Dash to two decimal places

GrandMasterDash

Grizzled Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Jul 12, 2015
3,139
1,227
1,183
Can people please suggest ways for how dash can be modified into a two decimal points system? (or possibly three decimal points). If we have possible solutions to that, then I think it could go up as a proposal. Thanks.
 

MangledBlue

Well-known Member
Jun 28, 2014
1,246
678
183
USA
You can change the number of decimal places in the wallet it's self
I'm at work so I can't lead you to it - but somebody will chime in soon....
If not - I'll be home in an hour to further assist you....

thx
 

crowning

Well-known Member
May 29, 2014
1,414
1,997
183
Alpha Centauri Bc
Can people please suggest ways for how dash can be modified into a two decimal points system? (or possibly three decimal points). If we have possible solutions to that, then I think it could go up as a proposal. Thanks.
If you're talking about the number of decimal digits displayed in the wallet I've implemented this some months ago, so you can send the Dash directly to me :tongue:
Decimals.jpg


[...damn, I should stop adding stuff to the wallet and wait until there's a proposal up...]
 

GrandMasterDash

Grizzled Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Jul 12, 2015
3,139
1,227
1,183
Not the display to two decimal places.. I meant the internal mechanics. How can dash ever be user-friendly / grandmother-friendly if it's format is alien and overwhelming?
 

crowning

Well-known Member
May 29, 2014
1,414
1,997
183
Alpha Centauri Bc
Not the display to two decimal places.. I meant the internal mechanics. How can dash ever be user-friendly / grandmother-friendly if it's format is alien and overwhelming?
If, with 'internaly', you mean what's used for computation then the answer is no.

Maximum supply of DASH is 19 millions, and right now our planet has around 7 billion habitants, so you would already need 3 digits just to give each one an average amount of Dash, which would then already be an insane value, so even more digits would be needed for everydays use.

But, don't worry, you can change the display-unit to have less decimal places and make it grandma-friendly with the option "Unit to show amounts in":
Decimals.jpg


As you can see here, I have selected milli-Dash, which would shift the decimal-point 3 digits to the right. And we also have micro-Dash and of course the base unit Duffs (equivalent to Satoshis in Bitcoin).

For grandma:

0.01 Dash =
10 mDash =
10000 µDash =
1000000 Duffs

It' like having $100 and $10 banknotes and $1 coins and cents.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

stan.distortion

Well-known Member
Oct 30, 2014
928
547
163
No advantage to limiting the number of places for dust control or darksend? I was thinking the places could be limited in the client if so, anything with more becomes a non standard transaction with higher fees with the place moved if its too big for reasonably sized microtransactions.
 

raganius

cryptoPag.com
Foundation Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
No advantage to limiting the number of places for dust control or darksend? I was thinking the places could be limited in the client if so, anything with more becomes a non standard transaction with higher fees with the place moved if its too big for reasonably sized microtransactions.
I think really micro transactions should not be limited. Because DASH should allow users to represent any value they might find useful (and sometimes what is dust for some might not be considered dust at all for others): I can imagine, for example, in really poor countries, with huge inflation, if people want to make, in DASH, the remittance of the value of a few units of their local currency (say, Zimbabwe, for instance)...


When I've entered the cryptocurrencies world, bitcoin promised cheap microtransactions available for all... I am not sure this will be held as truth for very long...

Anyway, from the technical perspective (which I have virtually none), I don't know if it is of any advantage for DASH.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: nmarley

nmarley

Administrator
Core Developer
Dash Core Team
Jun 28, 2014
369
427
133
Not the display to two decimal places.. I meant the internal mechanics. How can dash ever be user-friendly / grandmother-friendly if it's format is alien and overwhelming?
If we want grandmother to use it, we need to offer a better/easier interface. Not to cripple the internals of the currency.

There are very good design decisions that went into the ability to divide into 8 decimal places — what if Dash went to $1000 per? If Dash were limited to two decimal places, the minimum you could send is $10.

I really really am scratching my head at this proposal.
 
  • Like
Reactions: raganius

camosoul

Grizzled Member
Sep 19, 2014
2,261
1,130
1,183
My usual reply applies here. FIAT already exists. It is abused and inflated to suit those who won't/don't learn. Why would they learn how to computer anyway?

Duffs are just fine. The number of people willing to understand is small enough that we don't have to worry about handing out equivalent amounts of money to everyone on the planet. Even if you gave the same amount of money to everyone, the fools would soon waste it, and the same 1% would have it all, again. Still.

This is a non-existent problem that dwells only in the mind of a short-sighted fool. Fools already have money that suits them, fiat. DASH is money for non-fools and should not destroy itself for the illusory benefit of $15/hr burger flippers who can't even form sentences much less thoughts about finance and currency.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bridgewater

nmarley

Administrator
Core Developer
Dash Core Team
Jun 28, 2014
369
427
133
My usual reply applies here. FIAT already exists. It is abused and inflated to suit those who won't/don't learn. Why would they learn how to computer anyway?

Duffs are just fine. The number of people willing to understand is small enough that we don't have to worry about handing out equivalent amounts of money to everyone on the planet. Even if you gave the same amount of money to everyone, the fools would soon waste it, and the same 1% would have it all, again. Still.

This is a non-existent problem that dwells only in the mind of a short-sighted fool. Fools already have money that suits them, fiat. DASH is money for non-fools and should not destroy itself for the illusory benefit of $15/hr burger flippers who can't even form sentences much less thoughts about finance and currency.
Wow, you don't hold anything back. I like it. ;)
 

camosoul

Grizzled Member
Sep 19, 2014
2,261
1,130
1,183
Wow, you don't hold anything back. I like it. ;)
The truth should not be restrained. If reality offends someone, that person is divorced from reality and should be ignored immediately.

If grandma can't step up, grandma can stay a slave. This is the real world. You gain what you earn. If you want crappy fiat money, it already exists. Don't try to turn DASH into fiat. Half-assed crypto is everywhere, too. Go use Bitcoin or one of it's shitclones if you want crypto that only does part of the job.

I get sick of people who want to make DASH just as screwed up as other things that already exist. If you want garbage, go get it. It's already out there. DASH is for grown-ups with brains.

I'm all about reaching down to those who are desperately trying to scramble up. But for those who aren't even trying and expect it all to be handed to them; fuck 'em. I will bend over backwards and give the shirt off my back to help anyone who makes a real effort. I will not budge one millimeter for losers with their heads up their asses who can't be asked to get off the sofa and form a cogent thought.

It's like people who move from New York down to Florida. They want to escape the mess that New York has become, but they bring the stupidity with them and try to turn Florida into a shithole, too.

Don't turn DASH into crap. Crap already exists.

If you want something better, you have to step up to it's level. If you drag it down to your level, it's not better anymore! Duh!

Don't waltz into the dashtalk forum and tell us all that the problem with DASH is that it's not completely retarded, and if only it would become retarded, then it might have a chance...

I've often theorized that Evan might be Satoshi. There are obvious reasons why it's not true, but think about it...

Release a rough draft experiment. Do it anonymously because you know the world is full of idiots that will get mad when: you learn from that experiment and they don't. Then, with the things you learned from that experiment, create the real deal. Everyone hates you because Bitcoin was really just an experiment, exactly as Satoshi said, and all your holdings go up MtGOX 2.0 because, just like MtGOX 1.0, they were too stupid to see the writing on the wall.

I wouldn't want anyone to know who I was if I was the guy who got all their dumb asses invested in something that I told them was an experiment but they didn't listen... They always blame. And if a 6bil market cap disappears, there's gonna be a lot of entitled, violent, stupid, barbaric, bagholders looking for someone upon which to seek revenge...

Of course, the same thing can occur naturally in such a diverse ecosystem... If the guy who does it spends a lot of time in Mexico, he probably won't come back.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: nmarley

GrandMasterDash

Grizzled Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Jul 12, 2015
3,139
1,227
1,183
"Dash is digital cash"... that there is an aspiration for universality. Sticking to 8 decimal places (or whatever it is) is fine with me if dash is to remain a niche, serving specific people and functions. For anyone here that wants dash to be more mainstream than bitcoin - to beat them at their own game - then it's just simply not going to happen with 8 decimal places. Who hired the trolls to come here and tell us that dash should be just like bitcoin? Bitcoin's inability to change is EXACTLY why dash exists.. and then the hired trolls come here and tell us that we should have all those decimal places just like bitcoin!
 

MangledBlue

Well-known Member
Jun 28, 2014
1,246
678
183
USA
The DEC places are a needed function for future growth - explained above

- They won't be changed -

Change your wallet settings if you don't like them......



edit: and so can grand-mother...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: nmarley

Naruto

Member
Dec 26, 2014
176
89
88
You just need to use µDash as the unit. If you have 1 DASH and change to µDash you will become millionaire instanlly cos 1DASH = 1,000,000.00 µDash
Perhaps what you want is to have a better name than µDash (just like bitcoin have bits instead of ubtc)
Right??
 

nmarley

Administrator
Core Developer
Dash Core Team
Jun 28, 2014
369
427
133
"Dash is digital cash"... that there is an aspiration for universality. Sticking to 8 decimal places (or whatever it is) is fine with me if dash is to remain a niche, serving specific people and functions. For anyone here that wants dash to be more mainstream than bitcoin - to beat them at their own game - then it's just simply not going to happen with 8 decimal places. Who hired the trolls to come here and tell us that dash should be just like bitcoin? Bitcoin's inability to change is EXACTLY why dash exists.. and then the hired trolls come here and tell us that we should have all those decimal places just like bitcoin!
Did you see the valid arguments against doing that? This is an interface issue, not a technical issue.
 

GrandMasterDash

Grizzled Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Jul 12, 2015
3,139
1,227
1,183
Guys, I made a mistake when I said "internal mechanics", that's not quite what I meant to say. Using µDash is almost the solution I was thinking... however, what I do suggest is that we rename the units, so that µDash becomes the default unit and we simply rename it to "Dash". Yes, this would make most of us millionaires but that's ok because, you never know, maybe one day dash will rocket in value (USD).

The thing is this; people deal with digits to the left of a decimal point a lot easier than they do to the right. This was brought home recently when Amanda from the The Daily Decrypt got all confused over a similar problem. People, for example, understand $1,000,000 a lot easier than they understand 0.000001 - yes, people don't see "0.000001" as a millionth, even though it is.
 

MangledBlue

Well-known Member
Jun 28, 2014
1,246
678
183
USA
Still not a valid reason....


-The psychological understanding of numbers, left OR right of any decimal place, is an issue of the user and not of the system.

Education is something to behold - and grasp...

edit3ed: for simplicity - etc

Use knowledge to further yourself and others - observe and seize, HODL FIRMLY, the education you have free access to...



edit1 - if you're not willing to learn, you're willing to be left behind
edit2 - If you're willing to learn, nobody can stop you
 
Last edited by a moderator:

GrandMasterDash

Grizzled Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Jul 12, 2015
3,139
1,227
1,183
Still not a valid reason....


-The psychological understanding of numbers, left OR right of any decimal place, is an issue of the user and not of the system.

Education is something to behold - and grasp...


Defined:
be·hold
see or observe (a thing or person, especially a remarkable or impressive one)

grasp
seize and hold firmly



Use knowledge to further yourself and others - observe and seize, HODL FIRMLY, the education you have free access to...



edit1 - if you're not willing to learn, you're willing to be left behind
edit2 - If you're willing to learn, nobody can stop you
Good luck with that, educating 7 billion people how wrong and stupid they are.
 

raganius

cryptoPag.com
Foundation Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Guys, I made a mistake when I said "internal mechanics", that's not quite what I meant to say. Using µDash is almost the solution I was thinking... however, what I do suggest is that we rename the units, so that µDash becomes the default unit and we simply rename it to "Dash". Yes, this would make most of us millionaires but that's ok because, you never know, maybe one day dash will rocket in value (USD).

The thing is this; people deal with digits to the left of a decimal point a lot easier than they do to the right. This was brought home recently when Amanda from the The Daily Decrypt got all confused over a similar problem. People, for example, understand $1,000,000 a lot easier than they understand 0.000001 - yes, people don't see "0.000001" as a millionth, even though it is.
Or maybe we could simply choose a cool name for the denomination, and if people start using this 0.000001 DASH special denomination as the "basic currency", it would be natural to refer to it as the "currency", while DASH will always be the "official" name of the project, while still being one of the denominations for the currency (e.g. 1 DASH = 1,000,000 BASICs)...

...remember China with Renmimbi vs Yuan, Renmimbi being the name of the currency and Yuan being its basic unit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: aleix and Naruto

MangledBlue

Well-known Member
Jun 28, 2014
1,246
678
183
USA
1 DASH = 1.00000000
and 1 DUFF = 0.00000001
Is all there is right now, if given general names.
[count'em, 8 right? - ugh - so hard]


You keep asking - can we get new names for denominations...???

WHY not....
Completely changes the subject but -

1 DASH ========== 1 DASH
0.1 DASH ======== 10th of a DASH ==== 1 DASH Byte = __________________
0.01 DASH ======= 100th DASH ======= 1 DASH cent = __________________
0.001 DASH ====== 1000th DASH ====== 1 DASH mil == __________________
0.0001 DASH ===== 10000th DASH ===== 1 DASH 5th == __________________
0.00001 DASH ==== 100000th DASH ==== 1 DASH 6th == __________________
0.000001 DASH === 1000000th DASH === 1 DASH nano = __________________
0.0000001 DASH == 10000000th DASH == 1 DASH bit === __________________
0.00000001 DASH = 100000000th DASH = 1 DUFF ===== DUFF


fill in your own blanks.....



Let the debate continue...
 

raganius

cryptoPag.com
Foundation Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
1 DASH = 1.00000000
and 1 DUFF = 0.00000001
Is all there is right now, if given general names.
[count'em, 8 right? - ugh - so hard]


You keep asking - can we get new names for denominations...???

WHY not....
Completely changes the subject but -

1 DASH ========== 1 DASH
0.1 DASH ======== 10th of a DASH ==== 1 DASH Byte = __________________
0.01 DASH ======= 100th DASH ======= 1 DASH cent = __________________
0.001 DASH ====== 1000th DASH ====== 1 DASH mil == __________________
0.0001 DASH ===== 10000th DASH ===== 1 DASH 5th == __________________
0.00001 DASH ==== 100000th DASH ==== 1 DASH 6th == __________________
0.000001 DASH === 1000000th DASH === 1 DASH nano = __________________
0.0000001 DASH == 10000000th DASH == 1 DASH bit === __________________
0.00000001 DASH = 100000000th DASH = 1 DUFF ===== DUFF


fill in your own blanks.....



Let the debate continue...
lol


p.s. I'm naive enough to believe that IF dash intends to be the world electronic cash, it is necessary that it reaches the masses. I guess if the community tries to become a little less arrogant it would probably mean a huge step towards what I suppose are our objectives.

btw. let's try to be civil, at least among each other around here. We are not kids (I hope).

thank you... and sorry
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jeztah

GrandMasterDash

Grizzled Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Jul 12, 2015
3,139
1,227
1,183
Currently
- One dash is currently worth US$2.36.
- One bitcoin is currently worth 136 times the value of a dash.

1. With exponential success, if dash increased in value by 1000 times, one Duff would be worth 0.00236 cents. I'm all for micro-transactions, but the only argument I can see for that kind of micro-micro-transaction is per-second-metering... which you wouldn't want to do on-chain anyway because it may well involve millions of transactions per second (water, electricity etc). So my first thought it is that we dump the last two digits.

2. I would then suggest, that the internal representation would remain the same but all visible client representations would move the decimal 3 places to the right. Thus, an mDash (a thousandth) would simply become one "Dash".
4. The next two digits (one hundred thousandth) would become a "cent" or "penny", take your pick, these unit names are quite common around the world.
5. The last digit (μDash) would be a tenth of a cent.

That would give us a system to three decimal places which I think the public would tolerate.

Before After
1 Dash = 1,000 (a Flare?)
0.001 mDash = 1 Dash
0.00001 = 1 Cent / Penny
0.000001 μDash = 0.1 Cent / Penny
 

MangledBlue

Well-known Member
Jun 28, 2014
1,246
678
183
USA
So now you want to move the decimal place to cause a 1000X split?
...instead of 18 million DASH total max - you want there to be: 18 billion DASH?

so my 1000 DASH becomes 1 million DASH?

uh - no........
 

GrandMasterDash

Grizzled Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Jul 12, 2015
3,139
1,227
1,183
So now you want to move the decimal place to cause a 1000X split?
...instead of 18 million DASH total max - you want there to be: 18 billion DASH?

so my 1000 DASH becomes 1 million DASH?

uh - no........
What? - I didn't say anything about changing the supply. In point 2 I said the internal representation would remain the same.
 

bertlebbert

Active Member
Jul 17, 2014
670
289
133
So now you want to move the decimal place to cause a 1000X split?
...instead of 18 million DASH total max - you want there to be: 18 billion DASH?

so my 1000 DASH becomes 1 million DASH?

uh - no........
Actually, if you want to accelerate mass adoption, a 1000 for 1 split is not such a far fetched idea. Look at Doge, which has similar market cap and trading volume as Dash - and yet it has no features. All Doge has is over 100 billion coins outstanding, passed around by gazillions of people; and gazillions of coin holders would be a reason for merchants to consider accepting a coin (for tunes, games, etc.).
 
  • Like
Reactions: GrandMasterDash

camosoul

Grizzled Member
Sep 19, 2014
2,261
1,130
1,183
The decimal place is nothing but a convenience notion for human use. The finite unit is a single duff. The decimal point is irrelevant. Altering duff supply? GTFO! No one with a clue would ever suggest it.
 

camosoul

Grizzled Member
Sep 19, 2014
2,261
1,130
1,183
Actually, if you want to accelerate mass adoption, a 1000 for 1 split is not such a far fetched idea. Look at Doge, which has similar market cap and trading volume as Dash - and yet it has no features. All Doge has is over 100 billion coins outstanding, passed around by gazillions of people; and gazillions of coin holders would be a reason for merchants to consider accepting a coin (for tunes, games, etc.).
DOGE only has that because there is no diff and all the kiddies can mine it on their video cards with free electricity that mommy and daddy pay for. Ultrainflatable socialist coin, it's entire existence is based on the secret displacement of grown-ups who pay a power bill and don't realize it's being converted into a covert allowance augmentation. Without that, there would be no DOGE. And people debate the ethics of stealing electricity to mine other coins? Stealing electricity from one's own family is the solitary underpinning of DOGE...