Bigger blocks = The right path?

Crypter

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Oct 29, 2016
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This is a one hour long discussion about how the path of Bitcoin Cash with bigger blocks is erroneous.

The basic premise is that the hard disk requirements for this type of upgrade will become humongous as the block size grows.

This reasoning applies to Dash correct? Once bigger and bogger blocks come into play the chain will increase exponentially in size leading to gigabytes and eventually terabytes of daily increases.

In addition the lighting network will support 100,000 tx/s but the road map of dah will only support 4,000 tx/s.

Where am I wrong?

 

Naruto

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Dec 26, 2014
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In this moment , rising block size seems a logical one. But if one day there is another alternative which can slove this problem better, I will definitely consider that.


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Naruto#5568
 

Dandy

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Mar 1, 2017
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The approaches are not mutually exclusive. We can raise the block size as needed, but we can work on an alternative solution at the same time.
 
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Vedran Yoweri

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Apr 29, 2015
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in bitcoin cash you the nodes are the bottleneck, they can only hope people wil run high-end servers with Gbit internet connections with a full node for free. (will never happen)
dash has the masternode network, high end full nodes with Gbit internet. dash pays these node operators so they can invest in high quality systems with lots of SSD storage..(already happening)
 
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Dandy

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The fact that we can afford to have 1 GB blocks doesn't mean that we should have them if there is a better solution.
I'm pretty sure the core team is examining all the alternatives.
 
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Antti Kaikkonen

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Lightning network will probably suck with congested layer 1 because opening a channel will be expensive and transactions will still need to be settled in the blockchain every now and then.
I don't know very much about lightning network but I support Dash adopting it after it has been successfully tested in other coins.

Bitcoin can handle like 3 * 60 * 60 * 24 * 360 = 93312000 transactions per year so it would take more than 10 years for 1 billion people to open a lightning channel?
 

camosoul

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Sep 19, 2014
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in bitcoin cash you the nodes are the bottleneck, they can only hope people wil run high-end servers with Gbit internet connections with a full node for free. (will never happen)
dash has the masternode network, high end full nodes with Gbit internet. dash pays these node operators so they can invest in high quality systems with lots of SSD storage..(already happening)
Bingo.

Though, I believe the "drives aren't big enough" argument is still/will become relevant. Incentivization only postpones the inevitable. The data is going to grow faster than it's container. Especially with an SSD requirement. Perpetual blockchain storage will eventually have to yield, at least, to a transparent roll-forward mechanism.

Evolution has a feature set which could enable an automated, transparent roll-forward. Such a thing, combined with other technologies like atomic swaps, etc... Could result in an efficient, rolling ledger. Even a raw rolling ledger... Nobody keeps tax records for 25 years. Why should we keep a blockchain that long? With HD data stored MN-side... DAPI...

Mixing essentially creates a roll-forward already. All that needs done is to fix dead change... Mixing automatically rolls you forward.

This brings into the spotlight another problem.

Duff granularity/fungibility.

In order to pay for this sort of hardware, DASH needs to valuate in the range that BTC does now. This causes a decimal point problem.

We need to divide duffs smaller.

0000000000000000.0000000000000000

because

00000000.00000000 is not enough.
 
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camosoul

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The fact that we can afford to have 1 GB blocks doesn't mean that we should have them if there is a better solution.
I'm pretty sure the core team is examining all the alternatives.
Just because the max block size CAN be 1GB, doesn't mean every block WILL be that big.

Because MNs will be housing the blockchain and all clients will become DAPI-electrum w/ HD data clouded in Evolution... If mixing becomes the only storage method, this come very close to enabling an auto-roll-forward...

If there are no duffs below X block, truncate chain at X block and call X block the new genesis block.

All of this gets a longer time-to-implementation, if ever, due to incentivized nodes.

Paying MNs to run super fancy hardware buys a lot of time for another one-trick-pony coin to come along whose ideas in this realm DASH can augment and assimilate.

The only constant is change. Stay a wake.
 

thephez

Member
Dash Core Team
Jan 23, 2016
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If there are no duffs below X block, truncate chain at X block and call X block the new genesis block.
This only works if coins are frequently in motion and not lost. A single duff that someone lost a private key to would stop that process. Without looking very hard, I found a block from April 2014 (49999) with an unspent output.

Also, it would have to somehow accommodate for someone storing arbitrary data (i.e. funds burned to a bad address, etc.) in the blockchain. People assume the blockchain is immutable so creating a new genesis block would carry with it the necessity of maintaining old data somehow regardless.

Paying MNs to run super fancy hardware buys a lot of time for another one-trick-pony coin to come along whose ideas in this realm DASH can augment and assimilate.

The only constant is change. Stay a wake.
Absolutely! Let's not assume that bigger blocks are the only method of scaling that Dash will have.
 

Vedran Yoweri

Active Member
Apr 29, 2015
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I believe the "drives aren't big enough" argument is still/will become relevant
maybe. maybe not. every mn could have it's own zettabyte storage array if dash price keeps up.
i think we have some time to invent solutions.
 

GrandMasterDash

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Jul 12, 2015
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I have always assumed that big blocks - both dash and bitcoin cash - is a short-to-medium term solution; buying us time to adapt. But, tbh, there's so little info from Core, and such little money in R&D, I just can't tell if Core's budget is value for money or not. The whole secrecy thing, plus all their functions under one umbrella (project development, business development, marketing and legal)... I'm thinking I should switch my vote and defund them until they get their act together.