Which Masternode model should we implement?

darkstrike420

Active Member
Jul 1, 2014
178
136
103
So your cunning plan is to move pools and miners too to a network funded by the US govt.?
What this has to do with anything? If you want to continue bashing Torproject then you should get some credibility by showing vulnerabilities you've personally found. If you cannot then please kindly shut the fuck up (I think I asked you to do this before) and have some respect to coders that are way better than you (Torproject).

Having funding just means Tor coders can work on it everyday as they're rich as fuck and don't need any jobs. It doesn't matter from whom the funding is. You keep forgetting that Tor is open-source.

I think ya lil boy ass is jelly bro.

Darkcoin under Tor can be optional. I think Evan is already doing it according to Github.
 
  • Like
Reactions: moli

thelonecrouton

Well-known Member
Foundation Member
Apr 15, 2014
1,135
813
283
What this has to do with anything? If you want to continue bashing Torproject then you should get some credibility by showing vulnerabilities you've personally found. If you cannot then please kindly shut the fuck up (I think I asked you to do this before) and have some respect to coders that are way better than you (Torproject).

Having funding just means Tor coders can work on it everyday as they're rich as fuck and don't need any jobs. It doesn't matter from whom the funding is. You keep forgetting that Tor is open-source.

Darkcoin under Tor can be optional. I think Evan is already doing it according to Github.
Agora and Evolution are on the dark web. Mining pools and miners are not. This is what we were talking about. Try to keep up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Raico

Raico

Well-known Member
Foundation Member
Dash Support Group
May 28, 2014
138
142
193
After reading all 11 pages' discussion, i think i'm still vote for #1. And i want to show my respect that this thread made my day. So many different ideas join together and make many spark here.
IMHO:
- i consider the Darkcoin / Darkcoin network as the future of the crypto-currency.Cypto world is highly technology oriented world, if you stay, you will fail at the end. It's not the replace or something like that. When it happens, it happens.
- Do we really just "Only" have the features like Darksend, InstantX or Masternode in future? If not, these potential services are most likely to build on what? Masternode network?
- A strong, stable and powerful Masternode definitely will become one of our blueprint. And the internet security is just one part of it, maybe that important one. But migrating the whole network to the Tor/I2P is just not OK for me. I think it's just like bypass the problem to solve the problem.
- And i'm very glade we have people like darkstrike420 in the community and i agree with him that it should be take a long time to make final decision.
 

moli

Grizzled Member
Aug 5, 2014
3,255
1,830
1,183
I don't own a botnet. If you want to test how strong Darkcoin is against DDOS, you first should get acceptance of ddos of masternode owners(so its legal to stress test their network) then throw together couple thousand for 1 Gbit/s servers and get DNS amplification code off the internet. Then just input the IP addresses.

FYI: I am not criminal. Why would you assume I run botnets?
I was just kidding. Not sure if Kong was kidding though... :)
 

crowning

Well-known Member
May 29, 2014
1,414
1,997
183
Alpha Centauri Bc
I have one more general though: dependency!

If Darkcoin depends/relies on external software (be it TOR or I2P or something else) it lives and dies with it. If the maintainers stop maintaining it (maybe they don't want or are not allowed to do it any more. TOR's already forbidden in a couple of countries) Darkcoin will have troubles. The more dependencies, the higher the odds that one breaks.

If we _need_ something like onion-routing we should do it within Darkcoin itself.
 

thelonecrouton

Well-known Member
Foundation Member
Apr 15, 2014
1,135
813
283
I have one more general though: dependency!

If Darkcoin depends/relies on external software (be it TOR or I2P or something else) it lives and dies with it. If the maintainers stop maintaining it (maybe they don't want or are not allowed to do it any more. TOR's already forbidden in a couple of countries) Darkcoin will have troubles. The more dependencies, the higher the odds that one breaks.

If we _need_ something like onion-routing we should do it within Darkcoin itself.
Absolutely agree, whatever is decided upon needs to be integrated, without any external dependencies.

Masternode ops all have to use TOR? Not going to happen. Pools and miners all have to use TOR? Not going to happen. Users all have to use TOR? Not going to happen. Merchants and exchanges all have to use TOR? Not going to happen.
 

moli

Grizzled Member
Aug 5, 2014
3,255
1,830
1,183
I have one more general though: dependency!

If Darkcoin depends/relies on external software (be it TOR or I2P or something else) it lives and dies with it. If the maintainers stop maintaining it (maybe they don't want or are not allowed to do it any more. TOR's already forbidden in a couple of countries) Darkcoin will have troubles. The more dependencies, the higher the odds that one breaks.

If we _need_ something like onion-routing we should do it within Darkcoin itself.
What I understand is .. right now it's impossible to put the whole MN network under Tor, so that topic is out of question now. But any network can build their own Tor hidden services, like someone is doing it right now:

https://github.com/darkcoin/darkcoin/commit/040528dc449e58ffadde53767b29538615fbedaa
 

Raico

Well-known Member
Foundation Member
Dash Support Group
May 28, 2014
138
142
193

eduffield

Core Developer
Mar 9, 2014
1,084
5,323
183
I still vote #1

1.) One node per IP.
-Higher cost to run a node
-Network will support more computing power
-Zero anonymity for masternode operators
-Much faster response time for Masternode tasks
-Support tasks on direct connection to masternode (Greater security for DS and other tasks like that).
-Highly resistant to DDOS (thousands of machines)
-Less centralization
-Supports Masternode Blinding
We can go with #1, but allow users/masternode operators to use Tor if they like. In my opinion, it's a bad idea for us to base our technology off of something already highly scrutinized, it will make the system as a whole much more vulnerable.
 

moli

Grizzled Member
Aug 5, 2014
3,255
1,830
1,183
We can go with #1, but allow users/masternode operators to use Tor if they like. In my opinion, it's a bad idea for us to base our technology off of something already highly scrutinized, it will make the system as a whole much more vulnerable.
Thank you for giving Darkcoiners this option! :)
 

oblox

Well-known Member
Aug 6, 2014
1,032
537
183
We can go with #1, but allow users/masternode operators to use Tor if they like. In my opinion, it's a bad idea for us to base our technology off of something already highly scrutinized, it will make the system as a whole much more vulnerable.
Will there be a way of blending clearnet and tor masternodes together or will clearnet only be able to see clearnet, tor see tor nodes, or tor see both? And assuming that there is a difference in who can see what, won't that cause potential issues with masternode payee selection as blocks are mined? We don't want to go down the road of forks again due to conflicted masternode selection.
 

MangledBlue

Well-known Member
Jun 28, 2014
1,246
678
183
USA
@Evan -

AGREED: We can go with #1, but allow users/masternode operators to use Tor if they like.
- - We should not limit ones usage of the system across any "platform".

AGREED: In my opinion, it's a bad idea for us to base our technology off of something already highly scrutinized, it will make the system as a whole much more vulnerable.
- - The system does not need any weak link(s) that DRK couldn't/can't ever truly control.


Thx Sir


MB
 

r-ando

Well-known Member
Foundation Member
Jun 22, 2014
411
250
233
Canada
Great! Happy to hear it will work for those who want to be really private :)
 

crowning

Well-known Member
May 29, 2014
1,414
1,997
183
Alpha Centauri Bc
So this implementation is no good?
Those 3 lines worry me:
eduffield said:
it is possible to make your node also reachable from the Tor network.
...
where you're only reachable via Tor, this should suffice
...
If you only want to use Tor to reach onion addresses, but not use it as a proxy for normal IPv4/IPv6 communication
Fragmentation alert!
 
  • Like
Reactions: r-ando and Raico

oblox

Well-known Member
Aug 6, 2014
1,032
537
183
Its great actually. You choose if you want Tor or not. Maybe an option to force client to use only Tor masternodes? :)
The biggest issue I have is the forking by dividing the network between masternodes on Tor and those that aren't. There has to be a way to unify things, from a standpoint of holistic mixing between the two as well as election for payment.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Raico

Raico

Well-known Member
Foundation Member
Dash Support Group
May 28, 2014
138
142
193
like people mentioned: why not create our own Dark-Tor? Using Tor may fix one problem but will create other problems like: fork? dependency? and User friendly?
But if we create our own Dark-Tor by this chance, not only we fix the problem, but also we create so many opportunities like Dark-Tor service? Darkcoin adoption?
In order to gain the Privacy, Evan, Dev-team, and the whole Darkcoin Community invented the Mansternode and Darksend.
In order to make the Daily use possible, We invented the InstantX.
Now, in order to make the Darkcoin Network stronger, i think it's time to activate the Dark-Tor project.

My 2 duff....
 

darkstrike420

Active Member
Jul 1, 2014
178
136
103
like people mentioned: why not create our own Dark-Tor? Using Tor may fix one problem but will create other problems like: fork? dependency? and User friendly?
But if we create our own Dark-Tor by this chance, not only we fix the problem, but also we create so many opportunities like Dark-Tor service? Darkcoin adoption?
In order to gain the Privacy, Evan, Dev-team, and the whole Darkcoin Community invented the Mansternode and Darksend.
In order to make the Daily use possible, We invented the InstantX.
Now, in order to make the Darkcoin Network stronger, i think it's time to activate the Dark-Tor project.

My 2 duff....
Again sounds good on paper. The idea is really good.

But a Tor alternative is a very big project. Does Evan really have the brain power to manage both Darkcoin and a Tor alternative? I think Darkcoin needs to reqruit more developers.

What I am trying to say is.. We can use the way things are now. Those who want additional privacy can run their Masternode and Wallet through Tor. This implementation will be good enough for 1-2 years easily.

I am not saying I would not be interested in a Tor alternative coded in C++. Hell, I would read every single LOC. I hate Tor for the fact that they code in C(The only reason I haven't contributed anything to Torproject except bandwidth). Its as bad as coding the whole project in x86 assembly(which I would still find more pleasurable to read). Their code is a big mess.

I think Evan should do what he is doing now (The Tor thingy) and then focus all his brain power on things that really matter such as Darksend and Instant X. I don't believe Darksend and Instant X are at their final form just yet.
 

Raico

Well-known Member
Foundation Member
Dash Support Group
May 28, 2014
138
142
193
Again sounds good on paper. The idea is really good.

But a Tor alternative is a very big project. Does Evan really have the brain power to manage both Darkcoin and a Tor alternative? I think Darkcoin needs to reqruit more developers.

What I am trying to say is.. We can use the way things are now. Those who want additional privacy can run their Masternode and Wallet through Tor. This implementation will be good enough for 1-2 years easily.

I am not saying I would not be interested in a Tor alternative coded in C++. Hell, I would read every single LOC. I hate Tor for the fact that they code in C(The only reason I haven't contributed anything to Torproject except bandwidth). Its as bad as coding the whole project in x86 assembly(which I would still find more pleasurable to read). Their code is a big mess.

I think Evan should do what he is doing now (The Tor thingy) and then focus all his brain power on things that really matter such as Darksend and Instant X. I don't believe Darksend and Instant X are at their final form just yet.
Yep, Activate the Dark-Tor project is just some words but it needs HUGE resource behind it to make it real. So that's one reason why i think it's good to have you here. ;)
And i agree with that Darksend and InstantX should be more polished. As for the network security, i prefer Dark-Tor than Tor~
anyway, we don't need to make quick decision. A fully discussion and a comprehensive attempt definitely may help a lot.

Bed time now. Will catch up tomorrow.
 

coingun

Active Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Jul 8, 2014
489
402
133
masternode.io
cmon, while I feel you have some notable knowledge and I'm thankful for your help to make Darkcoin stronger/survive in bad days I would be even more thankful if you could stop talking in such aggressive manner. We are sharing information here with each other, not trying to figure out who is better programmer or smth... You are not making Tor option look better arguing in such way. I would even say otherwise.
Just calm down and lets find the best solution possible weighting every Pros and Cons.
^^^^^ This is why I heart you guys(girls)
 
  • Like
Reactions: r-ando

r-ando

Well-known Member
Foundation Member
Jun 22, 2014
411
250
233
Canada
like people mentioned: why not create our own Dark-Tor? Using Tor may fix one problem but will create other problems like: fork? dependency? and User friendly?
But if we create our own Dark-Tor by this chance, not only we fix the problem, but also we create so many opportunities like Dark-Tor service? Darkcoin adoption?
In order to gain the Privacy, Evan, Dev-team, and the whole Darkcoin Community invented the Mansternode and Darksend.
In order to make the Daily use possible, We invented the InstantX.
Now, in order to make the Darkcoin Network stronger, i think it's time to activate the Dark-Tor project.

My 2 duff....
I wonder if coders who worked on Tor might be approachable and interested in contributing to such an effort. For 1 masternodes are still relatively cheap, so any coders wanting in on the project could also invest on the return from their work on the Darkcoin global project in a very effective cost efficient manner by buying 1 or more masternodes. 2 it would probably be something very interesting for them, maybe they would find it a cool idea?

3.... hopefully not the government spook coders lool... Although I'm sure there are some really cool ones there too :)

Maybe call it Private Internet 2.0 with Darkcoin fully integrated
Eventually just call it Internet 2.0...
operated by the masternodes... we had this talk a few times in the past.. Its just a lot of work for devs and probably not the first thing that needs to be done :) But what a beautiful thing

A possibly unpopular thought is that maybe one day a small percentage of masternode-mining fees could go to a wallet operated by the Darkcoin Foundation and Evan. Then the community as a whole could vote on new bounties regularly over time and pay the rewards with those funds. Measurable objectives and achievements that when done and validated by Evan and the Foundation give right to the bounty. Then we start a bounty for creating Internet 2.0 and we start filling the wallet for the bounty :) Eventually, people might start competing to fulfill objectives

Here is a way it could work.

we create a voting list where people can propose Darkcoin objectives. Members of Darkcoin talk vote on which top 10 objectives they would want to see prioritized each month.

The top 10 on the list get an equal share of the bounty funding attributed equally between them.

When new objectives are voted to the top because they become more important, the ones that get pushed down keep the DRK that was put aside for them assigned to them. When they are promoted back to the top 10, we start increasing their bounty again. Now I think that is a cool system :)

And I think it would be an extra way of thanking and rewarding the Devs for their efforts, attracting other Devs with different specialties who have ideas for other features, get the guys competing to work on Darkcoin :) so one day Darkcoin will have a diversified evolving and sustainable product line of anonymous services and options running through the masternodes.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: Raico

strix

Well-known Member
Foundation Member
Sep 14, 2014
140
121
193
The Shadow Lands
So your cunning plan is to move pools and miners too to a network funded by the US govt.?
"Funded by" and "controlled by" are two different things. The Fed. is clearly funded by the U.S. gov, but who is it that does the controlling? It was in the govs interest to develop a system by which its operatives could "phone home" securely, and have exit ramps that they could monitor. Hidden services are simply the cost they are willing to put up with, that vouch for the validity of the system. Much like the DRK markets existing on those same services are the ultimate proof of DRKs viability and show the weakness of BTC, even though Evan (and I) does not approve of them.

While I generally side with you on issues my crusty breaded friend, I'm afraid I'm with DS420 in thinking that open-source code trumps conspiracy theories--at least in this case.:confused:

Edit: I think that Snowden's advocacy of Tails settles the issue for me at least.
 

strix

Well-known Member
Foundation Member
Sep 14, 2014
140
121
193
The Shadow Lands
I see little point in spending money to prove the resistance of a network against an attack that not yet affected that network even on a small scale.

My issue is with people who spout off attack vectors with a low probability of success or are otherwise properly dis-incentivized and waste everyone's time.
I hesitate to bring this up because I am not sure of its significance, but I suspect that I have already observed either a real attack or testing of the MN network. I hope that someone who understands these things will check out this post and its companion a bit further down the thread:
[ANN] Darkcoin | Darkcoin.io | Creators of x-11, Darksend, DGW, and InstantX.