12.1 Announcement / Finalized Date / Project Update

demo said:
In that case why dont you follow this procedure in order to define a bounty for whoever developer manages to code for Dash something similar to what you have just described?

1) Do you want the masternode software updates to be governed by a blockchain? (yes/no) (in case of a yes result, the 5 dash proposal fee is reimbursed)
2) In case of a yes in the proposal 1, do you agree to pay 50 dash to the one who will code it? (in case of a yes result, the 5 dash proposal fee is reimbursed)
3) In case of a yes in the proposal 2, do you agree to pay another 100 dash to the one who will code it? (in case of a yes result, the 5 dash proposal fee is reimbursed)
4) In case of a yes in the proposal 3, do you agree to pay another 200 dash to the one who will code it? (in case of a yes result, the 5 dash proposal fee is reimbursed)
e.t.c.

With this method, an amount of money will be allocated and given to the people that will finish the job. If nobody is interested to code it, then more money can be allocated, until the motivation is strong enough for the competent developers to start coding it.

If there is a no at the first proposal, this means that the masternodes dont like to decide about the updates, and that they blindly believe and trust to whatever the core team authority does.
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Except that this code governance is just one of several core beliefs in the attributes of a long term stable crypto.. privacy-first is one of the other requirements and I'm currently making enquiring to analyse and uncover MNOs... well, they did vote for transparency-first...
 
GrandMasterDash said:
I have no doubt dash will see success in the short-medium term, but long term, not a chance, it's way too insular.
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Dash is a complex, innovative software product in early stage development. The roadmap for that development cannot be formulated democratically by the potentially thousands of people who own masternodes. That would be a disaster.
 
GrandMasterDash said:
Except that this code governance is just one of several core beliefs in the attributes of a long term stable crypto.. privacy-first is one of the other requirements and I'm currently making enquiring to analyse and uncover MNOs... well, they did vote for transparency-first...
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Ok, your first core belief was denied by the masternodes.

Shouldnt you try to ask the masternodes about your second core belief?
They may accept this second one, and in that case a bounty to the developer who will code it will be defined. And if it is a good bounty then, who knows, maybe a competent developer will decide and code it.

And as long as the code is opensource and everyone can use it or fork it, you will be one step closer to the long term stable crypto.
 
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demo said:
Of course it can be formulated.
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Let's assume for the moment that you are intelligent enough, knowledgeable enough, and wise enough to have good ideas about where Dash should go from here. What about all the other masternode owners? They have a vote too, and they might be swayed by people who are stupid or malevolent.
 
Geert said:
Let's assume for the moment that you are intelligent enough, knowledgeable enough, and wise enough to have good ideas about where Dash should go from here. What about all the other masternode owners? They have a vote too, and they might be swayed by people who are stupid or malevolent.
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The masternodes cannot be more than 10000 and the people who operate the masternodes may be even less than 10000.

I doubt if there are more than 535 operators of masternodes currently.
535 operate the US congress, and the roadmap of the US is much more complicated than Dash.

If the masternodes operators are all stupids or malevolent and they dont know what their interest is, you should not have created the budget system in the very first place.
 
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Geert said:
Dash is a complex, innovative software product in early stage development. The roadmap for that development cannot be formulated democratically by the potentially thousands of people who own masternodes. That would be a disaster.
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True. And I'm not just knocking dash, there is yet to be a crypto with all the essential qualities... but we are seeing individual cryptos emerge that are embracing such things.. dash for issuing grants, monero for privacy, tezos for the governance, synereo (and others) for formal verification.. and so on. Will dash embrace such ideas? - not impossible but based on previous experience, very unlikely. Is it technically possible that a single crypto can cover all these key bases? - yes, I believe so.
 
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Geert said:
No Improvement in Congress Approval, at 13%

http://www.gallup.com/poll/189848/no-improvement-congress-approval.aspx

I rest my case :)
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Anyway, what I wanted to say is that the masternodes should start mimic the parliement, they should vote laws, and the core team and the developers should respect these laws when they do their updates. And in case their code is against the laws then they should be judged by an independant Dash jury and they should pay dash as a penalty. The more severe the crime is, the more the dash paid.

This is how the roadmap of a community can be formulated democratically, and this is how the software updates can be controlled.
 
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GrandMasterDash said:
True. And I'm not just knocking dash, there is yet to be a crypto with all the essential qualities... but we are seeing individual cryptos emerge that are embracing such things.. dash for issuing grants, monero for privacy, trezos for the governance, synereo (and others) for formal verification.. and so on. Will dash embrace such ideas? - not impossible but based on previous experience, very unlikely. Is it technically possible that a single crypto can cover all these key bases? - yes, I believe so.
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So you think that the code is already written, and the only thing needed is someone to start puting all of it together? In that case why dont you ask the masternodes if they want someone to do this assemblage. And if the masternodes desire the assemblage, then a bounty can be defined in order to incentivize potential developers.

I dont think that the code is already written. So someone has to ask the masternodes for each one core value separately. In order to get the masternodes' initial approval and then start the negotiations about the bounty given to the one who will succesfully code the core value.

You asked the masternodes about privacy, and the masternodes deny it. But this is not the end of the world. Au contraire, asking the maternodes about their core values is only the beginning of the journey. Someone has to ask the masternodes for other values as well. Someone may also ask the masternods about privacy, once again. Asking the masternodes, and asking them again, this is the road.
 
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Of course, even without Distributed Ledger Technologies, dash could of drawn up a legally binding pledge to it's end-users regarding voting rights and core functions. For example, can end-users have confidence that rollbacks won't occur (like Ethereum)? Core are quick to hire lawyers when it comes to fiat gateways but commitments to the end-users? - oh I see, one rule for them, another for us.

If dash used the blockchain to govern sources and binaries, they wouldn't have to hire lawyers.. isn't that the essence of smart contracts, disintermediation? - haha, only when it suits The New Geek Bankers!
 
Here is a fact made clear by Evan himself; a small elite group of people (of which Evan belongs), effectively hold the master switch to stop payments to all MNs.

Given the above fact, none of you seem to be bothered by it. You should be.

More so, while I am trying to raise this concern, a bunch of you - the same group of people - are busy marking this fact as trolling. One has to question the validity of this forum and dash as a whole when, instead of discussing the implications of a payment master switch, that certain members would choose to mark such concerns as trolling.
 
GrandMasterDash said:
Here is a fact made clear by Evan himself; a small elite group of people (of which Evan belongs), effectively hold the master switch to stop payments to all MNs.

Given the above fact, none of you seem to be bothered by it. You should be.

More so, while I am trying to raise this concern, a bunch of you - the same group of people - are busy marking this fact as trolling. One has to question the validity of this forum and dash as a whole when, instead of discussing the implications of a payment master switch, that certain members would choose to mark such concerns as trolling.
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It's also completely unrelated to the OP. If you want to talk about sporks and the pros and cons of having the masternode payment enforcement spork, then create a separate thread, and do it without attacking people's integrity if you don't want to be marked as trolling.
 
TroyDASH said:
It's also completely unrelated to the OP. If you want to talk about sporks and the pros and cons of having the masternode payment enforcement spork, then create a separate thread, and do it without attacking people's integrity if you don't want to be marked as trolling.
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The OP said...

"Enforcement will be turned off for this network upgrade, meaning nodes running the old version of the Dash software (12.0) will quickly stop being paid (contingent on miners upgrading)."​

...how can that be off topic???
 
Bloody hell, what are you lot smoking to think that a handful of people can switch off MN payments and then when someone challenges it you say it's off topic! Change the word "Evan" to "banker" and you'd be saying something completely different. You're crazy, totally crazy.
 
TroyDASH said:
It's also completely unrelated to the OP. If you want to talk about sporks and the pros and cons of having the masternode payment enforcement spork, then create a separate thread, and do it without attacking people's integrity if you don't want to be marked as trolling.
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Maybe you should read more carefully, I had stated one simple fact, "a small elite group of people (of which Evan belongs), effectively hold the master switch to stop payments to all MNs". To stay on topic, your response should be to disprove that fact, not to say it's off-topic when you know damn well (or should know) that the OP said they were switching payments off.
 
GrandMasterDash said:
Maybe you should read more carefully, I had stated one simple fact, "a small elite group of people (of which Evan belongs), effectively hold the master switch to stop payments to all MNs". To stay on topic, your response should be to disprove that fact, not to say it's off-topic when you know damn well (or should know) that the OP said they were switching payments off.
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There's nothing to disprove. It is already well known that we have certain sporks, and they have been discussed from time to time. MN payment enforcement is a spork, and it gets turned off when there is an upgrade, in order to make the upgrade transitions faster and less risky. You might want to review this interview: https://www.dash.org/news/softhard-forks-vs-sporks-evan-duffield-explains-how-dash-is-different/
 
TroyDASH said:
There's nothing to disprove. It is already well known that we have certain sporks, and they have been discussed from time to time. MN payment enforcement is a spork, and it gets turned off when there is an upgrade, in order to make the upgrade transitions faster and less risky. You might want to review this interview: https://www.dash.org/news/softhard-forks-vs-sporks-evan-duffield-explains-how-dash-is-different/
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There's nothing wrong with your technical description, but my challenge is that the OP will initiate said processes in a fashion that is counter to dash's aim i.e. to be decentralised. As one of the elitists, The New Geek Banker (Evan) has taken it upon himself to try and stop payments to MNs. In this instance, such action might be approved by the majority of MNOs, but how can we be sure? We have a governance mechanism for such purposes yet his actions are more like those of a dictator.

All you MNOs, you should be ashamed of yourselves. You get your 45% share of the reward yet you do not fight to take more control of your destiny.
 
GrandMasterDash said:
There's nothing wrong with your technical description, but my challenge is that the OP will initiate said processes in a fashion that is counter to dash's aim i.e. to be decentralised. As one of the elitists, The New Geek Banker (Evan) has taken it upon himself to try and stop payments to MNs. In this instance, such action might be approved by the majority of MNOs, but how can we be sure? We have a governance mechanism for such purposes yet his actions are more like those of a dictator.

All you MNOs, you should be ashamed of yourselves. You get your 45% share of the reward yet you do not fight to take more control of your destiny.
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In theory, I agree and would rather that sporks be handled in a decentralized way, but the implementation of that, securely, and to do it in such a way as to still retain the full benefit of having the spork in the first place, is *not* trivial. Right now this is the best we have, and the fact that no one other than you (and maybe demo) are voicing an opinion that this issue needs to be addressed as an emergency, indicates to me that the overwhelming majority of MNs are okay with this. We are well aware that right now the network does have a benevolent dictator aspect to it with respect to the sporks, and that this is arguably the most centralized part of Dash.

You might get fewer troll marks if you stop referring to Evan as The New Geek Banker, or the core team as "the elite", or saying things like that MNOs should be ashamed of themselves. These things add zero value to the substance of your arguments, and your continued efforts to attack other people's integrity makes it seem like you have an agenda to cause disruption.
 
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