Impact of ASIC's on Dash difficulty

Voluntary

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May 14, 2016
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Has Dash let go of it's original goal of being ASIC proof? It would be trivial to make that hardware obsolete by tweaking X11...
 
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camosoul

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Sep 19, 2014
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Has Dash let go of it's original goal of being ASIC proof? It would be trivial to make that hardware obsolete by tweaking X11...
The more complex a static mining algorithm is, the more inevitable ASICs it will be, not resistant to them...

Same as Scrypt, X13, X11... They are not, and never were, ASIC resistant. They're actually ASIC specific. They were simply more complex to the point that it would require slightly more value before it would be worth making an ASIC. It's about market and nothing else.

It's like saying "There's no way this fish will ever be able to swim or breathe water."
 

Voluntary

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There are ways to achieve ASIC resistance - a somewhat extreme method would be to commit to tweaking / altering the proof of work on a routine basis so that too much of a moving target is created for manufacturers to be able to cope with.
 

rustycase

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Apr 19, 2016
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There are ways to achieve ASIC resistance - a somewhat extreme method would be to commit to tweaking / altering the proof of work on a routine basis so that too much of a moving target is created for manufacturers to be able to cope with.
I feel centralized mining could very easily deliver control over to some entity with an agenda, yet I must declare I am too new at this to comprehend benefits as opposed to perils and pitfalls.

Gemini mining has stated they conduct their operation on three continents, for whatever that may specifically entail, I would not know.

Very much I need to learn !
rc
 

tuppydog

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Why would Chinese companies go through all the trouble of creating these ASIC miners, only to mine dash, and also the ability of mining about 8-9 x11 Crap coins? Also, lets face it, miners are not looked at with favor here in the Dash community, not all, but mostly because of the "threat" that miners could "control" the currency, hence the tiny reward miners get for mining dash, and probably the high Hashrate may effect payouts to MNs now (i'm not sure how that works). My whole question is this: We now have 3 known companies that sell ASIC miners and they have absolutely flooded the market. You can't make any money off of buying these ASICs, and certainly not mining any of the other dying x11 coins. The whole thing is baffling to me, except that (what I want to believe) is that DASH's price will suddenly skyrocket. But honestly, I'm not seeing this happen, as it seems to be held down, and I've heard Evan has a plan to "thrwart the ASIC march. It costs an estimated 1M dollars to create from FPGA/ASIC to a Miner design. So a group (Chinese government involvement?) must have perhaps seen DASH as possibly the next Bitcoin (pure speculation on my part). Any ideas?

The next round of ASICs for x11, I believe, will be a big flop. There may be one more faster ASIC generation, if X11 isn't "tweaked" by Evan, but that will be it. I don't see why people would want to purchase these any longer.

What does everyone else think, skyrocketing difficulty, low pay, mining Dash now is futile and no fun.
 

rustycase

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Apr 19, 2016
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I'm sure those who venture into mining carefully calculate the ROI in advance of setting up shop.
Still, any sort of mining is difficult, in the least.
The utility rates here would not allow hobby mining at a reasonable cost !
I don't think the devs would forego a profitable mining community intentionally.
Best
rc
 

Stubby5000

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Jul 30, 2017
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Does anyone know how the difficulty is calculated in Dash?
I am incredibly confused about DASH difficulty. I can't get a clear answer on what the current value is! I can't post links bc I'm a new account, but if you google "dash difficulty" the first result (coinwarz) says it's 622,000; the second result (bitinfocharts) says it's 511,000; and the third result (also bitinfocharts, but in graph form) says it's 986,000. which is it?!?! anyone have a trusted source for this information?
 

Mahuro

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Jul 27, 2017
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(coinwarz) says it's 622,000; the second result (bitinfocharts) says it's 511,000; and the third result (also bitinfocharts, but in graph form) says it's 986,000. which is it?!?! anyone have a trusted source for this information?
Even if you reload the difficulty chart in coinwarz, this changes every hour. The best approximation to get the future difficulty is to make an average from past times and apply the increment to next two or three months. Even thus, it's difficult to predict anything without an accurate knowledge about the prices, the next generation miners hashrate (and when they would be online), and the network hashrate variation because this new miners. You may to believe in the future of mining dash or not, but you can't to predict without a big error margin anything IMHO :(
 

Stubby5000

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Jul 30, 2017
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forget predicting, I'd just like to know what it is at any given moment. it doesn't seem that any site can agree on that, and even information within sites varies wildly (example is bitinfocharts, which shows almost a two fold difference between their chart and their graph). this seems odd to me...
 

Mr.MeatyCoins

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Jul 31, 2017
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Like to know the answer to this as well. In about two months time i'm planning on buying a D3 to mine Dash. Hopefully they'll make another batch till then.

But is there no way that the devs created something that can't predict such things? Is there not a formula at all?

Also, what are your guy's opinions on the possible inflation once the first 100 people get their hands on the D3s. Will it possibly create the opposite affect, the first owners cashing in big time, while the rest that will follow will probably get an inflated price by then because of high supply but low demand?
 

rac00n

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Jul 28, 2017
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forget predicting, I'd just like to know what it is at any given moment. it doesn't seem that any site can agree on that, and even information within sites varies wildly (example is bitinfocharts, which shows almost a two fold difference between their chart and their graph). this seems odd to me...
Hi Stubby5000,
https://www.dash.org/network/#section-blockchain
This will give you the current difficulty, based on the most recent block.

The difficulty is rising at the rate we all expected with the release of so many ASIC's.
100k 3 months ago. 1000k now.
When the D3's and A5 Dashmasters hit, that number is going to keep skyrocketing.
 

Stubby5000

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Jul 30, 2017
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I think the addition of the D3s in about a month will be interesting. I have two thoughts:

1) I suspect the current rise in difficulty is due to Bitmain mining with their own D3s before they ship them out. You know, "testing" them. Recently the network hash rate has increased 15 Th/s AFTER the announcement of the D3. Bitmain mining with their own supply is the only scenario that could explain this. 15 Th/s is equivalent to 1000 D3s, or thousands upon thousands of its next closest competitor. There is no way that, after Bitmain made their D3 announcement, people ran out to buy Baikals or iBelinks in droves, knowing they would soon be obsolete. If anything, I would expect people to try and unload their old hardware before it becomes totally useless, thus difficulty should drop. For Bitmain, running 1000 D3s for one month would earn them roughly $5,000,000 USD. That's pretty tempting. I hope this is what happened, because it would mean that the D3s have already hit the network, and thus the meteoric rise in Difficulty that everyone is predicting on Sept. 15 has already happened, at least in part.

2) Once the D3 and A5s hit the network, mining Dash with anything else will be pointless, and presumably owners of older ASICs will mine a different X11 altcoin at that point. They will then leave the network, which will combat the Difficulty rise caused by the new heavyweight ASICs. I'd guess there is at least 15 Th/s worth of pre-D3 hardware on the network currently.

What do you think? Hopelessly optimistic?
 
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wndsnb

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I think the addition of the D3s in about a month will be interesting. I have two thoughts:

1) I suspect the current rise in difficulty is due to Bitmain mining with their own D3s before they ship them out. You know, "testing" them. Recently the network hash rate has increased 15 Th/s AFTER the announcement of the D3. Bitmain mining with their own supply is the only scenario that could explain this. 15 Th/s is equivalent to 1000 D3s, or thousands upon thousands of its next closest competitor. There is no way that, after Bitmain made their D3 announcement, people ran out to buy Baikals or iBelinks in droves, knowing they would soon be obsolete. If anything, I would expect people to try and unload their old hardware before it becomes totally useless, thus difficulty should drop. For Bitmain, running 1000 D3s for one month would earn them roughly $5,000,000 USD. That's pretty tempting. I hope this is what happened, because it would mean that the D3s have already hit the network, and thus the meteoric rise in Difficulty that everyone is predicting on Sept. 15 has already happened, at least in part.

2) Once the D3 and A5s hit the network, mining Dash with anything else will be pointless, and presumably owners of older ASICs will mine a different X11 altcoin at that point. They will then leave the network, which will combat the Difficulty rise caused by the new heavyweight ASICs. I'd guess there is at least 15 Th/s worth of pre-D3 hardware on the network currently.

What do you think? Hopelessly optimistic?
I'm sure some of the increase is from their testing, but getting set up to temporarily run 1000 1200W miners isn't exactly trivial. That's over 5000Amps at 240V ... and trying to get rid of 1,200,000W of heat? Could be the bulk of the increase is from sales to their business partners and investors that happened before the public offering.

And if they were going to set up the infrastructure to run them for a month, wouldn't they just continue to run them and cycle in new units as they ship?