Welcome to the Dash Forum!

Please sign up to discuss the most innovative cryptocurrency!

Poll: MN Operators, please respond

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by GrandMasterDash, Apr 18, 2016.

?

Should we compel the core team to implement an anonymizing layer (i2p, tor etc)

  1. Yes, all MNs anonymized

    44.4%
  2. Yes, but MNOs choose IP based or anonymous

    27.8%
  3. No, all MNs should run on public IPs

    27.8%
  1. demo

    demo Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,114
    Likes Received:
    263
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
    Should we compel the core team to implement an anonymizing layer (i2p, tor etc)
    1. *Yes, all MNs anonymized
      16 vote(s) 37.2%
    2. Yes, but MNOs choose IP based or anonymous
      15 vote(s) 34.9%
    3. No, all MNs should run on public IPs
      12 vote(s) 27.9%

    I think anonymity wins. The core team is compeled to implement an anonymizing layer. And as long as the only proposition available is mine, please either point to logical errors on my proposition, or you should implement it.

    Otherwise if the core team refuses to implement an anonymizing layer solution, a new version of code should be written. A code that respects both the will of the people that demand anonymization, and the existing dash protocol of course if we want the dash community to remain united.
     
  2. UdjinM6

    UdjinM6 Official Dash Dev
    Dash Core Team Moderator

    Joined:
    May 20, 2014
    Messages:
    3,637
    Likes Received:
    3,536
    Trophy Points:
    1,183
    Let's take that car analogy again. Imagine you ask some random people on the street smth like "Should we compel car manufacturer X to implement a <insert some cool fancy feature here> no one ever built before?" and ~16 people will told you "Yes, all cars of car manufacturer X must have this feature", 15 people said "Yes, but this should be optional" and 12 people told you that they are fine with cars of this manufacturer already. Few things to note: 1) car manufacturer has no idea how to implement this, could this ever be compatible with road infrastructure and is this possible at all 2) you don't know if any of these people has a car of this manufacturer 3) do they have a car of another manufacturer 4) will they buy a car only when this feature will be implemented or they simply don't need/can't afford a car right now at all. But who cares? You write an article in a city newspaper with the title "Car manufacturer X is compelled to implement a <insert some cool fancy feature here>". :rolleyes: I think voting about MNs via poll on the forum is pretty much the same as asking people on the street vs asking board of directors of car manufacturer X directly - it's 43 (non-collateral) votes vs 3740 (confirmed collateral) MNs out there.

    To make it clear - I run a masternode myself and I'd like to have such feature so there is no need to compel me in any way. ;) I just don't see this working. But that's ok, I might be wrong... So, yeah, "a new version of code should be written" - just find someone who is capable to do this job, do some R&D, deliver and create a proposal to reimburse your costs (or try to fund R&D via proposal if you can assure MN owners that you'll get some results in the end). Hopefully you'll make some money out of it and we'll get a nice feature - win-win. :)
     
    • Like Like x 8
  3. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Messages:
    1,251
    Likes Received:
    794
    Trophy Points:
    183
    This is why governance...
    We can't just have people assert that now the core team is mandated to pursue a certain affirnative course of action. The Masternodes should come to a consensus on what constitutes this
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. demo

    demo Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,114
    Likes Received:
    263
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
    Dont get me wrong. I understand that this is just a forum poll. I am talking assuming that you will repeat the same poll in the masternodes area.

    In my proposition v0.1 you discovered a logical error.
    Now, in my revised proposition v0.2 what is the error?
    Dont tell me it is difficult to implement. just point to the error if there is one.

    UdjinM6, If you cannot find a logical error, then you owe 0.00100000 dash.
    Send them here:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX

    I would like my first duffs into my wallet to be send by you.
     
    #64 demo, Apr 25, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
  5. David

    David Well-known Member
    Dash Support Group

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2014
    Messages:
    618
    Likes Received:
    628
    Trophy Points:
    163
    Evan already said that it can't be done. If you can figure out a way, by all means please implement it. You can't compel the impossible. Even with a gun to my head, there's no way that I can walk through a wall.
     
  6. UdjinM6

    UdjinM6 Official Dash Dev
    Dash Core Team Moderator

    Joined:
    May 20, 2014
    Messages:
    3,637
    Likes Received:
    3,536
    Trophy Points:
    1,183
    Realy? I can't remember we made any kind of deal and you keep posting this nonsense. Is that a new way of trolling or smth? :what:
    I have nothing more to say here, just go and prove me wrong. I'll be happy to be wrong on this one, so good luck with your development/proposal.

    PS. You can easily try to convince masternode owners to defund core team for not trying to implement any feature you like, just ask them to vote:
    dash-cli mnbudget vote-many eac6392cd0d63e4b2ebd3c60da2d3e13137c892cd4cd1a8f3885077ac86b7487 no
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. demo

    demo Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,114
    Likes Received:
    263
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
    yes it is :tongue:

    ok then.
    Just currious, is it possible for a MasterNode that already voted yes to fund you, to repeal to a no vote? Or, have you stolen MasterNodes's votes until 29-12-2023? Anyway, just trolling again. I really dont want to take your own funds, so my alternative is to ask for someone to fund me.

    So if there is someone who want me to continue investigate the subject, I need one person to send me 0.00100000 dash. Send it here:

    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX

    I dont want more than that, I just want only 0.001 dash and nothing more. 0.001 dash from all of you, and from anyone of you. If there is not a single person that believes that my proposition v0.2 for anonymity is feasilbe, it is then pointless for me to continue.
     
    #67 demo, Apr 25, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2016
  8. tungfa

    tungfa Administrator
    Dash Core Team Foundation Member Masternode Owner/Operator Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2014
    Messages:
    8,961
    Likes Received:
    6,735
    Trophy Points:
    1,283

    you are using some big words there for a newcomer, 3 day old account !
    u will not make friends like that !

    i would suggest you revise your approach and attack mode otherwise you will get in trouble with the mods here !
    ;)
     
  9. demo

    demo Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,114
    Likes Received:
    263
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
    I am not here to make friends among the moderators.
    I am here to correct your initial errors, the errors done by the foundation team.

    When I am asking a question, I expect you to answer it, otherwise the worst case is considered.
    So I repeat the question:
    is it possible for a MasterNode that already voted yes to fund you, to repeal to a no vote? Or, have you stolen MasterNodes's votes until 29-12-2023?
     
  10. splawik21

    splawik21 Grizzled Member
    Dash Core Team Foundation Member Dash Support Group Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2014
    Messages:
    1,916
    Likes Received:
    1,273
    Trophy Points:
    1,283
    demo MNs votes can be changed any time...
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. tungfa

    tungfa Administrator
    Dash Core Team Foundation Member Masternode Owner/Operator Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2014
    Messages:
    8,961
    Likes Received:
    6,735
    Trophy Points:
    1,283
    splawik said it !
    anything can be voted down

    Foundation Team and Dev Team are different things , you should at least get your facts in order before aiming for a 'revolution'

    you "expect" me to answer
    come on now , otherwise 'worth case considered'
    good luck with that
    reminds me a little of a guy who expects his girl to make breakfast ... :rolleyes:
     
    #71 tungfa, Apr 26, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2016
    • Like Like x 1
  12. demo

    demo Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,114
    Likes Received:
    263
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
    I admit it, as long as votes can be changed any time, this is well designed and it is not an error of the foundation and dev team.

    Ok...this is great what splawik said.
    But I am not finished yet, I will try to find some other errors, in order to revolt.
    (apart from the MN anonymity error of course, which is already a revolution reason as long as it is not resolved! :cool:)

    Dont you expect your girlfriend to make breakfast? You poor fellow...Of course she has to make it!:tongue:
     
    #72 demo, Apr 26, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2016
  13. tungfa

    tungfa Administrator
    Dash Core Team Foundation Member Masternode Owner/Operator Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2014
    Messages:
    8,961
    Likes Received:
    6,735
    Trophy Points:
    1,283
    That is not the point
    the point is her answer of 2 words ! :eek:
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  14. demo

    demo Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,114
    Likes Received:
    263
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
    Is it possible to put up for auction the implementation of anonymity in Masternodes?

    Something like this: To whom that could implement anonymity, I offer 4 dash.

    a command like this:

    dash-cli mnbudget vote-many ertirewiuth dsjgbsdfjgjkhk offer 4 dash

    or alternatively

    dash-cli mnbudget vote-many ertirewiuth dsjgbsdfjgjkhk offer 4% of the total budget

    Is this possible somehow?
     
    #74 demo, Apr 27, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 27, 2016
  15. demo

    demo Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,114
    Likes Received:
    263
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
    Should we compel the core team to implement an anonymizing layer (i2p, tor etc)
    1. *Yes, all MNs anonymized
      20 vote(s) 40.0%
    2. Yes, but MNOs choose IP based or anonymous
      15 vote(s) 30.0%
    3. No, all MNs should run on public IPs
      15 vote(s) 30.0%
    What about this?
    I asked 0.001 dash to develop my proposition v0.2 for anonymity, which nobody said it is not feasilbe.
    But nobody gave me the 0.001 dash I asked.
    Seems to me that nobody really wants to be anonymous here.
     
    #75 demo, May 12, 2016
    Last edited: May 12, 2016
  16. yidakee

    yidakee Well-known Member
    Foundation Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2014
    Messages:
    1,812
    Likes Received:
    1,168
    Trophy Points:
    283
    @demo

    You are a ding-dong, to say the least. Exposing voters like that. It is the most unethical thing in the planet.

    Instead of "compelling" people to work for you, why don't you make yourself useful and learn code, or hire someone, or ask for a quote from a developer and propose the feature by submitting a proposal to the budgeting system?

    Our developers are not the community's employees. They're their own employees and do as they will. The participate by cooperating as they see fit. As you or anyone can be. The only thing you need to do is write code.

    .
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. TheDashGuy

    TheDashGuy Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2015
    Messages:
    1,232
    Likes Received:
    1,011
    Trophy Points:
    183
    3c36c7f.jpg

    edit; @yidakee stop feeding the troll bro.
     
  18. demo

    demo Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,114
    Likes Received:
    263
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
    sorry, is it me who exposes voters? Voters are already exposed by the admins, everyone can see them.
    I am not exposing anyone that is not already exposed.

    I am just keeping the historical record of this vote, for reasons that you will understand later.
     
  19. yidakee

    yidakee Well-known Member
    Foundation Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2014
    Messages:
    1,812
    Likes Received:
    1,168
    Trophy Points:
    283
    Please forgive me. I give everyone a long chance, but I now see I was once again wrong. No more cookies for him ;)

    .
     
    #79 yidakee, May 12, 2016
    Last edited: May 13, 2016
  20. demo

    demo Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,114
    Likes Received:
    263
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX

    No more cookies...:( Tea maybe?:rolleyes:
     
    #80 demo, May 12, 2016
    Last edited: May 13, 2016
  21. moocowmoo

    moocowmoo Bovine Bit-flipper
    Foundation Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    483
    Likes Received:
    603
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Dash Address:
    XmoocowYfrPKUR6p6M5aJZdVntQe71irCX
    Slow down folks.

    The poll was created as a public poll. Read the fine print under the poll.

    "Your vote will be publicly visible."

    (go incognito if you've already voted to see it.)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  22. xdashguy

    xdashguy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2016
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    50
    Trophy Points:
    58
    I think all masternodes should be anonymized if possible. There is a big issue with normal wallets that are not connected to the anonymization network. In that case, I recommendthe default implementation of Dash wallet should use anonymization network. There are ways to make this really user-friendly. As an example, have a look at http://www.bitsquare.io/. No need to install tor or anything. It just connects you similiar to the tor browser bundle. Very user friendly. (seriously, Dash should hire them to design a wallet for Dash. They make good software).

    2) Not all wallets will use anonymity of course. So, there should be public bridges. My belief is that some masternode owners will run their masternode in the anonymity network and also run the public bridge? Why? As we have already seen from the poll results, a certain % of people do not care about anonymity / privacy. Regardless that it strengthens the network from attacks, etc, they don't care. So, those people would be great candidates for running a bridge on the same server they use for the master node (of course reducing their individual anonymity, but they don't care about that anyway). Also, different jurisdictions have different risk factors. When the US declare masternode owners as conspiracists in money laundering and India declare masternodes as nuetral common carriers, well I imagine US owners will want to be anonymous and indian ones won't care as much.

    3) I believe masternodes are compensated now with some "uptime" measure which I assume is just pinging their IP address essentially. Naturally, that won't work for anonymity, so the alternative would be pinging their tor hidden service url or whatever

    In my view, there is a problem with anonymization and that is latency, reliability, resource constraints of anonymous networks like Tor (and I assume I2P). That is the only real roadblock that I can see. As far as broadcasting transactions it should be more than sufficient. But, if Dash plans to implement global storage among nodes, then it really depends how much will be written / read from this storage. Will it be 100kb/sec, 1mb/sec, 10 mb/sec, or 100mb/sec. My guess is that an anonymouse network could handle the use case of <= 5mb/sec, but would probably not work reliably for 100mb/sec. That is a lot of data though. I am not sure I could see Dash needing to utilizing that much bandwidth per node.
     
  23. demo

    demo Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,114
    Likes Received:
    263
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
    After the DDOS, this poll becomes very important.
    And of course there is only one solution proposed until now that may solve the problem, and this is mine.

    <vote history>
    Should we compel the core team to implement an anonymizing layer (i2p, tor etc)
    *Yes, all MNs anonymized 24 vote(s) 42.1%
    Yes, but MNOs choose IP based or anonymous 16 vote(s) 28.1%

    No, all MNs should run on public IPs 17 vote(s) 29.8%
    </vote history>
     
    #83 demo, Mar 10, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2017
    • Like Like x 1
  24. demo

    demo Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,114
    Likes Received:
    263
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
    [​IMG]

    although this poll does not allow people to change their mind, it is interesting to keep the vote history until a new more relevant poll appears.

    <vote history> <-- why vote history is usefull?
    Should we compel the core team to implement an anonymizing layer (i2p, tor etc)
    *Yes, all MNs anonymized 26 vote(s) 44.1%
    Yes, but MNOs choose IP based or anonymous 16 vote(s) 27.1%
    No, all MNs should run on public IPs 17 vote(s) 28.8%
    </vote history>
     
    #84 demo, Jun 27, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
    • Trolling Trolling x 1
  25. demo

    demo Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,114
    Likes Received:
    263
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
  26. GrandMasterDash

    GrandMasterDash Well-known Member
    Masternode Owner/Operator

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2015
    Messages:
    2,682
    Likes Received:
    959
    Trophy Points:
    183
    See point 5 of the roadmap, "ADAPI (private Tor-routed DAPI implementation for PrivateSend)"
    https://github.com/dashpay/dash-roadmap/blob/master/README.md

    Looks like there's going to be a major upgrade to PrivateSend.

    The big thing missing from all of this is no upgrade to InstantSend i.e. they should make all transactions instant, not an option.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  27. demo

    demo Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,114
    Likes Received:
    263
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
    <vote history>
    Should we compel the core team to implement an anonymizing layer (i2p, tor etc)
    *Yes, all MNs anonymized 27 vote(s) 42.2%
    Yes, but MNOs choose IP based or anonymous 19 vote(s) 29.7%
    No, all MNs should run on public IPs 18 vote(s) 28.1%
    </vote history>
     
  28. demo

    demo Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,114
    Likes Received:
    263
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
  29. demo

    demo Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,114
    Likes Received:
    263
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
  30. demo

    demo Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2016
    Messages:
    3,114
    Likes Received:
    263
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Dash Address:
    XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
    <vote history>
    Should we compel the core team to implement an anonymizing layer (i2p, tor etc)
    *Yes, all MNs anonymized 29 vote(s) 43.3%
    Yes, but MNOs choose IP based or anonymous 20 vote(s) 29.9%
    No, all MNs should run on public IPs 18 vote(s) 26.9%
    </vote history>