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Pre-Proposal: An alternative way to propose proposal in the budget

Discussion in 'Pre + Budget Proposal Discussions' started by demo, Jan 18, 2017.

?

Do you like the alternative way of proposing to the budget system?

  1. yes

    25.0%
  2. no

    75.0%
  3. other

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    Until now what is the procedure in order to propose a proposal in the budget system?

    Just post the proposal and wait for a "yes" or a "no".

    What will be the procedure in the upcoming 12.1 version?


    Post a proposal and wait for a "yes" or a "no" or "abstain".

    Here follows the alternative way to post proposals into the budget system:


    Post a proposal, then wait for a "yes", a "no", a "other", but also below the "other" poll option anyone can add as a poll option his alternative proposal.

    Lets see a case study:
    1. Bob proposes "lets go to the forest". People can vote (yes, no, other)
    2. Then here comes Alice and says, I want another poll option to be added with my alternative proposal ("lets go to the beach"). So now people in Bob's proposal can vote (yes, no, other, alice's proposal to go to the beach)
    3. Then here comes Eve, and says I want another poll option to be added with my alternative proposal ("lets go to the mountain"). So now people in Bob's proposal can vote (yes, no, other, alice's proposal, Eve's proposal)
    4. Then here comes Bob, and says I want another poll option to be added with my alternative proposal ("lets go to the forest and eat mushrooms"). So now people in Bob's proposal can vote (yes, no, other, alice's proposal, Eve's proposal, Bob's alternative proposal)
    5. And so on...
    What do you think?
     
    #1 demo, Jan 18, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
    demo
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  2. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    Regarding the poll on this thread, you can always ask me and I can add your alternative poll option to the poll question, just below the "other" poll option.

    <vote history>Do you like the alternative way of proposing to the budget system? *yes 1 vote(s) 100.0%, no 0 vote(s) 0.0%, other 0 vote(s) 0.0%</vote history>
     
    #2 demo, Jan 18, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2017
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  3. RichardAO

    RichardAO New Member

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    I like the idea of being able to add useful amendments to a good idea.

    There's a downside though. Theres a chance that a "poison pill" gets added that becomes popular and effectively steals votes from the main idea, while not adding anything substantive. In your example, the option to go to the forest and eat mushrooms, does this.
     
  4. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member

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    The catch here is that if Eve's proposal is an amendment of sorts to Bob's proposal, Bob may not approve of the alternative proposal and he cannot be expected to follow through on it if it is voted in without his endorsement.

    I actually like the idea of amendments/negotiation but it has to be with the consent of the person who is actually delivering the good or service, and there might be other ways to achieve this without building it directly into the protocol.
     
  5. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    Bob may add as alternative proposal this one: "Lets go to the forest, and I have free tickets to the bus". So the alternative proposal that Bob add to his own proposal, may be an identical proposal with a different cost.

    This is usefull , because if the proposal of Bob is expensive and nobody votes for it, he can reduce the price until he receives enough votes. Of course, when calculating the results , the votes of the identical proposal with a different cost should be added to the plain "yes" votes, as long as those who voted yes for the bigger price they obviously agree with the lower price too.

    <poll history> <-- why vote history is usefull?
    Do you like the alternative way of proposing to the budget system? yes 2 vote(s) 66.7%, no 1 vote(s) 33.3%, other 0 vote(s) 0.0%
    </poll history>
     
    #5 demo, Jan 22, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2017
  6. GrandMasterDash

    GrandMasterDash Well-known Member
    Masternode Owner/Operator

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    As pointed out, the person making the proposal may not agree with other options.

    But it also seems to me there are different types of proposals. The most common type of proposal we see is grant requests, but what about strategic goals and priorities? How about contract conditions and bounties. How do we say, for example, that X, Y and Z must be completed in sequence with, say, a 75% voter approval at each stage? How do we set rewards / penalties for early / late completion?

    What if MNOs could submit tenders for work and there's a negotiations process for competing contractors? With that in mind, the entire core functionality should be farmed out; make them compete.

    With all that in mind, I think there also needs to be independent auditors / arbitrators e.g. code review, testing etc.
     
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  7. Anonymous Dude

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    Yes / No / Lower Costs / Re-write / Not yet / Undecided
     
  8. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    Not all possible answers to the poll question can be expressed by the set of "Yes / No / Lower Costs / Re-write / Not yet / Undecided" poll options. This set is very limited.

    For example what "lower cost" means?
    You should define how much the lower cost is!
     
  9. Anonymous Dude

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    Voting can't be too complicated either because then it turns into a discussion and not an actual vote. So the options have to be limited but not too limited.
     
  10. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    No, voting does not turn into a discussion, because you could use filters in the poll and view only the poll options that are popular enough.
     
    #10 demo, Mar 24, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2017
  11. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    No way! Have a look at this poll ....
    https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/poll-best-celeb-to-promote-dash.13689/#post-118753
    ...and explain to me how your proposed limited poll options set could cater to it . There is no way to cater, not to mention also the case of the numerical votes or the ranking votes that are both tottaly absent from your limited poll option set. And this is only one example, I could give you more ....

    Have a look at my original proposal example: "Lets go to the forest and it will cost 5 dash"
    If the allowed answers were only "Yes / No / Lower Costs / Re-write / Not yet / Undecided" how the alternative locations could be visible in order to be compared to the original proposed excursion location? How the alternative cost could be expressed and be compared to the original cost? Is the "Lower Costs" poll option enough to express all alternative lower costs? I mean, a lower cost can be 4.99999 dash, and another lower cost can be 0.001 dash. Can you put those two costs into the same bucket? The first one is almost 5 dash, and the second one is almost free. And what about the proposal " Let's go to the forest, it will be free of charge, we will find some mushrooms, we will sell them and earn some revenue". Is it the "Re-write" poll option enough in order to present and make visible to the voters all the location alternatives, all the cost alternatives and all the proposed variations of the excursion? It is not! People should be able to see what exactly some others proposed, like the "Lets go to the sea", the "Lets go to the mountain" or anything like this, and vote for it. The reality often requires a much more complicated set of answers rather than a naive predefined set of answers.
     
    #11 demo, Mar 24, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2017
  12. Anonymous Dude

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    Well, open a proposal to change the voting options.

    I would propose such thing but it costs 5 Dash.

    I would start by making a proposal to make proposals not cost 5 Dash. But I would rather keep my Dash and let others make proposals.

    Lol
     
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  13. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    #13 demo, Apr 23, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2017
  14. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    <vote history>
    Do you like the alternative way of proposing to the budget system?
    *yes 2 vote(s) 33.3%
    no 4 vote(s) 66.7%
    other 0 vote(s) 0.0%
    </vote history>
     
  15. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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