KUVACASH COIN OFFERING -Majority Cheating Minority.

Is accepting coins from KUVAcash to vote ethically correct?

  • Yes

    Votes: 3 50.0%
  • No

    Votes: 3 50.0%

  • Total voters
    6
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Argon31

Member
Mar 10, 2018
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The Kuva Cash VCO is complete fraud and one that will come back to haunt Dash for a very long time.

Masternodes are not owners of Dash who can collect a bribe or a gratification to vote for a project on behalf of all Dash hodlers. If a coin has to be issued, it has to be issued to every single dash holder in proportion of their stake. Otherwise it is a bribe.

Even if the free coins are swinging one extra vote, it is totally dishonest and will come under the purview of the SEC, should anyone complain about privileged members abusing their vote and position to get a bribe. The amount is not important.

Kuvacash guys are aggressively mocking anyone who questions them. @JOL is being sidelined for his lack of english and @DeepBlue for being logical.

There should be a debate on how ethical this is.
 

technoir

New Member
Jun 14, 2016
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"All MNO’s who have voted on the #Kuvacash proposal ***(Yes, No or Abstain)*** will be eligible to claim Kuvacash Utility Notes (UN’s)."

So if this has any effect, it will be to ensure higher turnout for that particular vote rather than swinging the vote towards YES as you're suggesting.
 

tungfa

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Apr 9, 2014
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The Kuva Cash VCO is complete fraud and one that will come back to haunt Dash for a very long time.

Masternodes are not owners of Dash who can collect a bribe or a gratification to vote for a project on behalf of all Dash hodlers. If a coin has to be issued, it has to be issued to every single dash holder in proportion of their stake. Otherwise it is a bribe.

Even if the free coins are swinging one extra vote, it is totally dishonest and will come under the purview of the SEC, should anyone complain about privileged members abusing their vote and position to get a bribe. The amount is not important.

Kuvacash guys are aggressively mocking anyone who questions them. @JOL is being sidelined for his lack of english and @DeepBlue for being logical.

There should be a debate on how ethical this is.
was out of the loop (sick) and have no idea what you are talking about ?!
what proposal (link) ?
what free coins (link) ?
ty
 

Triptolemoose

New Member
Aug 30, 2015
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was out of the loop (sick) and have no idea what you are talking about ?!
what proposal (link) ?
what free coins (link) ?
ty
Argon has the VCO (Vote Controlled Offering) all wrong, and to call it fraud is ludicrous. He needs to educate himself before posting his fraud-accusation nonsense.

The VCO has been and gone last year. There was no bribe. Anyone who voted, be it Yes, No or Abstain, received Utility Notes. It was announced close to the end of the third month of funding after votes were already in, as an incentive to encourage Masternodes to actually show up and vote. This is because participation in the DGBB was very low, about 25% of MNOs actively voting.

People who voted back then can register at https://vco.kuvacash.com and receive Utility Notes once they are issued. No one from the Kuvacash team hold any equity in Kuvacash, and Utility Notes are not equity.

Also: re DeepBlue, he is just being deliberately disruptive, all his questions have been answered, as have Jol’s. DeepBlue is now just digging himself into a hole but I hope he will come right soon.

I think you know the proposal Tungfa, you did already comment on it. But again, it’s not a free coin offering as Argon is stating above.

https://www.dashcentral.org/p/KuvacashBaseFunding002
 
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Triptolemoose

New Member
Aug 30, 2015
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If a coin has to be issued, it has to be issued to every single dash holder in proportion of their stake. Otherwise it is a bribe.

I hope you understand what technoir has pointed out re: vco,... and maybe taken some time to catch up on what Kuvacash have been doing.

I’d just like to add that your requirement to hand out Utility Notes to every dash holder isn’t correct either. Masternodes already have coins (1.67 Dash) issued to them on a regular basis (every 9 days) that are not ‘shared’ with ‘every single dash holder’.

If masternodes put in the ‘work’ to ‘show up, evaluate a project and vote’, then they can collect some Utility Notes as issued by the Kuvacash VCO. I.E. They are paid to work (place a vote), not paid to vote in a particular way (Yes, No, Abstain).

Please correct your misleading “fraud alert” headline in this thread. Otherwise, I’ll just have to put you in the same basket as DeepBlue.

Peace
 

Argon31

Member
Mar 10, 2018
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@tungfa They are offering free coins to anyone who voted (Yes/No/Abstain) for their previous proposal.
@Ryan Taylor : What does the legal team think about this?

@Triptolemoose

I can see 10 legal problems coming dash's way under the purview of RICO, should someone decide to take us down.
Clearly you are ignorant don't know jack about how the law works.


I'll try and explain but I :

So you are saying that if Trump announces $1000 promissory note to everyone who comes and votes in the elections and will become legal tender **if he wins*.
Will that be okay because this is exactly what your client is doing. Also, the notes will only be issued to a particular **race** and not everyone.

MNs are paid for locking up their coins and providing services. What you are doing is promoting bribery.

Dont be such a .... to defend something so obviously wrong to someone with a strain of common sense forget legal expertise.
 
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DirtyExpert

Member
Feb 19, 2018
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The Kuva Cash VCO is complete fraud and one that will come back to haunt Dash for a very long time.

Masternodes are not owners of Dash who can collect a bribe or a gratification to vote for a project on behalf of all Dash hodlers. If a coin has to be issued, it has to be issued to every single dash holder in proportion of their stake. Otherwise it is a bribe.

Even if the free coins are swinging one extra vote, it is totally dishonest and will come under the purview of the SEC, should anyone complain about privileged members abusing their vote and position to get a bribe. The amount is not important.

Kuvacash guys are aggressively mocking anyone who questions them. @JOL is being sidelined for his lack of english and @DeepBlue for being logical.

There should be a debate on how ethical this is.
IMHO the SEC will not get involved with the average crypto currency as they are NOT securities. They do have some authority over exchanges but not currency. I believe it will be one of the major players in the space already who will step up and take the reigns as far as regulation goes. Otherwise there will be no respect for their decisions and may oppose the policies. I hope that someone steps up soon before Trump(although the greatest president at 16 months in my lifetime) issues an executive order calling for a crypto czar.
 

DirtyExpert

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Feb 19, 2018
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@tungfa They are offering free coins to anyone who voted (Yes/No/Abstain) for their previous proposal.
@Ryan Taylor : What does the legal team think about this?

@Triptolemoose

I can see 10 legal problems coming dash's way under the purview of RICO, should someone decide to take us down.
Clearly you are ignorant don't know jack about how the law works.


I'll try and explain but I :

So you are saying that if Trump announces $1000 promissory note to everyone who comes and votes in the elections and will become legal tender **if he wins*.
Will that be okay because this is exactly what your client is doing. Also, the notes will only be issued to a particular **race** and not everyone.

MNs are paid for locking up their coins and providing services. What you are doing is promoting bribery.

Dont be such a scumbag to defend something so obviously wrong to someone with a strain of common sense forget legal expertise.
Yes as long as it was "without prejudice of political views" and offered to everyone. Furthermore you sir are the irrational and rude one if I may say so
 

tungfa

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Apr 9, 2014
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@Argon31
stop screaming at people and watch your language !!!
 

Argon31

Member
Mar 10, 2018
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If you think that bribing people to vote(yes/no/abstain) is alright, with an incentive tied to the yes vote, then I really dont know what else to say.

Yes as long as it was "without prejudice of political views" and offered to everyone. Furthermore you sir are the irrational and rude one if I may say so
 

Triptolemoose

New Member
Aug 30, 2015
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If you think that bribing people to vote(yes/no/abstain) is alright, with an incentive tied to the yes vote, then I really dont know what else to say.
You are being disingenuous Argon31, there was no incentive tied to the yes vote. Everyone who bothered voting (Yes/No/Abstain) receives Utility Notes, which are not equity.

In addition, the current Kuvacash proposal is not a VCO, so don’t frame it as such. It is a base funding proposal.

Did you bother viewing the April Kuvacash update? Please answer either yes or no, just so we know if you are informed about the project and its legals, or maybe you are just here to troll.

The Kuvacash team are very transparent about everything, including the legals surrounding the VCO and their legal representation. Maybe you simply haven’t paid any attention.
 

Argon31

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Mar 10, 2018
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I am talking about this vote, not the previous vote. If Dash votes out Kuva, it will be probably dead in the water making the gratification worthless.

I have seen the Kuvacash update, what about it?

Can you explain the following simple problem : Lets take out the important legal question or if RICO applies here.

Is it ethically or morally correct to reward privileged people who care to vote for something with a direct incentive(FREE COINS) tied to the yes vote?

Yes or No?
 

DirtyExpert

Member
Feb 19, 2018
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I was under the impression the incentive applied to any vote as long as they voted. Offering money to vote a certain way can only be done by the democratic national committee, otherwise it is unethical, immoral and illegal. Are you sure Hillary isn't with them?
 

Triptolemoose

New Member
Aug 30, 2015
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I am talking about this vote, not the previous vote. If Dash votes out Kuva, it will be probably dead in the water making the gratification worthless.

I have seen the Kuvacash update, what about it?

Can you explain the following simple problem : Lets take out the important legal question or if RICO applies here.

Is it ethically or morally correct to reward privileged people who care to vote for something with a direct incentive(FREE COINS) tied to the yes vote?

Yes or No?
If you are talking about the current vote, then you should know it is not a VCO. The VCO has been and gone.

You seem to be suggesting that Kuvacash will be valueless if it misses a round of funding? Your comment is just pointless speculation. Your set-up above for a Yes/No answer is disingenuous, as it is not based on facts.

The guys have already demonstrated the wallet and are dedicated to bringing Dash to Zimbabwe. They are strongly aligned with Dash Core, have support from Dash core CEO Ryan, and are one of the biggest and most important projects for the Dash network. They will even be presenting alongside Dash Core at the upcoming conference in June.

Re: The April update, legals are covered, so your concern is unfounded. Did you really watch it?

I think you are confused regarding the project. Kuvacash are a team of highly experienced professionals.

I’ve had a read through your other posts on here and it’s pretty obvious you have an agenda of disruption. I guess that’s why that walking Dunning-Kruger-in-effect, DeepBlue, called you in.

If you want to have a discussion about Kuvacash, and the (historical) Kuvacash VCO then stick to the facts. If you want to talk about fantasy situations that you dream up, then that’s your prerogative, but I’m not going to stand by and watch you spread lies and falsehoods about the Kuvacash project.
 
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Triptolemoose

New Member
Aug 30, 2015
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@Triptolemoose

I can see 10 legal problems coming dash's way under the purview of RICO, should someone decide to take us down.
Clearly you are ignorant don't know jack about how the law works.


I'll try and explain
Yes Argon31, please spell it out and explain how RICO works and applies in this case.

Alleging that "The Kuva Cash VCO is a complete fraud" and that RICO applies (criminal fraud), is an intentionally false statement that harms the reputation of the members of the Kuvacash project in the eyes of the public. You should explain the basis of this allegation.

Otherwise, if you have no basis for making this allegation, then you should know it to be false, and if any laws are being broken, it would be defamation law.
 
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Max Yoga

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Jan 23, 2017
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@Argon31 the title of this forum post is both innacurate and a clear case of defamation, regardless of whether ‘DeepBlue’, who has been spamming the proposal page endlessly has roped you in to try to disparage us, or not.

If this is the case, then I encourage you to go and read DeepBlue’s endless postings on the Kuvacash Base Funding 002 proposal, which have now descended into a cringeworthy display of ego defence by DeepBlue, and have a think about what side of this want to be on.

Note; we didn’t have to offer a VCO or for that matter give anything back to MNO’s who have engaged with us on the project. We did it AFTER votes were in and the project was successfully funded. Anybody who bothered to engage in the voting process is eligible to receive Utility Notes in the VCO, regardless of their vote. Whether this next base funding round 002 is funded or not, the VCO stands and we will honour it.

1. The VCO is a voluntary vote-controlled air drop of what is essentially another cryptocurrency used as crypto-collateral in Kuvacash. We have had preliminary legal advice that shows there is very low risk that SEC will look at this (approaching the chance that they would look at Dash masternode owners as being issued and trading in securities).

2. Should any proposal owner bribe for votes, I would expect that MNO’s rightfully defund that proposal. This is absolutely not the case with the Kuvacash proposal, you clearly have misunderstood the whole idea completely.

The VCO was arranged to drive engagement of MNO’s on the proposal, which it succeeded in doing and to give something back for this engagement. It has also been and gone, with only the claims left to process.

I suggest you amend the title of this post in light of the above response, or you will be construed to simply be trying to sabotage the Kuvacash project along with DeepBlue. Again, have a think about what side of this you want to be on. We are making history here and I genuinely want you to be on the winning side of this, with us.

Thanks,
Drako
 
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Arthyron

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May 29, 2017
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This issue is already cut and dry and resolved. For a long time the MNOs have been talking about how the DAO will be interfacing with the projects it funds as our legal standing solidifies. In the future, it may even be the case that the DAO actually *owns* equity or shares or even entire companies in whole as subsidiaries. The VCO issued by KuvaCash was an attempt by KuvaCash to give something back to the DAO and not merely just take from it like so many projects do. It gave to all MNOs who took the time to participate in their proposal--without discriminating--the same stake in their project that the team itself has. The KuvaCash team doesn't actually hold equity or shares in KuvaCash either, but their own stake in the VCO.

This is not a bribe, it's not a security, this was already established by the legal teams of both entities. KuvaCash has even been working directly with Core members for much of its development. There is nothing illicit about the VCO, and it does not in any way place Dash or the DAO or MNOs in danger. This was already established after the *last* vote, and nothing about *this* vote will change *any* of that.

Stop spreading misinformation every time you dislike something--which is pretty much everything. Stop being rude to people out of spite and ignorance. I'm tired of cleaning up your messes. You're. not. helping. anyone. Get over yourself and get out of the way.
 

JOL

Member
Feb 8, 2017
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The point you miss, why a MN who dont receved Note, have to support transaction from Kuvacash ? MN network is one .
in my case i vote with my MNs in 2017, not with others MNs than a buy after this vote.
Every MN are equal in Dash.
What about a MNO who was in an hospital the month of the vote ? and is 50 MN who support Dash transaction for every users of Dash ? Does he have to black list Kuvacash wallet ?

how many Note token in total ?
How many Note token per MN who vote ?
How many Note token for Dash partial and arbitrary network ?
What menanism or code prevent corruption, by distribuing more Note token to some MNO ?
What mecanism or code prevent minority of the Dash partial and arbitrary network by distributing Note tokken to 1 or 2 men (or women) ?
Why a MN have to support Kuvacash Dash transaction without Vote tokken ?
Why an other coin ? if Kuvacash is all in Dash ? Why not only 1note token = 1 Dash, if you have a Dash you have a Note tokken. You want to buy note coin, easy, buy Dash.
Dash have one DAO where all MN are equal.

And because i support this project, im very attentif at that important details.

And no i dont vote for creat a new coin in 2017.
 

Barrett Davis

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Nov 28, 2017
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This entire thread was possibly the worst way to approach this topic...

I'm a huge fan of Kuvacash. I love what they are doing and bringing to the dash community. I think this is pretty wrong and unethical, mostly because it starts a REALLY bad precedent.

Nothing of monetary value should ever be exchanged for a MN vote. Ever. Haven't we learned this from politics over the last few hundred years??

I don't really cringe that hard at MNO's getting an airdrop...

I REALLY cringe when MNO's start `wanting` and accepting gifts for votes.

Here's scenario 1:

MNO's get airdrop
MNO's have to vote on more kuvacash base funding 3 in 2019... while the airdrop X is still worth nothing... MNO keeps voting to make sure airdrop becomes valuable.

Here's scenario 2:

MNO's get aidrop
Kuvacash stops operating
Next proposal that lacks serious funding, "why not VCO"
MNO's awaiting airdrop 2X
Airdrop addiction begins ~

Scenario 3:

If you have a great business, people will fund your business.

Here's some ways~

- Angel funding, VC funding, friends and family, family offices, subsidies from the government, other block chain funds, a bank loan, a credit line, an accelerator, or even your crazy uncle.

I just think this could end badly for the community (regardless of kuvacash).
 

Triptolemoose

New Member
Aug 30, 2015
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This entire thread was possibly the worst way to approach this topic...

I'm a huge fan of Kuvacash. I love what they are doing and bringing to the dash community. I think this is pretty wrong and unethical, mostly because it starts a REALLY bad precedent.

Nothing of monetary value should ever be exchanged for a MN vote. Ever. Haven't we learned this from politics over the last few hundred years??

I don't really cringe that hard at MNO's getting an airdrop...

I REALLY cringe when MNO's start `wanting` and accepting gifts for votes.

Here's scenario 1:

MNO's get airdrop
MNO's have to vote on more kuvacash base funding 3 in 2019... while the airdrop X is still worth nothing... MNO keeps voting to make sure airdrop becomes valuable.

Here's scenario 2:

MNO's get aidrop
Kuvacash stops operating
Next proposal that lacks serious funding, "why not VCO"
MNO's awaiting airdrop 2X
Airdrop addiction begins ~

Scenario 3:

If you have a great business, people will fund your business.

Here's some ways~

- Angel funding, VC funding, friends and family, family offices, subsidies from the government, other block chain funds, a bank loan, a credit line, an accelerator, or even your crazy uncle.

I just think this could end badly for the community (regardless of kuvacash).
I think the way that Kuvacash shared via the VCO last year was very fair and not unethical at all.

Masternode owners are the big long term holders and investors in Dash, they need to make sure Dash will succeed, so it is right that they be rewarded for doing their research into various proposals so they can make correct funding decisions, (and punished if they make the wrong ones).

This is the new digital economy. People get airdrops all the time. You cannot pretend that this kind of VCO deal wasn’t coming... it was inevitable, and I’m glad Kuvacash were the first to come forward and own it. They are leading by example with an ethical way to present it.

There was no bribe for a vote, the VCO was announced at the third round of funding, after all the votes were in. The Kuvacash team simply wanted to share back with the MNO community, as well as to incentivise MNOs to participate in the vote. Right now less than 25% of MNOs bother to vote, which is a huge problem! Kuvacash saw a way to address this problem.

Who knows what value the Utility Notes will hold. They haven’t been released or traded. I’m sure they will have some nominal value, as they are used as collateral by Kuvacash for their agents.

You could argue that the weekly payments to masternodes are unethical, you could argue a lot of things by stretching your imagination.

If you look at Evan’s vision for Dash, he talks about Sub-DAOs. Maybe Kuvacash will be the second Sub-DAO (with Dash core being the first).

Whatever your thoughts or ideas, the VCO process makes Dash a super-interesting project to be involved with, and can only increase desire for Masternode ownership.

Arguably, the Kuvacash VCO even could be one of the most interesting developments which has come out of the Network since the DGBB was set up.

VCOs, and probably variants of the process are coming, we have to accept the inevitable, and I’m glad it was the Kuvacash team who brought this forward.

I trust the Kuvacash team are professional, aligned with Dash Core, and working with the best interests of Dash in mind.

You speak about alternative funding. The Kuvacash team are dedicated to Dash and wish to share the success of the project with the network.
We have to be realistic. If they had decided to raise funds for Kuvacash via an ICO, they would have easily raised $10MM+ with the idea and the team that they have assembled.

Therefore, it’s pretty obvious through their chosen path, that they wish to grow the business to become one of Dash’s biggest assets, and be aligned with the Dash network, sharing the success of the project.

For me, this is the simplest explanation, and therefore probably more accurate than any wild conspiracy theories or fraud accusations. They have no reason to risk their reputations.
 
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JOL

Member
Feb 8, 2017
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You clear vision on this is right.
mostly because it starts a REALLY bad precedent..
Sorry i have to correct you, you miss the point than thats not the 1st time. We alrealdy have a case before.
A proposal owner use corruption yet in semi-publicly and assum it was a normale way of doing thing in hes sector.

nothing realy new in fact, just one bad exemple who pass, let other think, "why not, some one tel its normal and fair"

No one around Dash need someting else soon, with Daps, Dash and Dao, they have all every one need for manage a sub-DAO.
 

TroyDASH

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Jul 31, 2015
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Masternode owners are the big long term holders and investors in Dash, they need to make sure Dash will succeed, so it is right that they be rewarded for doing their research into various proposals so they can make correct funding decisions, (and punished if they make the wrong ones).
The protocol already takes care of this. Additionally, unlike the dash collateral - with regard to the VCO tokens, there is no punishment for making a wrong choice, only a reward, which might be non-zero even if it is the wrong choice.

This is the new digital economy. People get airdrops all the time. You cannot pretend that this kind of VCO deal wasn’t coming... it was inevitable, and I’m glad Kuvacash were the first to come forward and own it. They are leading by example with an ethical way to present it.

There was no bribe for a vote, the VCO was announced at the third round of funding, after all the votes were in. The Kuvacash team simply wanted to share back with the MNO community, as well as to incentivise MNOs to participate in the vote. Right now less than 25% of MNOs bother to vote, which is a huge problem! Kuvacash saw a way to address this problem.
Small correction - the VCO was announced before the voting closed on the third month of funding (not all votes were in). However at the time of the announcement I believe the proposal was already over the 10% threshold, so I think it is unreasonable for people to claim that the VCO was an attempt to buy votes.

That being said, I would rather have had Kuvacash distribute to all MNOs or to all dash holders, not just MNs that voted. If you incentivize MNs to vote with anything of value other than the Dash collateral, then you are incentivizing uninformed votes (votes that the MNO would otherwise not have cast). So although I think it is a stretch to call this unethical, it might not have been the best way to go about it.
 
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Triptolemoose

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Aug 30, 2015
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The protocol already takes care of this. Additionally, unlike the dash collateral - with regard to the VCO tokens, there is no punishment for making a wrong choice, only a reward, which might be non-zero even if it is the wrong choice.



Small correction - the VCO was announced before the voting closed on the third month of funding (not all votes were in). However at the time of the announcement I believe the proposal was already over the 10% threshold, so I think it is unreasonable for people to claim that the VCO was an attempt to buy votes.

That being said, I would rather have had Kuvacash distribute to all MNOs or to all dash holders, not just MNs that voted. If you incentivize MNs to vote with anything of value other than the Dash collateral, then you are incentivizing uninformed votes (votes that the MNO would otherwise not have cast). So although I think it is a stretch to call this unethical, it might not have been the best way to go about it.
Can you explain the VCO re: no punishment for wrong choice? I’m not sure I understand what you mean there. Surely bad investment decisions in projects can lead to loss of capital for MNOs if the price of MN tanks = punishment.

And yes, votes were pretty much all in before VCO was announced, but project was well over the 10% funding threshold and in the third month. So strictly speaking, yes, more votes could have come in, but ineffectual. People needed a heads-up to engage and vote, and the team gave plenty of notice.

You can see the votes rolling in on the vote tracker, they look very flat even after the VCO announcement: https://dashvotetracker.com/history.php?ProposalID=346

Not sure how you’d incentivise uninformed votes. You have to trust that MNOs will vote for projects that will increase the value of their investment, or achieve things that they are aligned with.

Why should everyone get Utility Notes? If they don’t bother engaging then they miss out. Otherwise the incentive to vote disappears. The turn out has been pretty dismal, with under 25% of MNs bothering to vote.

The biggest risk I see here on the forum is a defamation case re: baseless criminal fraud accusation.

@tungfa you need to get onto this ASAP and clean up the thread.
 
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Arthyron

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May 29, 2017
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@JOL - If you voted from a different MN address then, you should be able to redeem your VCO distribution by using the private keys from that old MN address the same way you'd do so with any airdrop, so that's not a problem. The VCO tokens perform different functions within the KuvaCash system than Dash. Fiat money (dollars) are converted in to Dash to be used for digital payment. The VCO tokens are held as collateral to allow agents to act as agents on the platform and perform other functions. They're separate systems. The VCO tokens aren't for buying or exchanging Dash.

@Barrett Davis - The MNOs have been talking about this for a while, to see if there is some way for the DAO to actually *invest* in these projects instead of throwing away money on them, for the DAO as a whole to see a return. We've talked about if the DAO can legally eventually own equity or shares in the projects it funds, could we see those shares or dividends used to buy more Dash for the Treasury, etc? One of the options was to actually have those dividends paid directly to MNOs, which as you can guess there were mixed opinions and disagreements about, but it was one of the things that has been discussed, and I think the VCO was predicated upon that discussion.

The one thing I think you're forgetting is that the KuvaCash team don't actually hold equity or shares in KuvaCash, they hold VCO tokens just like the ones they're going to distribute to MNOs, that's their stake in the project, same as MNOs, same as the Agents that will need to hold VCO tokens as collateral to facilitate the fiat on/off ramps. KuvaCash didn't want to *reward* or *bribe* Dash, they wanted to *partner* with Dash in a way no other project has been able to give back so far. Whether that was good, bad, ethical, unethical is up for debate, but it's important to understand what their intent and methodology was in carrying things out the way they did.

If you're *going* to partner with the DAO, that's about as good a way as can be implemented until our legal standing solidifies and we can actually receive disbursements back to the treasury.
 

Argon31

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Mar 10, 2018
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Is it the job of Kuvacash to sit in judgement on who votes and who doesnt and reward people accordingly?

Who in the ..... world are you to reward or punish anyone for voting or not voting. Stay within your limits and pitch like anyone else.

The VCO comes under the purview of securities fraud, where people abuse their position to get illegal benefits. This is an open and shut case.
By collecting free coins(or whatever else) on behalf of everyone else, MNs are getting what can be construed as a bribe to vote.

The fact that it was done while the voting was on makes it more glaring and unethical. It is not your job to fix the turnout.

Your assertions on it did not affect the voting are is non-legal opinion to say the least. If it could have affected the voting thats all that matters.

People like troydash running public companies only need one complaint of this nature to get entangled in a first rate legal mess.
 

Triptolemoose

New Member
Aug 30, 2015
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Is it the job of Kuvacash to sit in judgement on who votes and who doesnt and reward people accordingly?

Who in the ..... world are you to reward or punish anyone for voting or not voting. Stay within your limits and pitch like anyone else.

The VCO comes under the purview of securities fraud, where people abuse their position to get illegal benefits. This is an open and shut case.
By collecting free coins(or whatever else) on behalf of everyone else, MNs are getting what can be construed as a bribe to vote.

The fact that it was done while the voting was on makes it more glaring and unethical. It is not your job to fix the turnout.

Your assertions on it did not affect the voting are is non-legal opinion to say the least. If it could have affected the voting thats all that matters.

People like troydash running public companies only need one complaint of this nature to get entangled in a first rate legal mess.
I’m still waiting for your explanation how RICO applies in this case, as well as what the ‘10 legal issues’ are that you mentioned.

Until then we can assume You clearly have no idea. There are no laws that apply - Utility Notes are not securities.

It's actually defamation to allege fraud with no grounds - nothing fraudulent here - nobody is making a false promise.

I can see your account was only set up recently, and most of your comments revolve around attacking proposal owners, so I assume you are here to cause legal issues by engaging in defamation on the Dash forum.

@tungfa you should clean this thread.
 

Argon31

Member
Mar 10, 2018
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As for the commonsense or non-legal point:

Turnout is by far the biggest factor in deciding if a proposal goes through or not since all proposals dont get equal votes.


Ben Swann, has the almost lowest yes to no vote ratio in all the proposals that have ever made it. He only made it because he had a huge turnout. 2:
Only Evan Duffield had something go through with something similar. ( Remember Instax Soda Machine Anyone? :) )

A proposal with a 500-250 yes- no ratio is dead but a propopsal with a 1000-500 count will still make it.

So you are digging your own grave by saying that you were incentivizing turnout, which is a kind of fraud in itself.
 

Triptolemoose

New Member
Aug 30, 2015
29
24
3
As for the commonsense or non-legal point:

Turnout is by far the biggest factor in deciding if a proposal goes through or not since all proposals dont get equal votes.


Ben Swann, has the almost lowest yes to no vote ratio in all the proposals that have ever made it. He only made it because he had a huge turnout. 2:
Only Evan Duffield had something go through with something similar. ( Remember Instax Soda Machine Anyone? :) )

A proposal with a 500-250 yes- no ratio is dead but a propopsal with a 1000-500 count will still make it.

So you are digging your own grave by saying that you were incentivizing turnout, which is a kind of fraud in itself.
All the stats can be seen on dash vote tracker.

Ethically you might argue it’s an attempt to incentivise. But again, it is defamation to allege criminal fraud with no legal grounds.

So please spell out your explanation of how RICO applies (criminal fraud) in this case, or you are on the hook for defamation.
 
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tungfa

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Dash Core Team
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Apr 9, 2014
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i am shutting this down for now
there are a LOT of BIG words being thrown around with ZERO backup !!
Be Warned @Argon31 do NOT use "fraud" and the likes if u have no facts on hand !
(am waiting for other admins to suggest solution)
 
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