Poll: MN Operators, please respond

Should we compel the core team to implement an anonymizing layer (i2p, tor etc)


  • Total voters
    72

demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
3,113
263
153
Dash Address
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Should we compel the core team to implement an anonymizing layer (i2p, tor etc)
  1. *Yes, all MNs anonymized
    16 vote(s) 37.2%
  2. Yes, but MNOs choose IP based or anonymous
    15 vote(s) 34.9%
  3. No, all MNs should run on public IPs
    12 vote(s) 27.9%

I think anonymity wins. The core team is compeled to implement an anonymizing layer. And as long as the only proposition available is mine, please either point to logical errors on my proposition, or you should implement it.

Otherwise if the core team refuses to implement an anonymizing layer solution, a new version of code should be written. A code that respects both the will of the people that demand anonymization, and the existing dash protocol of course if we want the dash community to remain united.
 

UdjinM6

Official Dash Dev
Core Developer
Dash Core Team
May 20, 2014
3,639
3,537
1,183
Should we compel the core team to implement an anonymizing layer (i2p, tor etc)
  1. *Yes, all MNs anonymized
    16 vote(s) 37.2%
  2. Yes, but MNOs choose IP based or anonymous
    15 vote(s) 34.9%
  3. No, all MNs should run on public IPs
    12 vote(s) 27.9%

I think anonymity wins. The core team is compeled to implement an anonymizing layer. And as long as the only proposition available is mine, please either point to logical errors on my proposition, or you should implement it.

Otherwise if the core team refuses to implement an anonymizing layer solution, a new version of code should be written. A code that respects both the will of the people that demand anonymization, and the existing dash protocol of course if we want the dash community to remain united.
Let's take that car analogy again. Imagine you ask some random people on the street smth like "Should we compel car manufacturer X to implement a <insert some cool fancy feature here> no one ever built before?" and ~16 people will told you "Yes, all cars of car manufacturer X must have this feature", 15 people said "Yes, but this should be optional" and 12 people told you that they are fine with cars of this manufacturer already. Few things to note: 1) car manufacturer has no idea how to implement this, could this ever be compatible with road infrastructure and is this possible at all 2) you don't know if any of these people has a car of this manufacturer 3) do they have a car of another manufacturer 4) will they buy a car only when this feature will be implemented or they simply don't need/can't afford a car right now at all. But who cares? You write an article in a city newspaper with the title "Car manufacturer X is compelled to implement a <insert some cool fancy feature here>". :rolleyes: I think voting about MNs via poll on the forum is pretty much the same as asking people on the street vs asking board of directors of car manufacturer X directly - it's 43 (non-collateral) votes vs 3740 (confirmed collateral) MNs out there.

To make it clear - I run a masternode myself and I'd like to have such feature so there is no need to compel me in any way. ;) I just don't see this working. But that's ok, I might be wrong... So, yeah, "a new version of code should be written" - just find someone who is capable to do this job, do some R&D, deliver and create a proposal to reimburse your costs (or try to fund R&D via proposal if you can assure MN owners that you'll get some results in the end). Hopefully you'll make some money out of it and we'll get a nice feature - win-win. :)
 

TroyDASH

Well-known Member
Jul 31, 2015
1,254
797
183
This is why governance...
We can't just have people assert that now the core team is mandated to pursue a certain affirnative course of action. The Masternodes should come to a consensus on what constitutes this
 

demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
3,113
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153
Dash Address
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Dont get me wrong. I understand that this is just a forum poll. I am talking assuming that you will repeat the same poll in the masternodes area.

To make it clear - I run a masternode myself and I'd like to have such feature so there is no need to compel me in any way. ;) I just don't see this working. But that's ok, I might be wrong...
In my proposition v0.1 you discovered a logical error.
Now, in my revised proposition v0.2 what is the error?
Dont tell me it is difficult to implement. just point to the error if there is one.

UdjinM6, If you cannot find a logical error, then you owe 0.00100000 dash.
Send them here:
XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX

I would like my first duffs into my wallet to be send by you.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

David

Well-known Member
Jun 21, 2014
618
628
163
Should we compel the core team to implement an anonymizing layer (i2p, tor etc)
  1. *Yes, all MNs anonymized
    16 vote(s) 37.2%
  2. Yes, but MNOs choose IP based or anonymous
    15 vote(s) 34.9%
  3. No, all MNs should run on public IPs
    12 vote(s) 27.9%

I think anonymity wins. The core team is compeled to implement an anonymizing layer. And as long as the only proposition available is mine, please either point to logical errors on my proposition, or you should implement it.

Otherwise if the core team refuses to implement an anonymizing layer solution, a new version of code should be written. A code that respects both the will of the people that demand anonymization, and the existing dash protocol of course if we want the dash community to remain united.
Evan already said that it can't be done. If you can figure out a way, by all means please implement it. You can't compel the impossible. Even with a gun to my head, there's no way that I can walk through a wall.
 

UdjinM6

Official Dash Dev
Core Developer
Dash Core Team
May 20, 2014
3,639
3,537
1,183
...
UdjinM6, If you cannot find a logical error, then you owe 0.00100000 dash.
Send them here:
XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
...
Realy? I can't remember we made any kind of deal and you keep posting this nonsense. Is that a new way of trolling or smth? :what:
I have nothing more to say here, just go and prove me wrong. I'll be happy to be wrong on this one, so good luck with your development/proposal.

PS. You can easily try to convince masternode owners to defund core team for not trying to implement any feature you like, just ask them to vote:
dash-cli mnbudget vote-many eac6392cd0d63e4b2ebd3c60da2d3e13137c892cd4cd1a8f3885077ac86b7487 no
 

demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
3,113
263
153
Dash Address
XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
Realy? I can't remember we made any kind of deal and you keep posting this nonsense. Is that a new way of trolling or smth? :what:
yes it is :tongue:

You can easily try to convince masternode owners to defund core team for not trying to implement any feature you like, just ask them to vote:
dash-cli mnbudget vote-many eac6392cd0d63e4b2ebd3c60da2d3e13137c892cd4cd1a8f3885077ac86b7487 no
ok then.
Just currious, is it possible for a MasterNode that already voted yes to fund you, to repeal to a no vote? Or, have you stolen MasterNodes's votes until 29-12-2023? Anyway, just trolling again. I really dont want to take your own funds, so my alternative is to ask for someone to fund me.

So if there is someone who want me to continue investigate the subject, I need one person to send me 0.00100000 dash. Send it here:

XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX

I dont want more than that, I just want only 0.001 dash and nothing more. 0.001 dash from all of you, and from anyone of you. If there is not a single person that believes that my proposition v0.2 for anonymity is feasilbe, it is then pointless for me to continue.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

tungfa

Grizzled Member
Foundation Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Apr 9, 2014
8,902
6,739
1,283
yes it is :tongue:



ok then.
Just currious, is it possible for a MasterNode that already voted yes to fund you, to repeal to a no vote? Or, have you stolen MasterNodes's votes until 29-12-2023? Anyway, just trolling again. I really dont want to take your own funds, so my alternative is to ask for someone to fund me.

So if there is someone who want me to continue investigate the subject, I need one person to send me 0.00100000 dash. Send it here:

XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX

I dont want more than that, I just want only 0.001 dash and nothing more. 0.001 dash from all of you, and from anyone of you. If there is not a single person that believes that my proposition v0.2 for anonymity is feasilbe, it is then pointless for me to continue.

you are using some big words there for a newcomer, 3 day old account !
u will not make friends like that !

i would suggest you revise your approach and attack mode otherwise you will get in trouble with the mods here !
;)
 

demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
3,113
263
153
Dash Address
XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
you are using some big words there for a newcomer, 3 day old account !
u will not make friends like that !

i would suggest you revise your approach and attack mode otherwise you will get in trouble with the mods here !
;)
I am not here to make friends among the moderators.
I am here to correct your initial errors, the errors done by the foundation team.

When I am asking a question, I expect you to answer it, otherwise the worst case is considered.
So I repeat the question:
is it possible for a MasterNode that already voted yes to fund you, to repeal to a no vote? Or, have you stolen MasterNodes's votes until 29-12-2023?
 

tungfa

Grizzled Member
Foundation Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Apr 9, 2014
8,902
6,739
1,283
I am not here to make friends among the moderators.
I am here to correct your initial errors, the errors done by the foundation team.

When I am asking a question, I expect you to answer it, otherwise the worst case is considered.
So I repeat the question:
is it possible for a MasterNode that already voted yes to fund you, to repeal to a no vote? Or, have you stolen MasterNodes's votes until 29-12-2023?
splawik said it !
anything can be voted down

Foundation Team and Dev Team are different things , you should at least get your facts in order before aiming for a 'revolution'

you "expect" me to answer
come on now , otherwise 'worth case considered'
good luck with that
reminds me a little of a guy who expects his girl to make breakfast ... :rolleyes:
 
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demo

Well-known Member
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demo MNs votes can be changed any time...
I admit it, as long as votes can be changed any time, this is well designed and it is not an error of the foundation and dev team.

splawik said it !
Foundation Team and Dev Team are different things , you should at least get your facts in order before aiming for a 'revolution'
you "expect" me to answer come on now , otherwise 'worth case considered' good luck with that
reminds me a little of a guy who expects his girl to make breakfast ... :rolleyes:
Ok...this is great what splawik said.
But I am not finished yet, I will try to find some other errors, in order to revolt.
(apart from the MN anonymity error of course, which is already a revolution reason as long as it is not resolved! :cool:)

Dont you expect your girlfriend to make breakfast? You poor fellow...Of course she has to make it!:tongue:
 
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tungfa

Grizzled Member
Foundation Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Apr 9, 2014
8,902
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Dont you expect your girlfriend to make breakfast? You poor fellow...Of course she has to make it!:tongue:
That is not the point
the point is her answer of 2 words ! :eek:
 
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demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
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XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
Is it possible to put up for auction the implementation of anonymity in Masternodes?

Something like this: To whom that could implement anonymity, I offer 4 dash.

a command like this:

dash-cli mnbudget vote-many ertirewiuth dsjgbsdfjgjkhk offer 4 dash

or alternatively

dash-cli mnbudget vote-many ertirewiuth dsjgbsdfjgjkhk offer 4% of the total budget

Is this possible somehow?
 
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demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
3,113
263
153
Dash Address
XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
Should we compel the core team to implement an anonymizing layer (i2p, tor etc)
  1. *Yes, all MNs anonymized
    20 vote(s) 40.0%
  2. Yes, but MNOs choose IP based or anonymous
    15 vote(s) 30.0%
  3. No, all MNs should run on public IPs
    15 vote(s) 30.0%
What about this?
I asked 0.001 dash to develop my proposition v0.2 for anonymity, which nobody said it is not feasilbe.
But nobody gave me the 0.001 dash I asked.
Seems to me that nobody really wants to be anonymous here.
 
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yidakee

Well-known Member
Foundation Member
Apr 16, 2014
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@demo

You are a ding-dong, to say the least. Exposing voters like that. It is the most unethical thing in the planet.

Instead of "compelling" people to work for you, why don't you make yourself useful and learn code, or hire someone, or ask for a quote from a developer and propose the feature by submitting a proposal to the budgeting system?

Our developers are not the community's employees. They're their own employees and do as they will. The participate by cooperating as they see fit. As you or anyone can be. The only thing you need to do is write code.

.
 

TheDashGuy

Well-known Member
Dec 16, 2015
1,228
1,010
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@demo

You are a ding-dong, to say the least. Exposing voters like that. It is the most unethical thing in the planet.

Instead of "compelling" people to work for you, why don't you make yourself useful and learn code, or hire someone, or ask for a quote from a developer and propose the feature by submitting a proposal to the budgeting system?

Our developers are not the community's employees. They're their own employees and do as they will. The participate by cooperating as they see fit. As you or anyone can be. The only thing you need to do is write code.

.
3c36c7f.jpg

edit; @yidakee stop feeding the troll bro.
 

demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
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@demo

You are a ding-dong, to say the least. Exposing voters like that. It is the most unethical thing in the planet.

.
sorry, is it me who exposes voters? Voters are already exposed by the admins, everyone can see them.
I am not exposing anyone that is not already exposed.

I am just keeping the historical record of this vote, for reasons that you will understand later.
 

moocowmoo

Bovine Bit-flipper
Foundation Member
Jun 15, 2014
483
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masternode.me
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Slow down folks.

The poll was created as a public poll. Read the fine print under the poll.

"Your vote will be publicly visible."

(go incognito if you've already voted to see it.)
 
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xdashguy

Member
Feb 9, 2016
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I think all masternodes should be anonymized if possible. There is a big issue with normal wallets that are not connected to the anonymization network. In that case, I recommendthe default implementation of Dash wallet should use anonymization network. There are ways to make this really user-friendly. As an example, have a look at http://www.bitsquare.io/. No need to install tor or anything. It just connects you similiar to the tor browser bundle. Very user friendly. (seriously, Dash should hire them to design a wallet for Dash. They make good software).

2) Not all wallets will use anonymity of course. So, there should be public bridges. My belief is that some masternode owners will run their masternode in the anonymity network and also run the public bridge? Why? As we have already seen from the poll results, a certain % of people do not care about anonymity / privacy. Regardless that it strengthens the network from attacks, etc, they don't care. So, those people would be great candidates for running a bridge on the same server they use for the master node (of course reducing their individual anonymity, but they don't care about that anyway). Also, different jurisdictions have different risk factors. When the US declare masternode owners as conspiracists in money laundering and India declare masternodes as nuetral common carriers, well I imagine US owners will want to be anonymous and indian ones won't care as much.

3) I believe masternodes are compensated now with some "uptime" measure which I assume is just pinging their IP address essentially. Naturally, that won't work for anonymity, so the alternative would be pinging their tor hidden service url or whatever

In my view, there is a problem with anonymization and that is latency, reliability, resource constraints of anonymous networks like Tor (and I assume I2P). That is the only real roadblock that I can see. As far as broadcasting transactions it should be more than sufficient. But, if Dash plans to implement global storage among nodes, then it really depends how much will be written / read from this storage. Will it be 100kb/sec, 1mb/sec, 10 mb/sec, or 100mb/sec. My guess is that an anonymouse network could handle the use case of <= 5mb/sec, but would probably not work reliably for 100mb/sec. That is a lot of data though. I am not sure I could see Dash needing to utilizing that much bandwidth per node.
 

demo

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After the DDOS, this poll becomes very important.
And of course there is only one solution proposed until now that may solve the problem, and this is mine.

<vote history>
Should we compel the core team to implement an anonymizing layer (i2p, tor etc)
*Yes, all MNs anonymized 24 vote(s) 42.1%
Yes, but MNOs choose IP based or anonymous 16 vote(s) 28.1%

No, all MNs should run on public IPs 17 vote(s) 29.8%
</vote history>
 
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demo

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although this poll does not allow people to change their mind, it is interesting to keep the vote history until a new more relevant poll appears.

<vote history> <-- why vote history is usefull?
Should we compel the core team to implement an anonymizing layer (i2p, tor etc)
*Yes, all MNs anonymized 26 vote(s) 44.1%
Yes, but MNOs choose IP based or anonymous 16 vote(s) 27.1%
No, all MNs should run on public IPs 17 vote(s) 28.8%
</vote history>
 
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GrandMasterDash

Grizzled Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Jul 12, 2015
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PIVX allows TOR nodes.
http://178.254.23.111/~pub/DN/DN_masternode_payments_stats.html

Current Number of Masternodes: 1945 (unique IPs: 1945, IPv6: 947, TOR: 418)
See point 5 of the roadmap, "ADAPI (private Tor-routed DAPI implementation for PrivateSend)"
https://github.com/dashpay/dash-roadmap/blob/master/README.md

Looks like there's going to be a major upgrade to PrivateSend.

The big thing missing from all of this is no upgrade to InstantSend i.e. they should make all transactions instant, not an option.
 
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demo

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Apr 23, 2016
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<vote history>
Should we compel the core team to implement an anonymizing layer (i2p, tor etc)
*Yes, all MNs anonymized 27 vote(s) 42.2%
Yes, but MNOs choose IP based or anonymous 19 vote(s) 29.7%
No, all MNs should run on public IPs 18 vote(s) 28.1%
</vote history>
 

demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
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demo

Well-known Member
Apr 23, 2016
3,113
263
153
Dash Address
XnpT2YQaYpyh7F9twM6EtDMn1TCDCEEgNX
<vote history>
Should we compel the core team to implement an anonymizing layer (i2p, tor etc)
*Yes, all MNs anonymized 29 vote(s) 43.3%
Yes, but MNOs choose IP based or anonymous 20 vote(s) 29.9%
No, all MNs should run on public IPs 18 vote(s) 26.9%
</vote history>