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Pre-Proposal - Visual Identity

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kot said:
I would really encourage you to present three logos to your families and friends (especially to those, who know nothing about crypto) and ask for an opinion, without providing too much of context or emotional background.
I think you might be surprised as I was surprised, when made this exercise.
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@kot that's a great idea, but it's a real shame that we are here needing to rely on anecdotal evidence instead of a serious field study. The O&M research simply did not compare the current logo or the T&C logo with theirs. They compared theirs with a blue-and-pink gradient version of dash's current logo. Right now I would pay anything to have a study done comparing our actual options, and I think it's unfortunate that this vote is being presented to the MNOs without this essential information.
 
Hi @kot

Your opinions are extremely valued and I always rate your contributions. I have to just challenge you on this particular point.

Our families are not the appropriate reference point here in my opinion. We are.

These are new markets and we shouldn't be having recourse to people's prejudices to gauge what works in the future. We should not be looking to them for guidance since this is crypto, people are looking to US for guidance.

Dash has no option but to chart its own course and that applies to every aspect of the project from top to bottom because that's the only way that we will appeal - on our own grounds which is something that commercial markets are always looking for.

The Ogilvy and Mather brand book says they their design is "bold". But in fact the "boldest" design in reality is the one that the community solicited, generated, that facilitated its growth and to which it relates. We can always have professionals improve it but institutionalised designs are not "bold", they're just one guy's idea of what's bold while they're at home over a glass of wine.

This community is battle hardened and so is that logo. We do not want to lose it.

We don't mind adjusting it.
 
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TheBigCat said:
I hate to bring up basic psychological tendencies here, but I believe it is very important to consider before jumping to conclusions. Please read this: https://www.jeremysaid.com/blog/customers-will-choose-middle-offer/
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I was confused at first what you meant by that link, since you say you prefer the T&C logo and that article seems to point out why it's silly to think that way. But I see now that by "middle" you mean the positioning order in a survey.

At first, I thought you meant most people prefer the "middle" option, as in:

1. The original/current logo is the baseline choice.
2. The T&C logo is a "slight refresh" median choice.
3. The O&M logo is the "radically different" extreme choice.

Therefore, the middle choice is the T&C logo, which people are saying they prefer - it's "enough similar to what we have" but "different enough of a change" so as the article you linked explains, that's why many of us are seeming to prefer it...

Psychology at work here?? lol
 
@TheBigCat - yes, present it in any order/way you want. I have done it one after another, not presented three at the same time

@TroyDASH - there was no other options at that time. T&C logo proposal did not even exist, so they are providing accurate data. To be clear - I am not saying which proposal is better to me. I will keep it to myself.

@toknormal - people like our families and friends are critical in this exercise. We are geeks and nerds, who are emotionally attached to the project, brand and mission. However our goal is to convince average person to use Dash, we don't have to be convinced. Branding creates a very first impression and this first impression is really important, therefore I have asked you to test it with people outside of the crypto space
 
kot said:
@TheBigCat - yes, present it in any order/way you want. I have done it one after another, not presented three at the same time

@TroyDASH - there was no other options at that time. T&C logo proposal did not even exist, so they are providing accurate data. To be clear - I am not saying which proposal is better to me. I will keep it to myself.

@toknormal - people like our families and friends are critical in this exercise. We are geeks and nerds, who are emotionally attached to the project, brand and mission. However our goal is to convince average person to use Dash, we don't have to be convinced. Branding creates a very first impression and this first impression is really important, therefore I have asked you to test it with people outside of the crypto space
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@kot The O&M study was fine for their own internal purpose in deciding which logo *they* were going to propose, but it does not help us with the decision *we* are making right now. It is being presented as if it is relevant, but it isn't. This would have been so much easier to decide if there was a third party not affiliated with either side, to conduct a study between O&M, T&C, and the current logo, including questions that are relevant to both O&M and T&C's key goals. I don't know which one you favor yourself, but if you favor the O&M one, I think the failure to go out and do this might be the reason it doesn't get voted in.
 
@kot The logo isn't what will convince the average person to use Dash. IMO you are mixing up two distinct but important aspects of the evolution of the project. I will list what I think the reasons are in each case in order of their importance:

1. Why will people use Dash ?

• deflationary asset seekers (Store of value people will use it, traders less so)
• hedging performance in the cryptocurrency space (Bitcoin/Precious metal holders will use it to hedge their risks)
• commercial trading performance (bartering partners will use Dash for immediate exchange)

2. How will a logo provide value to Dash ?

• future investors will value its continuity as a measure of the asset's stability (since its "community backed")
• commercial vendors will use it it as a point of recognition
• the community will use it as a symbol of identity

None of these justify an arbitrary ditching of the commercial identity and nobody can judge objectively "what works" because in times of change what works is what's confident. Remember the Sex Pistols ? They could barely play guitar but became a brand. English bands used to sing with American accents to get airplay, then one day some of them started singing in London accents and became legends.

The only consistency in all of this is the confidence of the community in what symbolically represents them.

It has to work for them, not their families and not wine swilling graphic artists.
 
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@TroyDASH I partially agree with you and partially not. My afraid is that by the time when the survey for us with 3 logos would be finished, we would have 10 new propositions and endless loop started.
I think that we will never be able to satisfy everyone, as different people have different tastes, sensitivity and preferences. Therefore I fully rely on decision of MN network - I trust they will ultimately select what is the best for the project.

@toknormal - I think you have misinterpreted what I wrote. Logo is not going to convince anyone. I have mentioned about the first impression only.
 
Kot is not suggesting the views of your family and friends is scientific. He is simply presenting an exercise that will, in all likelihood, challenge your own preconceived ideas of what looks good and bad. Hopefully, if MNOs do this, they can then concentrate on what's best for the network rather than hanging on to nostalgia.

Also, there's no need to get hung up on color schemes and gradients. For example, I have distributed many dash t-shirts, some of which are blue on orange - and it looks great! - but where does it say we must use orange? There's nothing wrong with the monochrome version of O&M, nor is there anything wrong with people putting their own stamp on it; "official" colors or something completely different. Just don't get caught up in the detail.
 
kot said:
@toknormal - I think you have misinterpreted what I wrote. Logo is not going to convince anyone. I have mentioned about the first impression only.
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Ok, @kot I appreciate you are concerned about first impressions. That is partly your job in which you have a professional role that I respect.

However, first impressions are meaningless when it come to logos because they can symbolise whatever people see in them which has more to do with the integrity of the project and community than their "first impressions". So we have 2 choices:

• be guided by the current prejudices of our future market
• be guided by what we know and have worked with so far

In my opinion the second of these two options is far more powerful because when cryptocurrency hits mainstream, people will want to be lead. They won't want to be asked their opinion on anything. They'll want confident guidance that TELLS them what to do rather than nervous, uncertain communities that are unsure of their identity and have to ask their families what their logo should be.

Like I said, we don't have a choice. Our project is what it is. The community is what it is. We already solicitated a brand identity, accepted it, worked with it and achieved many successes with it. We need to consolidate that identity, not ditch it.

Substantial rebranding is a denial that all that happened and will be priced in as such by future markets.
 
I want to keep the Dash "D" as a logo no matter what. It's a D with a dash in it and works perfectly on many levels. I think we should use the O&M logo as well depending on the situation. For most things you can use them both at the same time like in my photo.
I also like our current font as it is tilted slightly forward making yet another play on Dash moving forward. It may need more of a forward tilt with slightly thinner font and some color variation but I think it is fine for now. Looks like both the current props will fail so we need to decide on a basic design, vote, and move on. Let it be a living logo worked on in the background by interested parties with periodic community updates.

VQMcgO2.png
 
I think we need to be careful in selling our soul in order to gain acceptance. Would you agree to remove privatesend if it led to greater adoption? Allow a means for the government to have a element of control because it would make people feel safer?
 
Kanuuker said:
I think we need to be careful in selling our soul in order to gain acceptance. Would you agree to remove privatesend if it led to greater adoption? Allow a means for the government to have a element of control because it would make people feel safer?
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If it was held to vote and won, would you go against it?
 
Kanuuker said:
I would walk away from Dash in a heartbeat if privatesend was removed or if a government access point was created, yes. I won't abandon ship over a logo change though.
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That's fine, a lot of people would. But you was trying to relate a governance decision to "selling our soul", and the next minute you said you wouldn't abandon ship over a logo.. so I'm confused to what you was actually referring to.
 
GrandMasterDash said:
That's fine, a lot of people would. But you was trying to relate a governance decision to "selling our soul", and the next minute you said you wouldn't abandon ship over a logo.. so I'm confused to what you was actually referring to.
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No, I just said we need to be careful in giving up to much to gain market share.
 
I did the asking thing, and this is what I got:

Female female male male
O&M T&C O&M T&C
2 3 0 3

I still haven't voted. This is getting pretty heated :( Anyway, that's what I got so far :) I gave them two pictures with the different options I put into a single picture, and said it was for a money service that would be similar to Paypal and Mastercard, which one feels right to you for such a company? I did not explain the philosophy behind the submissions.

These were emails I sent out, and responses I got back.
 
We must continue innovating to obtain better results. Thus, the brand is renewed and also adapts to modern design trends. But yes, I support Damian, we must preserve the essence of the logo.
 
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