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[Budget Proposal] DASH on the Aquidabã Tennis Open Campaign Reimbursement

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by raganius, Sep 18, 2015.

  1. raganius

    raganius cryptoPag.com
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    mnbudget vote a64c67c6d3cc6588fe8fe3c20c2ac1033296db9bf6eb2e1f1254b4b89bc8d765 yes

    [​IMG]

    I believe I am eligible to submit my expenses for the "DASH on the Aquidabã Tennis Open" campaign, which specific amounts were made public to the community at dashtalk.org/threads/dash-on-the-aquidaba-tennis-open.5424, as I have not been able to receive this reimbursement directly from the community, neither through my first attempt with the contribution address XqmYyTcrxhe9FvmdAvZ3u15NVeLZqfqT8W, nor with my follwing attempt with the offer for the selling of the remaining caps.

    I submit here for the community appreciation the reimbursement of 257.68166089 DASH, that have been used to cover the necessary expenses with the DASH on the Aquidabã Tennis Open campaign, in accordance with the following

    Expense Details

    TOTAL BRL 2,234.10 = 257.68166089 DASH (DASH-BRL price "8.67" according to DASHnegocios.com)


    - Printed Material: BRL 509.00
    • 1000 flyers: BRL 210.00
    • 01 Banner (175cm x 40cm): BRL 49.00
    • 02 Banners (80cm x 60cm): BRL 70.00
    • 500 Cards: BRL 180.00
    [​IMG]


    - The T-Shirts costs were shared with all the other sponsors. I have contributed with BRL 200.00;

    - The Cap: BRL 1,525.10;
    [​IMG]

    The reimbursement payment will be directed to the original contribution address for the campaign, at XqmYyTcrxhe9FvmdAvZ3u15NVeLZqfqT8W.

    For more information on the DASH on the Aquidabã Tennis Open, please refer to:
    Please, vote:
    mnbudget vote a64c67c6d3cc6588fe8fe3c20c2ac1033296db9bf6eb2e1f1254b4b89bc8d765 yes

    I remain at your disposal.

    Thank you.

    Ivan Liborio
    Raganius
     
    #1 raganius, Sep 18, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 27, 2015
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  2. TaoOfSatoshi

    TaoOfSatoshi Grizzled Member
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    Great exposure for Dash. I will vote yes.
     
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  3. alex-ru

    alex-ru Grizzled Member
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    Have you estimated effectiveness of your initiative?
    I mean "average cost of attracting a new Dash user" and such parameters...

    Would you recommend to repeat such actions? (I guess that various Internet PR is more cost effective than offline actions?)...

    Is there any other results? Maybe photos from the event we can use in DASH International promotion?

    Excuse me for the "inconvenient" questions, but I think investors (MN OPs) will be interested in answers in any case...
     
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  4. TaoOfSatoshi

    TaoOfSatoshi Grizzled Member
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    I think direct in person promotion is much more effective than Internet promotion. raganius took it upon himself to take the initiative and sponsor this event, creating interest in the currency, and I believe he should be reimbursed for it. Your questions are valid, though, and should be discussed for any future endeavours.

    EDIT: Voted, and my votes were counted right away, with no problems! Love this decentralized voting! :D
     
    #4 TaoOfSatoshi, Sep 18, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 18, 2015
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  5. AjM

    AjM Well-known Member
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    Done.
    mnbudget vote-many a64c67c6d3cc6588fe8fe3c20c2ac1033296db9bf6eb2e1f1254b4b89bc8d765 yes
     
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  6. alex-ru

    alex-ru Grizzled Member
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    Sorry, guys, but let me disagree...

    This voting isn't about "Is raganius a good guy or not?"
    I bet everybody will vote "raganius is super-cool guy, full of ideas and is very important for Dash community".
    Personally I am very inspired by his enthusiasm!!!

    But. If Decentralized budgeting is spending on non-effective actions - This means only one thing - "It doesn't work correct!"
    The worse thing is - everybody will see it doesn't work correct and it means the whole Dash project has a big problem... with all the consequences.
    And this is very dangerous precedent. :(

    If this voting was BEFORE those action and expenses - It may look quite justified - "System vote for testing of new way of promotion and so on".

    So if some action was ineffective (I hope it wasn't) - I believe it shouldn't be financed by 10% fund and discredit this System - And everybody who want to support raganius - instead of voting "yes" - may just send him a kind of donation to compensate these expenses.

    IMHO.

    P.S.
    raganius - I do like your initiatives and hope you won't get me wrong - nothing personal!
     
    #6 alex-ru, Sep 18, 2015
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  7. fuzzyduck

    fuzzyduck Active Member

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    You got my vote!
     
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  8. moli

    moli Grizzled Member

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    How do you estimate the "effectiveness" of an initiative? How do you estimate the value of any volunteer's labor that has been contributed into this project?

    And raganius has not only contributed his labor, but also money and time. How do you estimate all that??????
     
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  9. alex-ru

    alex-ru Grizzled Member
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    I don't know really...

    Maybe number of visitors on dashpay.io from Brazil?
    Or maybe number of wallet downloads from there?
    Or number of new Brasilian users on Dashtalk?

    What is your idea? Or do you want to say we don't need to optimise effectiveness of all spendings?
     
  10. moli

    moli Grizzled Member

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    So you're saying raganius 's project is ineffective. If we go by your judging, the whole marketing team has been a failure by looking at the price right now. So much donation has gone in press releases and now the budget is set for the marketing, we don't even know what we're spending on, do we? So if we go by your judging, why should we even bother to spend money on marketing???

    Why picking on another member who's trying to help us all? I do like you, alex, but this is just wrong. I've seen more internal stabbing in this community, and it has to stop. I don't see any attacks from bitcoiners or any other competitors but just the dash people and i do not understand or appreciate this. it's a shame, don't you think?
     
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  11. David

    David Well-known Member
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    I understand where you are coming from, but let me share a story. I used to be one of two assistant managers at a store. The other was an older lady that lived some distance away (across town). Because she was an early riser and because she wanted to avoid rush hour traffic, she would always get to work early and get the store ready to open.

    Nobody else wanted the job of arriving early and opening, but LeAnne did it every day. Nobody asked her to, she just did it. Once, she asked our boss if she could leave a few minutes early since she always comes in early. Our boss said "LeAnne, nobody asked you to come in early. You did that on your own. So no, you may not go home early."

    I've always thought that was pretty lousy. If Raganius went off and did some multithousand dollar promotion expecting to get repaid, I'd feel differently. But he did something good on his own initiative, at relatively small cost, without expecting to get compensated for it. Why shouldn't he have his costs covered? If we discourage this kind of initiative, we could well miss out on some great opportunities.

    I will be voting yes tonight.
     
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  12. alex-ru

    alex-ru Grizzled Member
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    My remarks were not about raganius, tennis or "picking on another member" - but about my opinion how Budgeting System should work in general (effectively!) to attract serious investors.

    But it seems I still can't express complex ideas in English and not offending people personally. :( So I'd better shut up now. :)

    Sorry for any misunderstanding.

    Let MN OPs vote.
     
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  13. qwizzie

    qwizzie Well-known Member

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    Points for consideration :

    * the Aquidabã Tennis Open Campaign was publicly discussed on both the Dashtalk forum and the Bitcointalk forum at the time
    * its a one-time reimbursement of a relative small amount of Dash
    * it could motivate OP to do this kind of marketing again next year (through the budget proposal system at forehand i hope)
    * its time we as community put in a budget proposal and back it up with our votes successfully, i can live with this being that budget proposal for next super-block

    lets just stay calm and analyse each budget proposal rational and vote accordingly.
     
    #13 qwizzie, Sep 18, 2015
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  14. moli

    moli Grizzled Member

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    It's not just now but i saw how you didn't support raganius from the beginning with his project. I do not understand why you don't support him, it's the question you have to answer to yourself. But I respect and admire raganius for sticking out his neck and doing all this amazing work ALONE in Brazil. The least he should have from you is respect, and mental and emotional support as teamwork, if you truly care about this coin. But it's up to you.
     
    #14 moli, Sep 18, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 18, 2015
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  15. alex-ru

    alex-ru Grizzled Member
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    Replied to you personally, so as not to distract people from voting. :)
     
  16. splawik21

    splawik21 Grizzled Member
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    I will definitely vote yes.
    raganius did all this from his pocket when the budgeting was still in deep field. The fruits as always come after a year or years after planting so I keep believing that what you do today will have positive impact in the future.
    This is one time shoot and not big neither.
    raganius you deserve to be reimbursed.
    Cheers and keep the good work rolling on.
     
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  17. fible1

    fible1 Well-known Member

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    I tend to agree with Alex. I think that we are all free to spend money to promote Dash in our home countries or within our social groups or business networks; that doesn't mean we should pay back everyone who has an initiative. Most of Dash effort should remain volunteer from my point of view.

    Again, the cool thing about this is it will be settled via vote, so no need to fight :).

    Pablo.
     
  18. TaoOfSatoshi

    TaoOfSatoshi Grizzled Member
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    Yeas 60, Nays 0 thus far...

    In the future, these initiatives will be voted on in advance, alex-ru, but for this effort which was taken upon well before the DGBB was established, the amount is reasonable.

    The question is, did Dash benefit from this action? In this sense, like moli said, it's hard to quantify. Future spending plans will most definitely have to answer these questions in advance moving forward.
     
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  19. victorbx

    victorbx Active Member

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    The 61st is me !!!
    Very good job raganius !

    this is a great initiative and should be an example of how a man is doing something from his heart !!!

    we need more people who are actually DOING stuff !
     
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  20. buster

    buster Guest

    I think people that make proposals need to have open minds about the kind of responses they will get from other community members. alex-ru makes some very good points and asks some very good questions that not everyone might think of on their own. We also need to remember that this budget system is still very new and for someone to make a proposal takes a lot of courage. Alex now says that he will keep quiet which I don't think is going to help future proposals. We need questions asked, we need to question proposals and people making proposals should have as many answers as they possibly can to help make their case. There two sides to a fence, sometimes people are on top of the fence and need a little nudge.

    I'll be voting yes.
     
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  21. tungfa

    tungfa Administrator
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    I think the key is to take emotions + ego out of these proposals !

    People should not (please) take it personal if a proposal gets approved or not.
    we are still in the very early stages of this, so we as the community + Dev Team + Code still are learning our way around this !
    We should all give it some time, and we will be so much better in it.

    Opinions should be expressed, i agree
    no offence should be taken (easier said than done)

    I am not sure why everybody is casting their vote here in public,
    i will vote too
    but i will not tell you guys how i vote
    as that is between me and my MN's (incl Code)
    ;)
     
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  22. raganius

    raganius cryptoPag.com
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    I am sorry for my late reply, but I was in the middle of a small trip this afternoon :)

    Thank you all for your considerations, and kind words. It is so exciting these voting discussions!

    Thank you, my good friend! I know I can always count on you!


    A perfect opinion as always. Thank you moli. The community needs to support and encourage us members to do our best. And only through fairness and honesty it will be achieved, because each individual will always be very sensible to the most basic notions of justice.


    Thank you, David. This is a great illustation of what I mean when I am referring to justice.


    Very sensible opinion. Thank you, qwizzie.

    Thank you for sharing your point of view. I agree that this is another awesome opportunity for us to learn more about the DASH voting system, it's fairness, and effectivity.

    Well, may I remind us all that this will not have been the first reimbursement budget to be approved by the commmunity: there is already a precedent with the one already approved and paid this month of September.

    (continues)
     
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  23. raganius

    raganius cryptoPag.com
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    (continued)
    Please, my friend, feel free to ask as many questions as you find necessary. That's the purpose of this thread.

    I believe that it's something completely different, the online campaigns, compared to real life campaigns. Each one will be effective towards a completely different public.

    From what I've seen, of the online campaigns, up to now, they have been directed to the so called crypto community, a public that already know and use cryptocurrencies, and now what these online campaigns aim is to bring them to DASH.

    Of course, the new DASH video has come to change this reality, regarding online campaings, as it is correctly directed to what I call the "cryptovirgins". The focus, I believe, is the one most necessary for DASH today. That's my focus with this real life campaign in consideration here.

    It is all about face-to-face contact. I have been able to make people aware of another solution: DASH. It's people who have never heard about anything other than "government money" and visa-like centralised services. And now these people know they can opt out of the fiat-bankers scheme.

    Along with the tennis open campaign, as I have explained already, I have also been to as many merchants as there are within reach, showing them the DASH wallet in operation, clarifying their doubts. And that has been an important part of this campaign. Probably the most important part, actually. The tennis open event environment worked as the base showcase in order to justify my door to door pilgrimage. Also, the Portuguese language contents of the websites (see my signature) are there to provide the necessary substance and further information, obviously needed. Without all these concerted details (a whole package for this campaign) the whole effort would have lacked in effectiveness.

    During this whole period, what I have missed most was a "firm" community support, with only a few "retweets" or "facebook shares", for example. No matter how many photos or links I've published, almost no "likes" or "shares" or "followers" were given from this community (of course, some friends here were - and still are - always so supportive, and I am sure they have done what they could to help me. It is easy to recongise them from all the resulting material produced during this campaign). From my point of view, this DASH community felt apathetic. I confess that at the beginning I have felt very disappointed, because I expected much more support here (maybe this is not much more than an annoying reaction from my part, but I confess that when I decided to start these efforts, I was expecting a similar level of participation from this community, compared to other initiatives. And as a result this perception of apathy from the DASH community weakened my enthusiasm a little).

    The campaign proposition is to "bring DASH into the world of these people". It was not an expensive marketing campaign. Much to the contrary, it was an efficient, non-expensive, face-to-face effort which introduced DASH in a serious and pragmatic manner. Giving DASH a strong initial reputation from the point of view of all the people that we have had contact with.

    It could have been even better, for sure, but it is living and learning. And this has been a rich source of knowledge for the DASH community.

    My opinion is already known here, I believe: DASH must link its image to good initiatives, charities, freedom fighters, privacy awareness, education, SPORTS. And this is exactly the core of what I have been doing.


    mnbudget vote a64c67c6d3cc6588fe8fe3c20c2ac1033296db9bf6eb2e1f1254b4b89bc8d765 yes
    [​IMG]
    "I promise I will not fly away from the country!"​
     
    #23 raganius, Sep 19, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2015
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  24. raganius

    raganius cryptoPag.com
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    Perfect. And, TBH, these discussions are sooooo exciting already! ;)
     
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  25. Minotaur

    Minotaur Well-known Member
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    Great initiative Ivan, I am totally supporting this.
     
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  26. Minotaur

    Minotaur Well-known Member
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    I think a key element of a promotion proposal is being able to secure the funding outside of exchanges, it gives us the opportunity to experiment more. We are finding our way, take this case for example we can refund Ivan for a great initiative where he already spent the FIAT and will be keeping the DASH. That is a sustainable model as opposed to just paying DASH out directly to someone that may ultimately sell the coins.

    Also, it has a great positive effect in team building and community encouragement which are a bit harder to quantify but very important for our long term success.

    Is not going to be the same in every case, as Pablo said, there may be cases in the future where a refund is not justified, but I think Ivan made a compelling case and a great job and I am voting yes on this one.
     
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  27. Solarminer

    Solarminer Well-known Member

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    Raganius,
    Although, the intent moving forward is to get funding approval before a project is started, I still support the effort you put forth. I also want to point out that you clearly defined where the funds were used, the activity, and the intended purpose. This is key for proposals.

    I would also suggest that you post a detailed report about how effective you think this was. Maybe outline specific people you talked with and connections you made. Also point out any changes you would make if you were to do it again. If anything, I bet you are closer to getting the tennis open to accept DASH next time and have them support some advertising.

    My votes are in for a big yes.

    Maybe you can submit a proposal for DASH operated vending machines or something else creative you are thinking about.
     
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  28. Sub-Ether

    Sub-Ether Well-known Member

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    I am sorry you did not feel that you got sufficient community support, we are going to have to try harder next time, even more respect to you for seeing this thru at your own expense, I am happy to vote yes.
    My feelings are that at the start of something completely new like this, there will be a takeup 'drag' factor before it enters into people's consciousness and during that time, the project will be only carried on to the public awareness level by a small number (of highly dedicated individuals), a tricky time that takes a lot of belief.
    You have to create reality from that belief, which is a hard thing to do because it never existed before, setting a precedent is a psychologically tough one, once this has be done, others will follow more easily.

    Only thing about the voting is, if you win the vote, the remaining merchandise effectively exists as a decentralized ownership (another Evan first, I believe), and the masternode holders could be said to own the remaining stock, after all it can't be sold at profit can it, because its already paid for.
    What I suggest is that the remaining stock (if any?) gets sent to someone who is attending the Amsterdam trip, and we can (proudly) wear the hats at Evan's big 50 page whitepaper presentation, is this possible?

    mnbudget vote a64c67c6d3cc6588fe8fe3c20c2ac1033296db9bf6eb2e1f1254b4b89bc8d765 yes
     
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  29. rango

    rango Active Member

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  30. Solarminer

    Solarminer Well-known Member

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    Rango,
    When you view a proposal, it lists your masternodes and how each voted. Love it.
     
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