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Dash needs new leadership and direction

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by GrandMasterDash, May 12, 2016.

  1. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    Do you want me to try it?

     
  2. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    How can they do something? They havent heard about dash the time you started coining, even some of them they are not born yet!!!

    I think you dont understand well the concept of the symmetry in space-time. Symmetry in space-time means that the same amount of work should result the same amount of dash, means also giving the same chances for everyone when mining. Do you think that the efford of the persons that initially started to mine dash (when mining was easy) deserves that value? These were not people who coded, they were just miners, they just put the code into their computer, and they gain dash very easy, whithout working.

    As long as dash is limited in number, and as long as many people are expected to arrive in dash , in order to respect the symmetry in space-time we have to give some dash to newcomers. If we dont, new generations will not trust this "old guy's coin" and they will not do transactions with it. And this will be the end of dash, because money is above all trust and transactions. Dash should be money , should have transactions, it should not be a collecting value of old guys, like bitcoin, diamonds, coins, gold or stamps.
     
    #32 demo, May 13, 2016
    Last edited: May 13, 2016
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  3. yidakee

    yidakee Well-known Member
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    This is the 4th thread where quantum mechanics are are used to establish that Dash is an existencial black hole.

    .
     
  4. balu

    balu Well-known Member
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    Sure, copy-paste works just like that. Oh my..
    If you really have no idea, why make a clown of yourself?

    There is a reason why Dash governance was created the way it is. If you'd like to have a direct influence on the direction of the development, you either need to DO something as @UdjinM6 already explained, or you need to be financially invested (owning MNs, thus being able to vote). You are trying a third approach, which as you can see, will fail. The unwritten code of conduct in this project should be clear: these are the two commonly agreed ways to contribute and influence decisions. If you have nothing at stake, your opinion weights less than that of those who are invested somehow. Deal with it.
     
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  5. crowning

    crowning Well-known Member

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    You're a bit late, others predicted this already when it still was called XCoin.

    BTW, you know the meaning of the word "symmetry", especially in the context of spacetime?
    You may want to check this and this and this .

    Please come back when you have at least a tiny idea how software development works.

    Thank you.
     
    #35 crowning, May 13, 2016
    Last edited: May 13, 2016
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  6. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    You are right. For now on I will change the term. "Economic symmetry in space-time" is the correct one.
     
  7. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    So theories have no value at all?
    From your point of view, maxwell who discovered electromagnetic fields is a moron.
    From your point of view, theorists didnt do something, they had nothing at stake, they were just talking.

    When you are explaining your theory, you are doing something. If you are coding without theory, you are doing nothing.
     
    #37 demo, May 13, 2016
    Last edited: May 13, 2016
  8. crowning

    crowning Well-known Member

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    You did read (and understand) this one: http://arxiv.org/pdf/0902.4274.pdf ? And understand the consequences of the weaknesses of this theory?
     
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  9. kot

    kot Administrator
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    So you find scientific theories comparable to wishful thinking and nonsense?
     
  10. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    Not only sientific theories. Theories in general, is what I am talking about. Moral theories, political theories, religious theories, economic theories, mahtematical theories e.t.c

    Everyone who express a theory, is doing something, even in case the theory is proved wrong.

    It is meaningless to ask a proof of stake, at the time the theory is expressed. This is what @balu is doing.
     
  11. balu

    balu Well-known Member
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    I love his arguments :D

    Btw demo, there's an actually awesome South Park episode (S01E09) about what happens when everybody's idea counts. Go watch it, I bet you'll find it more enjoyable than reading those complicated papers.

    @kot Do you see any value in creating a code of conduct-like onepager about how contributions are welcome in the project?
     
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  12. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    It is not the theory you discovered in interet, that happens to have the same name I just coined.
    Maybe I have to change the name again. I dont care about names, meaning is what matters.
     
  13. GrandMasterDash

    GrandMasterDash Well-known Member
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    I think I'd feel comfortable in a "Say any rubbish I want" forum :p
     
  14. kot

    kot Administrator
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    No - this is an open-source project.
    Everyone is welcome to contribute or use it (or stop using if don't like it). It should not be regulated by any code of conduct in my opinion.
     
  15. crowning

    crowning Well-known Member

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    This answer really qualifies you.
    "Ignore-list symmetry in space-time"
    applies. If you don't know what "Ignore-list symmetry in space-time" is , it means that not only did you happen to end in my ignore-list, but future generations will have the same amount of work to put you there.
    Have fun talking to yourself. Bye!
     
    #45 crowning, May 13, 2016
    Last edited: May 13, 2016
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  16. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    I think people in the South Park episode (S01E09) didnt have a system like that:
    I already asked you if you want me to implement it here, in order to produce the specifications that community as a whole desires to be writen in code. A constitution of what code should be written. For the new age to arrive, the age where the coder king will bow down to the will of the community.

    But you didnt answer to me.
     
    #46 demo, May 13, 2016
    Last edited: May 13, 2016
  17. balu

    balu Well-known Member
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    Ah, so back-edited your comments, had to read them again.

    But you're lack of reading skills is amazing.

    Let me quote it again for you what I wrote:
    "If you have nothing at stake, your opinion weights less than that of those who are invested somehow. Deal with it."

    Which you interpreted as: "So theories have no value at all?"

    If you feel like people are not giving your ideas the desired attention - which is the case apparently - you have two options:
    - bitch about it in a topic like this, which will not change things in your favor, I assure you
    - act upon it, either by sending in pull requests, creating a detailed proposal, or investing financially and thereby influencing the project

    I'm eager to see your executable, detailed plans.
     
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  18. balu

    balu Well-known Member
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  19. demo

    demo Well-known Member

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    Actually the only thing needed is a directory tree structure, in order to hang the polls on it.
    This can be done, for demonstration purposes, even here, in this forum, in a special place of course, so we will not bother the normal forum operation.

    This of course requires to give people the right to create topics in this special place. Topics, having a tree-directory structure, that can emulate how comes and polls are dependant eachother. Meaning a poll's existance is dependant on the result of a previous poll.

    By the way, I like very much your new rating system in posts! Good job! :)
     
    #49 demo, May 13, 2016
    Last edited: May 13, 2016
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  20. jpr

    jpr Active Member

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    I get the same feeling the community is falling apart.
    At the moment it feels like Evan is being surrounded by the core team and nobody else knows what's going on. But I also think it might be unavoidable since this project has become much bigger than it was in the past and there is no way he can be reading the forums daily and respond to people. Even if he does, it's up to him what he wants to do or not, while not coding.

    Unfortunately we are in the situation where the Open Source philosophy meets the world of money and business. It's not an easy one to digest. We all have invested our money in the project, hence we feel we can require stuff to be implemented or not. On the other hand it's Evan who leads the project and you simply can't tell him to code something he does not want to implement. So I think at this point our only choices here are to sell our investment if we don't like it anymore or trust the team and watch closely how it unfolds.
    Alternatively if we don't like what members of the Core Team are doing and we have some skills then we can simply start doing it better. Nobody will forbid me to start promoting dash, right? Or start working on a better wallet design (no offence crowning.) Nobody chose these guys to do what they do, they just want to do it.

    Sadly we are not in a position to tell our coders what to do. Not yet. So my question is what happens when the project gets much bigger? Big enough to be able to pay the developers a full salary? Will voting be the only decision maker? Or would that still be Evan and the core team?
     
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  21. balu

    balu Well-known Member
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    @jpr nobody has a clear answer to that. And that's a good thing - whatever works when it has to work will be the right system. For now, this is a non-issue, and we have tons of other high priority things to deal with.

    But one possible solution could be how afreer started working full time: https://www.dashwhale.org/p/evo-specifications
     
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  22. yidakee

    yidakee Well-known Member
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    @jpr

    The community is not falling apart. Yes there may be a few voices of dissent, which is natural as we are all humans (except maybe a cyborg or two?).

    Evan is creating his ideas, and people recognise it and contribute. Core team or core devs do not have structural decision making, they're just following a development roadmap put in place. Just following the lead of the visionary founder of the project. That's it.

    And what you say is quite right! Everyone is welcome to do better in any area they feel they're an added value.

    .
     
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  23. TanteStefana

    TanteStefana Grizzled Member
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    This makes no sense to me. First off, there are only a few people who are clueless as to what the Dash project is, and always has been since the start - which is Evan's vision to create an easy to use cash replacement. Evan has given us everything he plans on doing, as clear as he can make it, and even updates us when he changes his mind and comes up with something better. The direction AND the plan have been made perfectly clear. All they (the core team) are doing now is putting in the sweat to make it happen. Most of us (95% or more) understand this. There is nothing wrong with bringing up issues if you see a problem, or give out ideas, but if it's not working within the vision, and trust me, my ideas have been put down many times, then we must accept that it won't work or causes too many problems.

    RE: complaints I see on the forums:

    We need to be mature about having our ideas rejected, or even not heard because Evan can't respond to everyone anymore. As an example, I was seriously in love with some of my ideas and bugged everyone about them for quite some time, but in the end, I realized the team was RIGHT, and I was wrong. But I bugged 'em respectfully, maybe I whined a little (Oh, I wish you could please....) but never got in their face because I didn't like being told no.

    Ideas are welcome, but when they're rejected, one has to accept it. If one doesn't like it, one can go fork the project and do it their own way. There is nothing wrong with that, after all, it's the whole point of Open Source Projects. :)

    As far as the core team goes, they belong to Evan. Until the majority of share holders (MN owners) decide they don't want Evan anymore, and fire his team, Evan gets to decide who he wants to pay for their work and who he wants on his team, and we have nothing to say about it. Because in the end, Evan et al, are contractors for Dash, just like any other contractor who has made a proposal. And frankly, I think they've been doing an amazing job, so I'm not about to promote firing them. No way!
     
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  24. fible1

    fible1 Well-known Member
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    I just want to say I FULLY support Evan and the core team. They have shown great leadership and talent.

    This thread is crazy, I'm not sure why people are even responding to the trolling, it just encourages them.

    Pablo.
     
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  25. kot

    kot Administrator
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    You are right Pablo - these discussions are not productive and bring no value to Dash. Ciao.
     
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  26. ericsammons

    ericsammons Active Member
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    My son plays Little League baseball, and he is quite enthusiastic about it. To be honest, so am I. Last year he was in an important tournament and his coach made a number of decisions that I thought were ill-conceived and led to the team losing a tournament they should have won. Most of the decisions involved not playing my son as I thought he should be played. I'll admit that I was pretty upset about it (if you don't have kids or aren't involved in sports, you might not understand how intense it gets).

    However, I said nothing to the coach about it, and thanked him for his hard work. Why? Because if I had a problem with how the coaching was done, I can just start my own team and be the coach. Since I didn't put the time and effort into being the coach, I frankly didn't have the right to criticize what he was doing. If he asked me my opinion, I would have respectfully given it to him, but since he didn't, I kept my mouth shut.

    Take this story and apply it however you wish to this situation. :)
     
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  27. yidakee

    yidakee Well-known Member
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    I've had many many MANY fantastic and wonderful ideas through the years. I've proposed them, nagged a little to have me heard.

    Some seem as "simple" as pie, but impossible to implement (or were at the time, probably still are). I don't think any of my ideas ever got implemented, some quite "brilliant" if you ask me (because I am me, so I'm entitled), like incentivised P2pool mining, or File - Open - wallet-with-different-name-structure.dat ... or and 95% trustless pooled masternode system, numerous others, and this or that... Zero were implemented.

    Yet, I don't let my ego get the best of me. This is not "my" project because it's open-source and a DAO.

    .
     
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  28. TroyDASH

    TroyDASH Well-known Member

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    Even if the majority of shareholders (Masternodes) decided they don't want Evan, all they can do is stop him from getting funded. His team would still be his team and if they wanted to keep working on DASH without getting blockchain funding, there is nothing that could stop them, the "governance" ( or lack thereof) over protocol updates and how they propagate would be essentially the same as Bitcoin and other coins.
     
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  29. qwizzie

    qwizzie Well-known Member

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    "Dash needs new leadership and direction"

    I totally disagree, and frankly i find the title of this thread very arrogant of nature. If OP is really that upset with the
    direction that Dash is going then maybe it is time for OP to re-evaluate his involvement with Dash.
     
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  30. TaoOfSatoshi

    TaoOfSatoshi Grizzled Member

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    I would just like to say I had nothing to do with this thread, but I'm personally quite thankful for it. It took the heat off of me quite nicely, and here I agree with @kot, @yidakee, and @crowning.

    Our system is not perfect, no system is. But this thread will accomplish nothing.
     
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