Reduction in proposal fee to 1 Dash (Pre-Proposal)

[GrandMasterDash]

We are hopefully about to lower the proposal cost from ~$500 to ~$100. If you want your proposal translated, hire a translator.

No, no, no. Re-think what you're saying here. Dash is Digital Cash, that means it absolutely must be inclusive and incentivise people globally. If it doesn't, then you automatically exclude more than a billion Chinese speaking people, they'll end up doing their own thing in their own language, and maybe they would be inclusive where dash isn't. Dash is also meant to be "easy to use", therefore not tackling language barriers would be a serious and costly mistake.

I'm not suggesting we cover every language, but there are probably five or six languages that can't be excluded. Of the top of my head I would say, Mandarin, English, Spanish, Russian, French, and Arabic.

The submitter would also feel they are at least getting something for their hard earned money, instead of the dash getting wastefully burned. Let's not forget, dash is very much in the service industry. Good customer facing support, not just to end-users but a pain-free experience for submitters too.

 

[lynx]

@GrandMasterDash
The end user never needs to know anything about the DDGB. You don't need to know how a company runs to use their product, you use it because it works.
Dash's whitepapers, tutorials, faqs, how-tos, advertisements, wallets, costumer support, etc should be available in every language, proposals don't need to be. And if any proposal submiter thinks it should, they are welcome to provide the translation.

 

[GrandMasterDash]

@GrandMasterDash
The end user never needs to know anything about the DDGB. You don't need to know how a company runs to use their product, you use it because it works.
Dash's whitepapers, tutorials, faqs, how-tos, advertisements, wallets, costumer support, etc should be available in every language, proposals don't need to be. And if any proposal submiter thinks it should, they are welcome to provide the translation.

How does a native Chinese person make their proposal if there is language imblance among MNOs? He must assume the language of dash is English? How do they get the approval of Russian speaking MNOs? Are you going to be happy when the day comes that a lot of proposals are being successfully passed when they are only written in Mandarin? - I think not.

 

[Gi01]

Extremely in favor of reducing the fee to 1 dash. I am extremely convinced that we are missing some opportunities here, cause people are not happy to submit a proposal where they have to burn 500$ in advance; also, the "risk" to make a proposal if the required amount is lower then 5000$ ( make it 50 dash) is probably pushing out all the people that might create a low cost, but useful, proposal cause the risk of failure destroys the gain that the proposer is expecting.

Regarding the language, i am not english native. I am here as an informed investor, to use my votes, and english is the international common language. If a chinese speaker owns nodes, believe me, he has the chance to translate a proposal (if he's interested in).

 

[lynx]

How does a native Chinese person make their proposal if there is language imblance among MNOs? He must assume the language of dash is English? How do they get the approval of Russian speaking MNOs? Are you going to be happy when the day comes that a lot of proposals are being successfully passed when they are only written in Mandarin? - I think not.

Ok, then. Convince me there is a significant demand for it. Ask around in the international section and get MN badge-wearing forum users to post something like "I don't understand English and need proposals translated" in a dedicated thread.

 

[camosoul]

I stand by the position that putting the lunatics in charge of the asylum is a bad idea that will have bad results.

I would vote against the change. Even 5 DASH is too low.

It's just going to flood the MNOs with a new batch of couchlocked dreamers and ideas with no know-how, backing, or substance.

Remember the ATMs to undermine the very point of DASH? Remember the PR to promote vaporware? How much was wasted on silly pork scams that any grown-up with the slightest business experience would have shot down?

I was right about this last time. I'm right about it this time. But if the MNOs want to throw away money on multi-million dollar fiascos that leave egg on their face, again, still, who am I to argue... It's all free money again next month...

The world sees you as a bunch of spoiled, inexperienced brats. The more you make fools of yourselves, the harder it is to convince grown-ups to take you seriously.

The only feedback that exists in the budget system is that of making a fool of yourselves by doing dumb shit and getting laughed at. But you're too damned arrogant and childish to accept the feedback, and keep on assing up... This is actually worse for adoption than IX still being broken. You need to grow the fuck up, snowflakes.

 

[camosoul]

I voted "yes" because I think $500 (as of current USD prices) is too much for one person. But I also think proposals should be a community thing. If we had a pool like I suggested above then $500 USD would be a good anti-spam price for a community of like minded folks to come up with...

I can afford it just fine. I pay more than that just to boost morale on underappreciated projects that my name isn't even on, and which I have no control over...

Show me someone willing to fix IX, or even admit that it has a problem,and I'll cover the cost of that proposal submission with contingency that it be reimbursed upon successful vote. There. 0 DASH for that one. Happy?

 

[TroyDASH]

The world sees you as a bunch of spoiled, inexperienced brats. The more you make fools of yourselves, the harder it is to convince grown-ups to take you seriously.

The world does, or you do?
To be fair, regardless of whether the proposal fee is 1 or 5, it is the same masternodes who are voting. The value of the fee isn't what causes bad proposals to get funded, it only influences how many get proposed. If masternodes get better at vetting proposals then the fee is less of an issue.

 

[GrandMasterDash]

Ok, then. Convince me there is a significant demand for it. Ask around in the international section and get MN badge-wearing forum users to post something like "I don't understand English and need proposals translated" in a dedicated thread.

Dash was originally produced by an English speaker to a largely English speaking community. The question is not what languages MNOs currently understand, it's about significant lost opportunity from non-English speaking participants (proposers). Here's a new link that might give you some hope for English:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/266808/the-most-spoken-languages-worldwide/

It says that 1.5B people speak English (only 375M natively). But then world population is currently 7.5B.. that's just one in five people. Mandarin comes in at 1.1B. What percentage of Chinese people also speak English? - it's growing but it's still a small number:

https://www.quora.com/How-many-languages-would-I-need-to-know-to-speak-to-half-of-the-world?share=1

At best, one in three people might possibly speak English and Mandarin. But don't confuse that with reading because written Chinese is relatively universal whereas Mandarin dialects vary enormously. Let's just assume that one in three people can read both English and Mandarin (optimistic), then it's safe to say dash could significantly grow it's market cap if it was more internationalised.

I'm pretty sure a lot of MNOs would feel alienated if two in three proposals were appearing in Mandarin only. Ultimately, dash must consider itself, not just "digital cash" but digital cash for the entire world.

 

[TroyDASH]

Dash was originally produced by an English speaker to a largely English speaking community. The question is not what languages MNOs currently understand, it's about significant lost opportunity from non-English speaking participants (proposers). Here's a new link that might give you some hope for English:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/266808/the-most-spoken-languages-worldwide/

It says that 1.5B people speak English (only 375M natively). But then world population is currently 7.5B.. that's just one in five people. Mandarin comes in at 1.1B. What percentage of Chinese people also speak English? - it's growing but it's still a small number:

https://www.quora.com/How-many-languages-would-I-need-to-know-to-speak-to-half-of-the-world?share=1

At best, one in three people might possibly speak English and Mandarin. But don't confuse that with reading because written Chinese is relatively universal whereas Mandarin dialects vary enormously. Let's just assume that one in three people can read both English and Mandarin (optimistic), then it's safe to say dash could significantly grow it's market cap if it was more internationalised.

I'm pretty sure a lot of MNOs would feel alienated if two in three proposals were appearing in Mandarin only. Ultimately, dash must consider itself, not just "digital cash" but digital cash for the entire world.

We're getting a little off topic but what do you think should be done about it? We do have some translators already doing things for the core team and Dash Detailed. Do we need a proposal to fund translations of budget proposals?

 

[GrandMasterDash]

We're getting a little off topic but what do you think should be done about it? We do have some translators already doing things for the core team and Dash Detailed. Do we need a proposal to fund translations of budget proposals?

Tbh, I don't think it's that off topic. What I'm suggesting is, the money used to submit a proposal can pay for translation work instead of merely being burned. It seems to me that would be beneficial to proposers, MNOs and the dash ecosystem in general. At the very least, the person submitting the proposal would feel they are getting something in return from their X amount of dash (maximising that they'll be understood)

 

[demo]

We're getting a little off topic but what do you think should be done about it? We do have some translators already doing things for the core team and Dash Detailed. Do we need a proposal to fund translations of budget proposals?

Yes you do. The budget proposals are by far more important than the Dash Detailed.
The Proposals is the hope and the future of Dash, while the Dash Detailed and the rest advertising things are ephemeral and evanescent.

 

[GrandMasterDash]

If we doubled the number of proposals we were receiving simply because half of them were coming from China, that could quite possibly lead to a doubling of the market cap. Is that not an attractive proposition?

 

[TroyDASH]

Tbh, I don't think it's that off topic. What I'm suggesting is, the money used to submit a proposal can pay for translation work instead of merely being burned. It seems to me that would be beneficial to proposers, MNOs and the dash ecosystem in general. At the very least, the person submitting the proposal would feel they are getting something in return from their X amount of dash (maximising that they'll be understood)

Idk about having the proposal fees go towards it, but a separate proposal just to fund translation work for proposals might turn out to be beneficial to the network. Yes, I hear the objection that a proposal owner should do this on their own if they want to have a better chance at passing, but I would counter that with the fact that having the proposals be in only English seems to have worked for all successful proposals so far. Translation work isn't so much for the benefit of the individual proposals, as it is to help onboard other countries get actively involved. I am sure that reading through all the proposals on dashcentral would be way more exciting for people if they could read proposals in their native language, and it would also encourage non-English speakers to believe that they will be able to contribute. If someone reputable wanted to put in a proposal to organize this sort of thing at a reasonable rate, I'd probably vote for it.

 

[demo]

If we doubled the number of proposals we were receiving simply because half of them were coming from China, that could quite possibly lead to a doubling of the market cap. Is that not an attractive proposition?

Additionaly people who may have nice ideas but are not native english speakers, they are encouraged to post their proposals in their native language where they can express themselves better.

 

[GrandMasterDash]

Idk about having the proposal fees go towards it, but a separate proposal just to fund translation work for proposals might turn out to be beneficial to the network. Yes, I hear the objection that a proposal owner should do this on their own if they want to have a better chance at passing, but I would counter that with the fact that having the proposals be in only English seems to have worked for all successful proposals so far. Translation work isn't so much for the benefit of the individual proposals, as it is to help onboard other countries get actively involved. I am sure that reading through all the proposals on dashcentral would be way more exciting for people if they could read proposals in their native language, and it would also encourage non-English speakers to believe that they will be able to contribute. If someone reputable wanted to put in a proposal to organize this sort of thing at a reasonable rate, I'd probably vote for it.

I would say, the reason English has worked so far is simply because we're in our own little English bubble. I'm not convinced a translation proposal needs to be made, I suspect it can be funded from the actual proposal fee, which is currently burned.

 

[TroyDASH]

I would say, the reason English has worked so far is simply because we're in our own little English bubble. I'm not convinced a translation proposal needs to be made, I suspect it can be funded from the actual proposal fee, which is currently burned.

The proposal fee would probably be a sufficient amount to pay for it, but how to control who actually receives the payout? To me it sounds more conducive to just do a separate proposal, and no re-working of code needed to accomplish it.

 

[demo]

I would say, the reason English has worked so far is simply because we're in our own little English bubble. I'm not convinced a translation proposal needs to be made, I suspect it can be funded from the actual proposal fee, which is currently burned.

In that case only failed proposals will be translated. And what about the accepted proposals?They will remain un-translated?

The important thing is to translate a proposal before it passes or fails! If you translate it after it fails, it is too late.

 

[GrandMasterDash]

The proposal fee would probably be a sufficient amount to pay for it, but how to control who actually receives the payout? To me it sounds more conducive to just do a separate proposal, and no re-working of code needed to accomplish it.

Don't we already have an outreach programme that can get paid for doing it? The dash would go to whoever manages that I guess.

 

[GrandMasterDash]

In that case only failed proposals will be translated. And what about the accepted proposals?They will remain un-translated?

The important thing is to translate a proposal before it passes or fails! If you translate it after it fails, it is too late.

No no, the proposer pays their five dash, submits their proposal and the five dash immediately goes to whoever manages the outreach programme (not after).