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Masternode owners, let's stop voting on dumb sh*t. We need FOCUS.

Meh, once the converstion devolves into "I'm triggered by facts, reeeeeee!!!!" There's nothing productive coming from it.

Turned off to the argument because fact... Fuck me, snowflakes are everywhere.

Hate facts? Patriarchy? Intersectional cryptotardism...

Want to see a "racist" fact in math? Remove the Hispanics and the Blacks from the IQ calculations in the USA, and watch the average jump from 95 to well over 100... It's just a fact. Get over it. Eliminate the democrats and it jumps over 120!

Remove all the voting districts that are heavily democrat and have harsh gun control, and you end up with a country that has 10x more guns than people, and statistically immeasurable crime of any kind... IT's the most one-sided statistical analysis ever performed by mortal minds, yet somehow there's a "gun debate" to be had.... Liars.

Oh no, those facts go against your agenda! REEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!! Be offended! Reject all points made by the speaker! Be "turned off" to the argument... 10,000 facepalms.
 
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Dash News Network said:
Let's stop with the cheesy "Street Team" marketing stuff. Dash isn't a fad for teens in the 1980s. It has the budget to be doing much bigger things, that actually matter.
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I agree. Where's your proposal? The cheesy marketing stuff will go away when it is replaced by better quality proposals.
 
Dash News Network said:
You should read The Bell Curve
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Two travelling salesmen selling the identical product at the identical price are invited to make a presentation to 100 potential customers. One shows up, makes a presentation, and sells out his product. The other didn't bother showing up because his research indicated (correctly) that the average income of the 100 potential customers was too low.

Which salesman would you rather have working for Dash?

If you were one of the potential customers whose income was well above the average, would you feel insulted by the salesman who didn't bother to show up?
 
Whaaa, you won't let me shut down the conversation by being offended by the facts, so I will declare the facts meaningless with pseudo-science!

This is why I'm renouncing my citizenship and living on a boat. Everywhere I go, fucktards.
 
jimbursch said:
Two travelling salesmen selling the identical product at the identical price are invited to make a presentation to 100 potential customers. One shows up, makes a presentation, and sells out his product. The other didn't bother showing up because his research indicated (correctly) that the average income of the 100 potential customers was too low.

Which salesman would you rather have working for Dash?

If you were one of the potential customers whose income was well above the average, would you feel insulted by the salesman who didn't bother to show up?
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I think that might be missing the point though. A better analogy would be the following: you have a finite amount of resources to pay for salesmen to anywhere in the world. What percentage of those resources should you send toward various regions, and why?
 
I feel a need to comment, given that my Leopards soccer project was mentioned in the Original Post. I'll repeat my earlier response to @RGXDK :

Remember that we have two very distinct kinds of people:
  1. People who buy Dash for investment purposes need an hour 's presentation to persuade them to buy some.
  2. But Dash is not just for hodling... it is supposed to become Digital Cash. I'm working on this use-case. Cash has no demographic... and if we are to promote adoption of Dash, we simply need to reach many people to make them aware of the brand, and provide incentive for them to start using it instead of fiat. These people won't care about concepts such as the blockchain.... they'll care only that this new kind of money is better... and they'll explain it to one-another. IQ and race don't matter. If they can use m-Pesa, they can use Dash.
Rather than burning the very small amount of Dash that we seek, would it not be better to give soccer a chance? To evaluate whether it provides value to Dash?

I've received funding, and the project is proceeding. I think it will provide great ROI. I cannot provide accurate metrics for you, but I can tell you that much of a small community of 50000 people already love the Dash brand. Next we'll teach them what Dash is, and how to use it. Please follow the story on Dash Africa....
 
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qwizzie said:
What is the outcome that we are seeking?
Nothing will come close to Evolution in terms of influencing price, number of transactions and adoption. So Evolution must be prioritized, and everything else is secondary.

Dash Evolution is already prioritized with additional funding, so its an invalid argument. Why throw money at the Core-Team, when they dont need it ?

Do we want the price of Dash to rise?
Integrating Dash with exchanges like Coinbase & similar overseas will do more than anything else.

Unlikely outcome, at best it will raise the price of Dash temperarily. Maybe good for daytraders, but not particular interesting for longterm investors

Do we want the number of transactions to increase?
Allowing e-commerce platforms to accept Dash (Shopify, Volusion, BigCommerce) will do more than anything else.

Nope, current proposals like Alt36, partnership with Cannabis, Bitcart (20% discount on Amazon), the API integration with BlockCypher and the upcoming Dash Evolution will do the trick just fine.

Do we want more people to know about Dash?
Spend money on online advertisement (Google Adwords). Instead of paying $20 to have a user install a wallet, we can track a conversion for $0.15. We are a digital currency, let's not advertise on soccer matches or in acrobatic airplanes.

That acrobatic airplane is a very good example of funding that got us the maximum results as the budget proposal owner did way more than just delivering what he promised, he actually attracted new businesses which
was outside the scope of his budget proposal. All the international Dash promotion and presentation budget proposals that got funded and perhaps will get funding in the future, will get more people to know about Dash.
I doubt some online advertisement will do the same. This does not mean i dont vote yes on good online advertisements, they just dont get higher priority from me over other budget proposals.
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This.
 
@DashingDude

#1 It's better not to create coins and dilute the currency supply of everyone than to spend on projects like soccer.

#2 There are way more than 2 types of people and your argument is flawed.

#3 Soccer game isn't the right media to advertise for a digital currency.
 
RGXDK said:
Thanks for your contribution but this is targeted to MNOs only.
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That sounds suspiciously like the ad hominem attack you just complained about.

With regards to social media ads, they're working on that, with metrics and everything. Yelling, "But we want it FASTER." actually has no effect.

If you calculate the actual dilution effect of say ~10% of the monthly budget that you propose to not emit, it's a rounding error in terms of the inflation it will cause and the resulting theoretical loss of value. Feel free to show me the math if you feel I am incorrect in my assertion. I notice you didn't respond to the first request for the actual math either.

And the idea that not voting for A will somehow magically produce more high quality proposals (B) is...unsupported.

I'd be in favor of getting on Coinbase. Why don't you go ask them? I'm sure that's the hold up, nobody thought to ask them. With your superior people skills, it should be a snap.

"Allowing e-commerce platforms to accept Dash (Shopify, Volusion, BigCommerce) will do more than anything else."

That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works. You think we are not allowing Shopify or Volusion or BigCommerce to integrate Dash? Really?
 
@solarguy

Alright. I want the best for Dash and I am assuming so does you. I am willing to engage in a productive conversation with you about this topic. Before we begin I need to know exactly what is your opinion and what things we agree/disagree. I'll need you to stop misrepresenting what I say with the Strawman fallacy (i.e. "Yelling, "But we want it FASTER." actually has no effect.") and with just plan stupid arguments such as "Why don't you go ask them? ... With your superior people skills, it should be a snap.".

Can you do that? Ok let's begin. My points are:

A) we are spending money on proposals with doubtful or zero ROI.
B) it's better for Dash if the money is not created than spent on these proposals.
C) these proposals are diluting our focus and there is a real loss in opportunity cost for better ones.

I want you to tell me if you agree or disagree with A B and C. If you disagree, explain why. Please don't make any other points so we can try to keep this short.
 
@RGXDK in response to your comments:

#1 It's better not to create coins and dilute the currency supply of everyone than to spend on projects like soccer.

I am not a big soccer-fan. I barely watch any sports at all. But why would companies like Vodacom sponsor soccer if they didn't receive value in return? Why does Red Bull sponsor extreme sport? This is the game of marketing, and soccer offers great opportunities. I asked for just 3.3 Dash to try the idea. Why shoot that down?

#2 There are way more than 2 types of people and your argument is flawed.

Although people come in many colors, races and genders, the problem-solving principles of Occam's Razor suggest that the division into 2 types of people is a valid approach. Please elaborate on the flaws in my argument.

#3 Soccer game isn't the right media to advertise for a digital currency.

Why not? Can you refer me to another project that has tried, and failed? And can you give me a reason why this isn't, at least, worth a try?

I think that the DashForceOne jet-plane proposal was rather expensive, but it certainly provided a return, and we all love it! Soccer-funding costs a fraction of the price, and comes with added benefits.

And have you even bothered to follow my story on the blog? You could try a Google Search to see what soccer is doing already.
 
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RGXDK said:
Why not what? Project that has tried and failed what?
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In other words, the idea of a digital currency funding soccer teams is new and has not been tried before, afaik. If you could describe some examples of funds being wasted on failed soccer projects, that would be informative. Otherwise I think that most would agree, that this is worth a try.
 
RGXDK said:
@solarguy

Alright. I want the best for Dash and I am assuming so does you. I am willing to engage in a productive conversation with you about this topic. Before we begin I need to know exactly what is your opinion and what things we agree/disagree. I'll need you to stop misrepresenting what I say with the Strawman fallacy (i.e. "Yelling, "But we want it FASTER." actually has no effect.") and with just plan stupid arguments such as "Why don't you go ask them? ... With your superior people skills, it should be a snap.".

Can you do that? Ok let's begin. My points are:

A) we are spending money on proposals with doubtful or zero ROI.
B) it's better for Dash if the money is not created than spent on these proposals.
C) these proposals are diluting our focus and there is a real loss in opportunity cost for better ones.

I want you to tell me if you agree or disagree with A B and C. If you disagree, explain why. Please don't make any other points so we can try to keep this short.
Click to expand...

A) Zero ROI, no. And proving a negative is logically impossible, so that point is based strictly on gut feeling and opinion. Certainly ahead of time, you cannot prove that a proposal has zero ROI, and I cannot prove it has any meaningful ROI. After the fact, we have certainly had some proposals with zero ROI, but that's hindsight 20/20. It doesn't do us any good in the context we are discussing.

"Doubtful ROI"...this is not a binary condition, doubtful or not doubtful. Some will be more doubtful, some will be less doubtful. There are legitimate scientific methods to quantify risk, which is pretty much synonymous with "doubtful", but we rarely if ever have enough data and time to make those calculations in a useful amount of time. Now we're back to opinions, gut feelings, business acumen, the judging of character. These are all pretty fuzzy and hard to pin down. Certainly, there are some proposals that are obvious fails, like hiring ex-navy seals to rescue children from the sex trade, or giving somebody we've never heard about a million dollars to set up a Dash exclusive exchange. I voted no, and with enthusiasm. And some are obvious slam-dunk yes votes. Many are in the grey area.

B) You are implying that it's obvious which proposals are worthless or nearly so. And I would agree, some are obvious. But in my opinion, not as many as in your opinion. In reality, every proposal has to be analyzed with regard to the potential upside versus the potential down side. I certainly am not of the opinion that if Dash gets a benefit of even 5 dollars, let's just spend the money. I'd rather burn it.

C) your 'C' statement assumes two things. It's obvious which are the good proposals and which are the worthless proposals. I think it's a little more complex than that. And the second assumption is that even if the budget is not all spent, the borderline and/or the difficult to quantify ROI proposals somehow inhibit the adoption of the better high ROI proposals, or prevents them from even being proposed somehow. I don't think that's true at all.

Once you get real competition, and we have more proposals than we have money in a given budget cycle, then you are absolutely correct that picking loser proposals has definite opportunity costs if that bumps the much better, very high ROI proposals. But now we're back to trying to evaluate what's a good proposal and what's a bad proposal. So, either show me the objective method/math that separates the good from the bad, or we're right back to opinions and gut feelings, which you say you want to avoid.


Sure, I'm all in favor of doing effective broad scale digital marketing with very straightforward methods to evaluate success/ROI. They are working on it. Do I want it to be here really fast like today? Sure. But there's no magic wand that just makes that happen.
 
If I can derive any sense from this debate, @RGXDK is worried that many small proposals are a waste-of-time, and perhaps he is correct. Hence, there are many efforts to remove the proposal evaluation burden from the MNOs ... to let sub-DAOs deal with the small admin.
 
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