Pre-Proposal: Solving the 'Free Money' treasury problem

If there is unspent dash at the end of each Treasury cycle, what should be done with it?

  • Nothing, I think the treasury is working great as is.

    Votes: 4 28.6%
  • Give it to masternodes. They should feel all the pain of spending it.

    Votes: 4 28.6%
  • Split it 60-40 between masternodes and miners. It is more fair.

    Votes: 6 42.9%

  • Total voters
    14
  • Poll closed .

stan.distortion

Well-known Member
Oct 30, 2014
911
530
163
Folks, the treasury's 'free money' problem must be addressed. It will also cure MNO voter apathy and increase the effectiveness of the proposal system. Do what you can to raise awareness of this problem. We need a proposal in a timely manner.
I don't know where you're getting that idea from, voter apathy has been a problem since practically the dawn of civilisation and so far there's been no simple and effective cure for it and nothing that's been discussed so far is an effective solution. If you want to solve that problem it's going to take a hell of a lot more than minor tweaks and claiming that's all it will take is a disservice to Dash's genuinely groundbreaking achievements.
 

Geert

Member
Aug 26, 2015
259
82
88
There is no cure for voter apathy except to allow non-voters to opt-out somehow and give them an incentive to do so.

I don't really see voter apathy as a big issue. What we have is the 80/20 rule in action. Only twenty percent of the MNs are voted. Setting the bar at ten percent net upvotes makes complete sense.
 

xkcd

Active Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Feb 19, 2017
253
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103
australia
mnowatch.org
Dash Address
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There is no cure for voter apathy except to allow non-voters to opt-out somehow and give them an incentive to do so.
Jesus! This guy really has his arse screwed on backwards, I bet he shits into his belly! Hey, why not incentivise MNOs to vote! If you think about it, this idea does just that, buy voting they have more control over the rewards they are paid. That is why this plan will increase voter participation. Quite frankly the opposition to this is disturbing and really prises out the socialist nature of MNOs that like a government body very much wish to spend someone else's money but bawk at the idea of investing their own money into network.
 

stan.distortion

Well-known Member
Oct 30, 2014
911
530
163
Jesus! This guy really has his arse screwed on backwards, I bet he shits into his belly! Hey, why not incentivise MNOs to vote! If you think about it, this idea does just that, buy voting they have more control over the rewards they are paid. That is why this plan will increase voter participation. Quite frankly the opposition to this is disturbing and really prises out the socialist nature of MNOs that like a government body very much wish to spend someone else's money but bawk at the idea of investing their own money into network.
Who's this "someone else" you're talking about? I don't know about Geert but that point is the main reason for my opposition, that 10% has never belonged to anyone before. There was no "someone else's money" and my problem is with giving it to MNOs, "vote against spending this and it's yours!". That's just plain wrong. Sure, take it away from MN earnings if the budget goes over 10% but don't give it to MN's if it goes below, that 10% isn't anyone's to give away.

What I also don't like is it's a half-baked solution, it's being praised as a guaranteed cure to a multitude of problems and it isn't, it could possibly be a small step towards improvement but it could also have unintended consiquences that leave us in a worse position than we are now. That alone isn't worth the risk imo but more importantly, that's not the way Dash does things. When Dash fixes problems it nails them, simple, elegant and guaranteed solutions. This isn't one of those solutions.
 

Geert

Member
Aug 26, 2015
259
82
88
@stan.distortion the 10% I am speaking of is not the actual treasury. It is the 10% of net votes needed to pass an individual proposal.

Hey, why not incentivise MNOs to vote!
There is no incentive for MNOs to vote right now? We want to incentivize INFORMED and ENGAGED voters and right now we have that.
 

xkcd

Active Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Feb 19, 2017
253
225
103
australia
mnowatch.org
Dash Address
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Who's this "someone else" you're talking about?
By minting fresh coins we otherwise would not have minted we are inflating the supply and in this context `someone else` is everybody else, mostly people other than you and worse people that had NO say in the matter. If we are to have a DAO it is absolutely crucial that we fund it directly from the proceeds of those people that have a say (vote) in how it is run. I am continually flabbergasted that this notion is not self-evident.
 
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forro

Member
Apr 13, 2019
94
32
68
Dash's 'free money' problem continues to plague the project. Lazy, parasitic recipients of the treasury know they are safe as long as the MNOs remain apathetic. If MNOs were directly incentivized to scrutinize each project and it's results, or lack thereof, the MNOs would give the boot to underperforming projects.
Encourage MNOs to come to the table and vote! Give leftover funds to MNOs at the end of each cycle, and they will come. They will see how a small group of MNOs support a small group of lazy parasites, and they will put a stop to it.
New participants will arrive and give fresh energy to the project.
 

xkcd

Active Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Feb 19, 2017
253
225
103
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mnowatch.org
Dash Address
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I think this change is gaining more support these days, especially on it's own without DCG's money grab of boosting the treasury allotment to 20%.
 

Geert

Member
Aug 26, 2015
259
82
88
I think this change is gaining more support these days, especially on it's own without DCG's money grab of boosting the treasury allotment to 20%.
The ability to push the treasury to 20% had nothing whatsoever to do with DCG. ANY proposal(s) from ANY entity or individual could have pushed the treasury temporarily up to 20%. And this power would still have been in the MNOs hands.

I think this is not a good idea. MNOs will vote no to all proposals, in order to get the leftover funds.
This is nonsense. MNOs are not THAT stupid.
 
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vazaki3

Member
Jul 1, 2019
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apogee.dynu.net
Dash Address
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I think this is not a good idea. MNOs will vote no to all proposals, in order to get the leftover funds.
This is nonsense. MNOs are not THAT stupid.

Why not? If I were a government agent, and wanted to destroy Dash, this is exactly what I would do. Buy enough masternodes, vote no to all the budget proposals, get the money of the budget, and then immediatly sell the masternodes. Do the same in the next budget cycle, until everything is destroyed.

The government agents have unlimited money to spend, remember? The governments did not work to earn their money, they print as much money as they want. The government agents, having unlimited supplies of money, they even managed to turn dogecoin into the 6th coin, in order to discredit and defame the whole crypto community....

Now that the Dash governmental questions became cheaper, Dash community should set some rules/laws that will protect us from the malicious government agents. Our real battle is against the world governments and their agents, who currently enslave 8 billion people by using their money. Lets use Dash money (or any other crypto money) in order to set humanity free.

By the way, you were supposed to leave Dash, but you are still here @Geert ...why?
 
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Geert

Member
Aug 26, 2015
259
82
88
You seem to be arguing that we need to get rid of the DAO's voting power so it cannot be commandeered by "government agents."
 

xkcd

Active Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Feb 19, 2017
253
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103
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Dash Address
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In my experience MNOs are more than happy to spend money to invest into the network, because spending a little can result in big returns. The MNO plan was actually to try and restrict that somewhat, so they would make better decisions, but interestingly, the MNOs have been voting to let someone else make those decisions, eg the Incubator and the DIF. That said, I still think the DAO should be funded from the MNOs paycheck.
 

vazaki3

Member
Jul 1, 2019
276
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apogee.dynu.net
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You seem to be arguing that we need to get rid of the DAO's voting power so it cannot be commandeered by "government agents."
If we reduce the DAO's voting power, and give the decision power to one or to a few persons, this makes the job of the government agents easier. Τhe agents can easily redeem or blackmail the one person or the few persons.

So I am arguing that we need to extend the DAO's voting power and give voting power to more people, and at the same time implement a proof of individuality . Then establish a quality system that will primarily record all the votes, then judge all the past votes of each individual and finnaly rank the individual voters and give more voting power to the wise ones (to the ones who voted in favor of wise proposals).
 
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