On why we should give 0.1 DASH proposals a chance

Technologov

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Mar 5, 2017
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Dear Dash Nation!

Many have voted to lower the new proposal fee to 0.1, but many others remain skeptical.
And I understand. One hacker with 100 DASH can flood the network with a 1000 proposals easily.

But in my opinion the risk is justified. Even if worst case scenario will happen we will simply move Vote proposal discussion over to forum, or reddit, but we still can vote on the blockchain.

But we do have an evidence that such attack is unlikely: Wikipedia works by now, despite an endless chances of hackers and vandals to damage it. In reality damage was limited. And so it will be for DASH.

Hacker will lose $7000 in Dash only to move discussions to another forum, but voting will be the same. Decentralized.

What do we lose by keeping fees high at 5 DASH?
We may lose a bunch of small start-ups and academic projects that utilize Dash for receiving grants to write scientific papers. And if DASH spikes to a $1000, and proposal at $5000 will drive people out from even proposing.

Academic projects such as this one will be left in the cold:
https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/introduction-to-my-extraordinary-proposal.13651/

So I call to everyone to reduce fees to a very low value to allow a free trade of opinions and proposals, and our goal should be to receive multiple proposals for every DASH we have in budget.

I call everyone who voted against my proposal to reconsider and vote for me, and for the Free Market !!!

https://www.dashcentral.org/p/Reduce_proposal_fees_to_dot1_DASH

-Technologov
 
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toknormal

Guest
5 Dash is nothing for posting a proposal.

If it's any good and the proposer is genuinely stuck for a couple of hundred bucks they can easily raise it from the community if there's a genuine worth to it.

Hell you could just about raise it in tips alone on the Dash Nation slack.

I do not agree with lowering the fee to 0.1 at all. The DAO is hard enough to manage as it is, being almost void of accountability, 'pay now ask questions later', 'monetary firehose' etc.

I didn't realise there was a proposal to lower the threshold and now that I have will definitely be voting against it. In fact I think it should be increased to 10 Dash ;)
 

Populandum

Well-known Member
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Apr 9, 2014
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The proposal fee has grown together with the whole ecosystem, so why change it? We now have a higher price, more funds to give out for bigger projects and proposals cost more. I see this as a balance you aim to shift. As the Dash ecosystem grows we don't need masternodes to vote for these low value proposals, but only for the bigger ones. The bigger ones can redistribute to the smaller ones or the smaller can seek direct funding from masternodes, community or Evan perhaps? If we want Dash to keep growing we can't aim low; let proposals become the very serious endeavour it was always meant to be!
 

Fiicus

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Mar 24, 2017
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The thing is, we get a lot of proposals as it stands, not quite enough good proposals, but we get a lot. I'd rather have a higher fee, and higher quality of proposals, than a lower fee with worse proposals. But, I do believe that we need to be able to have a "Street team" of sorts, meaning, people who do very low scale work spreading the news about dash and get paid a small amount, similar to that german guy who wants to write his thesis on Dash. To many people, in many countries, 5 dash is absolutely prohibitory, even 1 dash would require quite a leap of faith on their parts. We shouldn't be exclusionary just because the salary in another country is but a fraction of the salary here. Third world countries NEED dash, and we shouldn't make it a currency that they can't be a part of just because they were born in a poor country. Not being able to afford $500 equivalent, is not a sign of poverty, lack of work ethic, lack of skill, or lack of ambition in other countries, it's just a fact of life.

I have a solution for this though. As Dash grows, masternodes will have increasing levels of responsibility, and at some point it will be very taxing. We'll have to ignore tiny proposals, anything that isn't worth at least 10 dash, is going to be relatively worthless to us. If Dash is worth say, $500, then every proposal would need to be worth $5000. This would be very prohibitory, but for good reason, it would be too much work to review every small proposal. So, why not have the dash IBAs count 10 dash, as 1 vote, and we give them a .1 dash fee for proposals, and all smaller proposals would go through them. They would in essence handle all the small stuff, if it was necessary, we could have them lump their proposals together, and have a MN vote on their combined proposals. I'm not sure of the best way to enact this idea, but we're going to need it at some point, lest we decide that a more grassroots approach to growth is pointless, which would be a mistake.

We obviously don't need this right now, we can't even technically do it before Evolution. But if we did this, we could split say 1/10th of our treasury funds to this project, and as dash grows in value, we may eventually need to rebalance things. But right now, I think a .1 fee is too small, I've seen a lot of arguments that the fee used to be $5 and it worked, but the treasury wasn't worth $600k or so back then. I do believe a 1 Dash fee is superior to a 5 Dash fee, but I'm not confident on that. If we were to use the IBA as a secondary DAO of sorts, we'd be able to solve the problem of taking in small, smart proposals, while filtering the amount of work MNs need to do as to not make the proposal system too cumbersome which would lead to an even smaller % of MN voters. --note-- I am not saying this is the exact way things should go, but I think it's the right direction for the proposal process, having differing levels of involvement from MNs who handle the big stuff, to partial investors who handle the smaller stuff.
 
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TanteStefana

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I don't want to cut out people in Africa, South and Central America, the Caribian, Asia, etc. I'm in the USA and I can't afford it!
 

camosoul

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Sep 19, 2014
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What do we lose by keeping fees high at 5 DASH?
We may lose a bunch of small start-ups and academic projects that utilize Dash for receiving grants to write scientific papers. And if DASH spikes to a $1000, and proposal at $5000 will drive people out from even proposing.
I'd like to support some of these things in the future, but right now it's brass tacks.

There are absolutely critical things that DASH needs to do before it cut open the golden goose to get all those eggs. We've already got a huge amount of pork and corruption that the suckernodes aren't intelligent or mature enough to stop.

There is a tremendous amount of money, work, and manpower being spent on nonsense. MNOs are too immature an inexperienced with managing money and corporate-like entities to trim the fat. Which at this point is the overwhelming bulk of DASH. Since there is no fiscal penalty for it, they don't do anything about it. The result is that it is amplifying the echo chamber effect. The leadership is paying attention only to it's own internal wants and ideas, and completely ignoring the reasons why nobody in the real world wants to use DASH, even though it has the killer combination feature set... They're content to get their dicks sucked by a bunch of yes men and ignore reality because thy're never succeeded at anything before. It's their first time in the spotlight and they can't keep their eyes on the prize.

It's a case of the blind leading the blinder.
 

Vedran Yoweri

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Apr 29, 2015
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I don't want to cut out people in Africa, South and Central America, the Caribian, Asia, etc. I'm in the USA and I can't afford it!
Me neither. We fund a tipping bot, there are ways.
Call it a monthly 'goodwill fund', must be from a existing trusted girl. Thread, discussions, funding or not.
 

demo

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Apr 23, 2016
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Me neither. We fund a tipping bot, there are ways.
Call it a monthly 'goodwill fund', must be from a existing trusted girl. Thread, discussions, funding or not.
The masternodes cannot be found, all together, in a thread or in a forum!!!
The only place where we can find the masternodes, is in the governance system!
 
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TanteStefana

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I'm not really anyone, and I've spoken my peace in the slack and here. Maybe it has to get so bad that nobody puts in a proposal before they do something?

Or maybe they're smarter than I am, it's definitely happened before...

I honestly thought it was going to be lower when 12.1 came out
 

akhavr

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Oct 11, 2014
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If there would be a big deal of proposals, that would not justify 5 DASH submission fee, then were are their pre-proposal discussions?

My idea is to go without the fee change until we can, by combining proposals together and collecting donations for the fee. Or running the whole project on donations until the point it can pay the submission fee.

Since we can't change the proposal submission fee every time there's spike in the price, some kind of such process has to grow. Sooner is better.
 

demo

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Apr 23, 2016
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Since we can't change the proposal submission fee every time there's spike in the price, .....
Of course you can. And you should.
 

demo

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Apr 23, 2016
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You again with your 0.1

Learn to take "No" for an answer!
This NO is going to turn against you. Beware ot the wrath of the Newbies.
 

ampp

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Feb 12, 2017
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Submitting the same proposal once or twice and failing needs to be painful. I wish you would of tried for 1 dash instead of 0.1. If the price is cheap then you will see the same proposal many times over. Masternodes time has to be worth something.
 

JZA

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I support this proposal, I think many people are ignorant to what the DASH treasury is about and how the fees has nothing to do with moderating the nature of the proposals but the voting system instead.
 

JZA

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Submitting the same proposal once or twice and failing needs to be painful. I wish you would of tried for 1 dash instead of 0.1. If the price is cheap then you will see the same proposal many times over. Masternodes time has to be worth something.
I still think that he should have explained himself better and understand why this is important more than the individual situation of white priviledge people.