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Is there any way to game the Budget system ?

Icebucket

Active member
Im wondering about the Budget proposals funding mechanism, Is there any safeguard to fraud ?

I saw some development proposals and thought to my self that if I wanted It would be really easy to game this system. Throw up some proposal, clame that I can deliver and Dash away after the final funding.

Is there any kind of escrow for these kind of outside development funding ?
Some proof of actual development, or bounty payment when it has tested and ok-ed by some of the devs.
or maybe smart contracts ?

How about a old fashioned bounty fund for these kinds of proposals?

Just throwing this out there :rolleyes:
 
The budget proposal to build the website seems pretty fishy.

1) we were told a company was contracted for $5k to
Website and Design - $5000+ - Part 1 of 2
We have contracted a company to design our new fancy website and develop the software to run it. This is going to be quite the improvement over our existing website and we look forward to showing everyone!

Once we have the website built, we will ask for a second budget to reimburse the rest of the money that was spent.

-What company was contracted?
-Did they do any work?
-how much did they get paid?
-Who has the 2021 DASH that was sent here http://explorer.dashninja.pl/address/XoQTAYJRnFDaod7S8R2mgKn81ppRBtUSQw

And ended up here
http://explorer.dashninja.pl/address/XtKfoWXixgnWzTySSeiCGTpfu91STfCefG

Usually a prototype is shown by developers. This budget proposal was passed in october/november. If we contracted a company than there is no "oh were busy working on other things".

NO. We paid a company they have an obligation to give us what we paid for. 4-5 months nothing to show the community?

I've seen many core team members blatantly ignore me on this subject and it's starting to upset me.

*edit my friend works as a professional web desinger, he's built websites for all kinds of companies and people, including Matthew
mcconaughey and some big car companies.

He laughed when I told him how long this is taking.

Edit2** in response to your question. I dunno? Ask the person running the website funds they seem to have a handle on it.
 
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Yea - that "Website" is taking WAY to long.
Starting to think somebody kept the DASH
.....and the community takes the shaft

edit : spelling.
 
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IF you're talking to me - That DASH could have gone to other projects.......

Where is the Website?
Haven't seen any updates lately.....

Just because I can't see it does not mean I'm just going to forget about it.....
 
IF you're talking to me - That DASH could have gone to other projects.......

Where is the Website?
Haven't seen any updates lately.....

Just because I can't see it does not mean I'm just going to forget about it.....

Gone to other projects or maybe some other people who could actually produce a website... anything but... nothing?
 
IF you're talking to me - That DASH could have gone to other projects.......

Where is the Website?
Haven't seen any updates lately.....

Just because I can't see it does not mean I'm just going to forget about it.....

Watch out, if you start talking back and asking question the trolls will be after you like stink on shit.

But really...... UPDATES PLEASE PEOPLE.

The project was over funded, has had PLENTY of time to get finished, so can we get some updates please?
 
Im wondering about the Budget proposals funding mechanism, Is there any safeguard to fraud ?

I saw some development proposals and thought to my self that if I wanted It would be really easy to game this system. Throw up some proposal, clame that I can deliver and Dash away after the final funding.

Is there any kind of escrow for these kind of outside development funding ?
Some proof of actual development, or bounty payment when it has tested and ok-ed by some of the devs.
or maybe smart contracts ?

How about a old fashioned bounty fund for these kinds of proposals?

Just throwing this out there :rolleyes:

To answer the OP, of course you can "game" the system, but this "gaming" will have a limited impact.

Decentralized, open systems are robust in preventing systemic, massive, long-term corruption and fraud. However, they aren't as strong at preventing small, short-term fraud. Centralized, closed systems are the opposite: they can prevent small, short-term fraud pretty well, but they are susceptible to an "inner circle" of people being able to control the system completely to their own advantage.

Decentralized, open systems are often reputation-based. In such a system, one can pretty quickly gain a legitimate reputation and thus commit a fraud; however, the fraud will destroy the person's reputation and thus their ability to commit fraud in the system again. Also, the size of the fraud will be dependent on how much of a reputation one builds up (which takes time and energy).

So, for example, if Andreas Antonopoulos made a proposal to the Budget System for 300 Dash in order to promote Dash at some conference, there is a very good chance he would be approved, as he has a reputation already. But if he were to take that 300 Dash and then not do what he said, it would be very unlikely that he could ever get approved again. So small, short-term fraud, but no massive fraud. But in a centralized system, if Andreas were close friends with the CEO or other leaders, then he could defraud the company for years, skimming money from them every month with the consent of the leaders and without the knowledge of the users.

On the other hand, if a brand-new community member were to ask for 2000 Dash/month for 2 years for some project with very little specs, then it is highly unlikely that he would be able to get approved. Even if he were personal friends with Evan, and Evan vouched for him, then perhaps it might be initially approved, but if nothing came of it, eventually the project would lose approval. (This is the main reason I think Budget System v2 [multi-month contracts] should always include the ability to cancel a contract).

We also have to remember that the current Dash ecosystem is moving towards more complete decentralization, but it's not there yet (it's just too young). We all know that a large number of Masternodes are controlled by a small number of people, but they still have to work in the open - there are no truly "back-room" deals, as all proposals are on the blockchain. Plus, as early adopters they are the most incentivized to NOT game the system, since Dash as a fully-functioning cryptocurrency is in their best interests.
 
Sounds like the budget system is flawed, needs rethinking if it already has had budget stolen by the website guy.

Could smart-contracts be the answer ? they sound smart :what:
 
Sounds like the budget system is flawed, needs rethinking if it already has had budget stolen by the website guy.

Could smart-contracts be the answer ? they sound smart :what:

Smart contracts are not a way to avoid fraud, at least not in the way some have implemented them so far. I guess you could create a system to have coins returned to the owner if a contract is not fulfilled and this could be done based on a voting mechanism.

Masternode owners could vote, deciding if the proposal terms were met. If a majority vote agrees that the terms were met the funds stay with the contractor, if not they are returned. Funds could be held in escrow in this case or released gradually.

Let's take the case of this website. The contract could have very clear initial terms, like an estimated ETA 2 months or so. After two months , masternode owners would be called to vote on the results. If vote is positive, the coins stay with the contractor and if not they get returned.

Dash could have multiple types of contracts and contractor could choose which one he wants to go with based on a list of options. It would be less appealing for a contractor to risk having funds sent back but on the plus side he could get his proposal approved much faster.
 
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It becoming really funny to see the same guys talking to each other about pretty much the same topics in different places, hijacking the real topics... What is the goal here?

It looks like you have a lot of time, you are quite intelligent people and have some skills. And yet, you use them to perform negative actions most of the time (or at least I see them as negative in many cases).
I could hardly imagine how much positive outcomes you could make for this project if just spend all of this energy to do creative and useful work instead of repeatedly writing all of this negative content on the forum.
What a waste of good resources and your potential. Pitty.

PS. About the work on the new website - more details will be included in the next monthly report (I am not able to spend so much time on the forum as you and answer all requests - it is a simple trade for me: more time on the forum - less time for the real work).
Cheers!
 
It becoming really funny to see the same guys talking to each other about pretty much the same topics in different places, hijacking the real topics... What is the goal here?

It looks like you have a lot of time, you are quite intelligent people and have some skills. And yet, you use them to perform negative actions most of the time (or at least I see them as negative in many cases).
I could hardly imagine how much positive outcomes you could make for this project if just spend all of this energy to do creative and useful work instead of repeatedly writing all of this negative content on the forum.
What a waste of good resources and your potential. Pitty.

PS. About the work on the new website - more details will be included in the next monthly report (I am not able to spend so much time on the forum as you and answer all requests - it is a simple trade for me: more time on the forum - less time for the real work).
Cheers!

Oh its a simple question. Is a company building a fancy new website for us or not? If not then we were lied too in the proposal for 2021 dash.

A simple explination would clear it up.
 
Oh its a simple question. Is a company building a fancy new website for us or not? If not then we were lied too in the proposal for 2021 dash.

A simple explanation would clear it up.

The man is too busy to write out a yes or no answer. Instead he wants to further detract by keeping up this charade that we must all be trolls.


I'm more disappointed in you kot than you could POSSIBLY be in us. Trust me.
 
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They are the same voices talking about what others are thinking. Communication big or small is needed.
 
The man is too busy to write out a yes or no answer. Instead he wants to further detract by keeping up this charade that we must all be trolls.
Well - I did not ask you to explain if I am too busy or not nor to be my spokes-man - stop this please.


As mentioned before - there will be a communication with the monthly report.
Simple explanation: No company is building anything for us at the moment - this is only internal team working on this topic (first part with the external vendor is done).
 
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As mentioned before - there will be a communication with the monthly report.
Simple explanation: No company is building anything for us at the moment - this is only internal team working on this topic (first part with the external vendor is done).

Thank you.
 
As mentioned before - there will be a communication with the monthly report.
Simple explanation: No company is building anything for us at the moment - this is only internal team working on this topic (first part with the external vendor is done).

Thank you. Was that really that hard? A little effort goes a long way.
 
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