Addressing the Premine issue for good

BolehVPN

Active Member
Nov 24, 2014
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To me, one of the biggest issues of Dash till this day is the constant mentions that it was a 'premine' scam.

I personally believe that it was just a mistake but it would be good if this problem can be put to rest and I wondering if it was possible to do so.

Dashninja has an excellent FAQ on this wish I believe some research had been done into the issue:

The coin has been well distributed through exchanges since early February 2014 – almost 15-20 days after the coin's launch. One could buy as many cheap DRKs as they wanted, with prices of 0.0000x per DRK or 0.0001x per DRK. This can be verified by historic charts of c-cex.com and poloniex.com of early Feb 2014. These two exchanges were the first that adopted DRK. Huge buy orders of 20-30-50k DRKs were being filled by early miners who were dumping their coins for pennies, not really appreciating the coin they had in their possession due to the “abundant” way in which they mined it as people do not really appreciate what they are given in ample quantity.

Miners who “instamined” large quantities never foresaw the huge price increase and as such sold over a million coins at prices from 0.0000x up to 0.002 – with the first large batch being sold after DRK hit the exchanges and the next large batches being sold from February 2014 to April 2014 @ 0.0015 BTC price levels. In fact, many coin holders were complaining* of all the “dumping” by those who held cheap coins from the start that kept the price at artificially low levels for 2 months straight.

The dumping ended, due to tremendous market demand, when a “pump” was initiated by “whale” buyers that swallowed millions of USD (in DRKs), raising the price from 0.0012 to 0.017 within a few weeks.

[*] During this dumping period there were certain individuals who spread FUD about how the coin will never rise in price due to the instaminers dumping continuously. These are typically the same people who are claiming that the 50% instamine distribution affects the coin distribution today. However it is impossible to simultaneously claim that the coins were being dumped and that the 50% instamine holds true today. It's either one or the other. Since the coins were being dumped, the 50% instamine distribution was gradually reduced with each dumping wave. Blockchain analysis indicates a well distributed coin, reflecting the fact that the dumped coins were evenly distributed through the market. Early distribution is not currently an issue as huge buyers have been reshuffling the "rich-list" in their favor, buying millions of dollars in Darkcoins during May 2014. Late distribution through aggressive buying is currently more of a concern than early distribution.

Could some funds be allocated for deeper analysis and more detailed supporting documentation for this so that although of course trolls will never be satisfied, at least we have good support for the above.

Things that would help:
a) Show how much coins were generated during the difficulty retargeting bug (easy)
b) Show much volume of it was being dumped from February to April 2014 with charts.
c) Explore with c-cex and poloniex that although they may not be able to reveal the identities of the people who dumped, perhaps they can shed some light as to the behaviour of these dumpers in general. This may need some remuneration for them to be interested in doing it.
d) Nice visual illustrations perhaps showing the amount of coins instamined and the amount of DRK dumped over time and also to show 'whale buyers' buying it up showing that these whales were not people who originallly dumped it.

I know many just think that we should just move on from this and I agree, but I think proper resolution is required for the newcomers as Dash should do its best to shake off any stigma from this if possible as there is often the perception that devs control the majority of masternodes.
 

GrandMasterDash

Well-known Member
Masternode Owner/Operator
Jul 12, 2015
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Almost two years on and a substantial amount of development under the bridge. In key areas, dash has adapted and implemented changes where bitcoin is still discussing and dreaming. I would describe bitcoin as "all mouth and no action". The pre-mine argument assumes it is a bad thing... well, if we get these kind of results from a pre-mine, then maybe it was one of the smartest moves.

I don't think anyone here really cares that's much. Dash is aiming for a larger and more diverse audience, and probably most of them won't understand or care, it's only the old-school that are held captive by such things.

If we're going to talk about distribution, then I think it only fair we also discuss the merits or downfalls of the Winklevoss Twins holding 1% of all bitcoins...
 

TheDashGuy

Well-known Member
Dec 16, 2015
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It will die out, it will take forever to die out, but it will die out so don't even worry. It's a great story to keep the price cheap for a while at least... especially since the only ones who still eat this story up are the people obsessed with BTC and only BTC or that were around when all the scams were going down. Most of them aren't very technical so they wouldn't even understand a possible need for a pre-mine setup, nor do they understand finance usually.

Moral of the story, say your piece, but don't sweat it or them. Technology and logic will win out vs paranoia all day.
 

TheDashGuy

Well-known Member
Dec 16, 2015
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All we really have to do is point to that site


It has everything we need in there.....
yea sadly, not everyone reads, or understands. So we'll need to have our ducks in a line for this crapshoot.
 

TroyDASH

Well-known Member
Jul 31, 2015
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Of course people care about the premine. The only people who don't care at all are people who are already invested in DASH. Trolls like to spread FUD which is to be expected, but it would be ill-advised to fail to adequately acknowledge the marketing problem that this presents to people who are otherwise close to using DASH. Bitcoin itself is an example of why an effective premine isn't necessarily a problem, and there is already a lot of information available as some of you mentioned, but it's also not a good idea to dismiss criticism as trolling and not concern ourselves with it. If anything, the documentation and explanation should be improved even further, hosted on the official DASH.org website coming straight from the core members, perhaps along with an entire section dedicated to addressing common FAQ/criticisms.
 

TroyDASH

Well-known Member
Jul 31, 2015
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Only people in the crypto community even care anyway. Once Dash starts to see real-world use, this becomes irrelevant.
I would think almost everybody who starts using DASH is already in the crypto community. Brings on a key question then - right now, is it better to market DASH to the crypto community or to everyone outside crypto? At the moment I am pretty sure 99% of the people buying DASH are already in crypto.
 

TanteStefana

Grizzled Member
Foundation Member
Mar 9, 2014
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I didn't even know that was there!

But like everyone said, it's simply a fact of Dash, likely helped in it's success as well. There has never been a company that wasn't centralized in it's stocks at one point. And yet, they diversify in ownership very quickly. What Dash is to the real world is a service. What these numskulls will never understand is that the world isn't going to give you things of value for free. With the price of Dash so low, there is no excuse not to jump on this band wagon. And if they're so thick they refuse to do so, and in 3 years are even more angry, that's their problem. I promise you, they'll still be there trying to drag it down.

For the first time in my life I feel sorry for Bill Gates.

Now I understand.
 
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tungfa

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Apr 9, 2014
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it will not matter what we post in public, how well the research is done, if we pay somebody or not
the trolls troll as they are trolls !
sorry, but there is no way out of this ! evan was transparent enough here :https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=778616.0
and that is all that should be said to this !

At the mexico conference daniel and others had interesting questions from interested parties, they asked about this as well, and supposedly (i was not there) it was explained and agreed on in no time.
this madness is only on BCT and the heads of the Mon... trolls !
I know they are haunting / chasing you reuben, but do not let it get to you !
;)
 
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MangledBlue

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Jun 28, 2014
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USA
The story has been
over-sold
over-rated
and
under-appreciated

Dynamics
of
Economics

..........................and then??