2015
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You're over-thinking it, the purpose of a DAO is simply to perform a role in the best way possible. For Dash that role is digital cash and what drives it's strategy is mostly competition. DAOs often seem to be considered as something like decentralised corporations but there's a significant difference, corporations are profit driven while DAOs are non-profit. Maybe that sounds a little crazy but think about it for a mo, what happens if the aim is profit? Improvement and innovation are no longer top priority and if it's more profitable to, say, eliminate competition than compete head-on then that's the path it has to take, it results in building a better predator rather than building the best digital cash possible.
I have to disagree here..... Profit really has nothing to do with this, as you'll see both successful non-profits and for-profits, they all have clear missions and vision statements... Here is the problem that I have right now as a MNO...

Hypothetical, but very possible.

2 proposals, equally good for Dash and funding for one..... Both are 800k USD each... Alt36 (retail based Point of Sale system) just passed. One of the 2 new proposals, has to do with some "Wallet UX integration and 3rd world unbanked outreach" and the other has to do with a "Service based Point of Sale system"..... How should I vote with out a vision? Should we concentrate our efforts on Point of Sale systems or diversify our position with the 3rd world unbanked? We can't have it all... We need to focus on something...

Just a couple statements (owned by some group) that states what we are targeting... Is it: 3rd world unbanked, smart contracts, Point of Sale retail, 1st world unbanked (Cannabis industry), etc... Then I'll be able to vote accordingly, in a educated manor... I don't even care what it is we focus on, but as the saying goes... How do you eat and elephant? One bit at a time. Blockchain technology is an elephant.

Finally, a DAO is not anarchy and organizations need guidance.... The only thing new in a DAO, is the word Autonomous... We have had (DOs) forever. Successful ones have a mission and vision statement.

Next.
 

joezippy

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May 21, 2015
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change the world
Yes... I agree... Lets name some tech companies that have changed the world...
  • Google - Started w/ a search engine
  • Apple - Started w/ a desktop computer
  • Amazon - Started w/ e-commerce
  • Tesla - Started w/ a car
Did any of them, set out to change the world... Maybe. Did they all start with a vision. Yes.

index.jpeg

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Kevin Stalker

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Feb 18, 2017
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I see the masternodes like shareholders and the core team like the board of directors. Or at least the managers of the core team are. A company where all the decisions were made by the shareholders would never work, because they cant create a vision or make things happen on the ground.

But a healthy company has to hold its directors to account, with regular votes of confidence. We have to work that way to scale, in my opinion.
 
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