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Pre-Proposal Vaultoro to implement DASH

Would you support this proposal?

  • YES

    Votes: 7 87.5%
  • NO

    Votes: 1 12.5%

  • Total voters
  • Poll closed .
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Hi @MoKa, my name is Victor, part of Dash Maracaibo team in Venezuela, i just read about your pre-proposal, seems good to me but what do you exactly mean with "gold"? i mean, literally gold or what? excuse me if i am wrong or something.

Hi @MoKa, my name is Victor, part of Dash Maracaibo team in Venezuela, i just read about your pre-proposal, seems good to me but what do you exactly mean with "gold"? i mean, literally gold or what? excuse me if i am wrong or something.


hi there @chuka , glad you asked!

It's literally gold! allocated to the user in a top-tier vaulting facility in Switzerland.

for further details please have a look at this link:

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The more I think about it, the more I think this is a bit of a swizz.

How much return would, say, $100,000 of dash give you? (masternode or masternode shares). I am going to suggest that the return would more than enough cover trading fees and storage fees. But instead, Joshua would have us believe, it's a good deal to hand over our dash in return for virtual gold. That is to say, your dash (now his) is the counter to the gold you now "own". So, while you're holding "gold", what is Joshua doing with his newly acquired dash? Seems to me, he could well be running masternodes (or masternode shares) and covering my trading fees and storage fees... I mean, why not??? But no no, he wants you to pay trading fees and storage fees, while raking in dash rewards. Nice one Josh.

Now dear Joshua tells us about his radical transparency and the independent auditors.. yep, he could do that with the dash he acquires and puts to use in those masternodes / masternode shares.

Totally voting NO.
From Vaultoro's terms of use page, I assume this also applies to dash:

"If your Bitcoin balance on Vaultoro does not change in 6 years then Vaultoro will try to contact you with the last known email address, phone number and/ or postal address. If we can not get in contact with you or someone representing your estate then Vaultoro reserves the right to cease treating your Bitcoin holdings as client assets and the assets will be taken over by Vaultoro."
Vaultoro's terms of service says 90% of their bitcoin is held in cold storage. I have no reason to believe dash will be any different.

From Vaultoro's transparency page, I can see they hold more than 473 bitcoin. Therefore, at least 425 bitcoins are held in cold storage. If the value of their dash holding ever matched bitcoin, they'd have more than 9,500 dash.

Of course, initially, their dash holdings would be much smaller, but given their 90% cold storage arrangements, it is easy to imagine them running a masternode or two; there is no logical explanation why they should not do so.

Vaultoro holding dash is to their advantage over bitcoin as bitcoin only gives rewards to miners, whereas dash shares it's rewards with masternode owners. How will said rewards be used? - a profit incentive over bitcoin, yet no added value to dash users? Will dash users get lower transaction costs or lower storage costs (or free)? Given that dash users are effectively crowd-funding masternodes for Vaultoro, should they receive benefits over bitcoin transactions?

If Vaultoro does not have enough dash to run a masternode, they can make arrangements with a masternode shares provider. Such scenario is possible, much the same as Vaultoro operate their gold through bailments (see terms of service). Thus it seems inevitable that Vaultoro can secure additional income through dash rewards, regardless of whether they have 1000 dash or not.
Real world calculation:

1. Investor hands over $100,000 to Vaultoro.

2. As per terms of service, Vaultoro puts 90% into cold storage; $90,000 = 281 dash

3. As quoted by Vaultoro, this purchase of gold will cost the user $385:

0.5% trading fees for the first 500g ~ $105
0.4% trading fees for the next kg ~ $167
0.3% for the remaining 900g ~ $113​

4. Storage fees for one year is going to cost 0.4%; $400 = 1.25 dash

$100,000 x 0.004​

5. For the user, total expenses for the first year is $785

$385 trading fee + $400 storage = 2.45 dash​

6. For the user, total expenses for 5 years (excluding final exchange charges) is $2385

$785 + (4 x $400)​

Meanwhile, Vaultoro uses his cold storage dash to earn rewards:

7. A masternode currently has an estimated payment of $61.69 per day.

8. A masternode currently has an estimated annual payment of $22,516.85

$61.69 x 365 = $22,516.85 (70.42 dash)​

9. The investor has given 281 dash to Vaultoro (see point 2). Therefore, Vaultoro's cold storage (masternodes or masternode shares) is earning them $6327.23 every year.

$22,516.85 * 0.281​

10. Based on this single user investment, Vaultoro's profit for the first year will be $7112.23

$6327.23 + $785 (see points 5 and 9)​

11. Based on this single user investment, Vaultoro's profit for 5 years will be $32,421.15

$6327.23 * 5 + $785​

12. Vaultoro masternode income from user investment overshadows the user's trading fees and storage fees:

$6327.23 (see point 9) compared to $785 (see point 5)​

One can argue, regardless of which side of the trade the user is on, they are swapping the volatility of dash with the stability of gold. It's their choice and I do not argue with this.

However, based on the numbers above, it seems to me, this is a very profitable venture for Vautoro with little downside. Surely such profitable venture should be funded from their own pocket. They cannot, after all, make such profits by exchanging bitcoin for gold.
Looks like Ethereum is on their radar, a seven digit investment by FinLab:

"Das Investment von FinLab nutzt Vaultoro für den Ausbau seiner Produkte zu Multi-Asset-Plattformen. Weitere Edelmetalle wie Silber, Platin und Palladium sowie (Krypto-)Währungen wie Bitcoin oder Ethereum sollen über alle Produkte hinweg integriert werden."​


"FinLab's investment leverages Vaultoro to grow its products into multi-asset platforms. Other precious metals such as silver, platinum and palladium as well as (crypto) currencies such as Bitcoin or Ethereum should be integrated across all products."
In return, what does FinLab get from Vaultoro? They made the deal with no timeline?
Dash is currently being implemented. Conditions stay the same. We were hit by the bear market as everyone else and instead of asking for additional funding we financed it by ourselves.

I'll break down the costs for you tomorrow as soon as I am in office.

Happy new year to you.
Vaultoro DASH Expenses.png

In case you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask. I'll try to answer them the best I can.
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€30,000 for UX/UI design??

And how did development costs jump to €13,000 per month knowing you was running on empty?

What is the new ETA?
€30,000 for UX/UI design??

1. Yes.

And how did development costs jump to €13,000 per month knowing you was running on empty?

2. As you can see, every month before the expenses for development & maintenance rose, there was an expense for recruiting. Also, since our team of developers is completed now, resources needed for the selection process of new developers can now be reallocated to development.
With a near certainty probability, the costs will rise again within the next month to pay White-Hackers to pen-test the new system.

What is the new ETA?

3. The new ETA is within Q1 this year.

Could you explain more about “Recruiting”?

Of course:

Costs involved in recruiting were
- costs for agencies
- expenses for travel to the interviews (for the attendees)
- expenses for greencard processes
- management costs for work force reallocated from development to recruiting

Since we were under the impression that it would lead to nothing trying to find good, experienced developers with newspaper ads, through Reddit posts, Facebook or Google adds, we have decided to hire networks and agencies to search for talent on our behalf.

The people best fitting our need were then screened and interviewed by our CTO.

Following this procedure we were able to hire a frontend developer from Poland and a security engineer from India.
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Dear GrandMasterDash.

Very nice of you to have made such an effort to find one of the first layouts suggested by the design company that was sent to us.

It's just a layout, as we said any large currency might be exchangeable for DASH in the future. That's why both Litecoin and Ethereum are on the page.

However DASH will be the only one paired to gold.

Kind regards
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