If Dash Core v20 forked today, here's what Masternodes would get paid

[xkcd]

This cycle the Treasury Reallocation 60-20-20 proposal passed https://mnowatch.org/leaderboard/?20230923002002 and with it and the activation of platform, there will be some changes to the payments of masternodes.

Upon the fork of v20, Masternodes will be paid 60% of the emitted supply, and 50% of that will be paid to the Evonode class, currently 72 nodes and the other 50% will be paid to regular nodes.

It is important to note that funds for Evnodes will start going into the Asset Pool upon the hard fork of v20 regardless whether there are enough Evonodes to start Platform or not.

Looking at 2 recently past blocks with only a coinbase TX, we determine the current MN+Miner emission to be 2.30967232 Dash.

Generation in block 1939268
2.30967232

Generation in block 1939233
2.30967232


This Dash is 90% of the emission, so 100% = 2.5663025777777777777777777777778 Dash.

Since of that 100%, 60% will now be going to the Masternodes, we get 60% = 1.5397815466666666666666666666667 Dash for the Masternodes.

There are 3456 Regular ENABLED masternodes today and there are 72 EvoNodes that are ENABLED today as well. It is important to note that ALL masternodes, both Evo and Regular get paid once according to the L1 Core payment queue, thus the L1 payment queue will be 3456 + 72 = 3528 blocks longs, since one MN is paid per block.

Since EvoNodes will get one payment from core each cycle, to work out how much Dash needs to enter the Asset Pool, we use this equation.

50% - 50% / 4 = 37.5%


So, for each block, 62.5% (of the previous 60%) goes to paying the L1 queue, while 37.5% is put aside and goes into the Asset Pool.
ie

62.5% of 60% (above) = 0.96236346666666666666666666666667.
37.5% of 60% (above) = 0.57741808.

So, to be clear, the 0.962363466 is what you will see Masternodes getting paid on the block explorer, the queue length will be 3528 blocks long, or about 6.4 days long. There are 200288 blocks per year, so a regular masternode will earn about 200288 / 3528 = 56.770975056689342403628117913832 payments per year at about 0.962363466 Dash per payment which gives them a total of 54.634312361602418745275888132653 Dash earned a year or about 5.46% APY.

Regular MN APY based on current MN counts would be:

5.46% a year.


An Evnode gets the same reward as a Regular MN, after all, they are paid in the L1 queue just the same as any other Masternode, however, they also get paid their share of the Asset Pool which is paid once every Epoch. An Evonode gets paid in proportion to how many blocks it proposes to the network, a faster Evonode, eg better hardware will propose blocks faster and thus win the race, this is completely different to how Regular MNs work. However, assuming that all Evonodes are paid equally, we can figure out how much they will be paid.

There are 72 Evonodes, each block 0.57741808 Dash goes into the asset pool, thus an Evnode earns.

(0.57741808 / 72 * 200288) + 54.634312361602418745275888132653 = 1660.8830957927135298563869992438 Dash a year.

That is 1660 Dash for Evonode share of the Asset Pool, plus the Dash a regular node earns, this is 1660.8830957927135298563869992438 / 4000 * 100% = 41.522077394817838246409674981095%

Therefore an EvoNode will start getting paid

41.52% a year.

from day one of the v20 hardfork.


So, what can you do about this?

• You can combine your 1k Regular MNs into Evonodes now, they are cheaper to host (since only one VPS is required for each) and easier to maintain. Refer to my guide on how to create an Evnode in v19 https://www.dash.org/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-create-a-no-fuss-evo-node-in-v19.53899/
• If you have 3 Masternodes, you can buy the fourth one today, we have a discount on Dash right now, only $27k for a 1000 bagger.
  
• If you have < than 1000 Dash, you can join Crowdnode, they have already converted over some of their regular MNs to 14 Evonodes and members of crowdnode stand to make a killing when the new payment cycle rolls in.

As more people create EvnoNodes, the payment queue is decreased by 3 nodes and thus the APY increases for the Regular MN holders.
Now is a great time to create your Evnodes to ensure you are first in line at the trough for those juicy payments, because they may not last when people see what a killing EMNOs are making.


-Xk

 

[qwizzie]

Two things need to happen first :

* 80 or more Evonodes on Dash Mainnet (100 to be more on the safe side) or Platform quorums will not start.
Number of Evonodes currently on Mainnet : 72
* Miners need to throw their support behind this very first true Dash miner halving event, tied to Dash Core v20 (which reduces miner rewards in half). Because Dash Core v20 contains a hard fork that needs the support of both masternodes and miners to activate.

By the way, why is there such a large difference between your mentioned regular masternode annual ROI / APY (5.46%) and this site : https://dash-news.de/dashtv/#curr=USD&value=1000 (7.71%) ?

In practise i have seen the annual ROI / APY for a regular masternode far more close to 7.71% (77 dash per year), then to 5.46% (54 dash per year). You can verify this on Dash Central (after just getting paid) with Earnings -> 30d earnings (multiply with 12). For a single masternode it is about 80 dash a year, i reckon (so actually a little bit more then 7.71%).

 

[xkcd]

Two things need to happen first :

* 80 or more Evonodes on Dash Mainnet (100 to be more on the safe side) or Platform quorums will not start.
Number of Evonodes currently on Mainnet : 72
* Miners need to throw their support behind this very first true Dash miner halving event, tied to Dash Core v20 (which reduces miner rewards in half). Because Dash Core v20 contains a hard fork that needs the support of both masternodes and miners to activate.

By the way, why is there such a large difference between your mentioned regular masternode annual ROI / APY (5.46%) and this site : https://dash-news.de/dashtv/#curr=USD&value=1000 (7.71%) ?

In practise i have seen the annual ROI / APY for a regular masternode far more close to 7.71% (77 dash per year), then to 5.46% (54 dash per year). You can verify this on Dash Central (after just getting paid) with Earnings -> 30d earnings (multiply with 12). For a single masternode it is about 80 dash a year, i reckon (so actually a little bit more then 7.71%).

Dear Qwizzie, to be clear, regardless of reaching 80 or 100, the reward distro as I outlined above will happen post fork. Further, Dash will attempt a BIP9 hard fork in v20, however, if that fails to go through, the network will hardfork at a pre-determined block REGARDLESS of miner support. Thus v20 will activate, it's just a question of when and how many miners we bring across with us.

 

[qwizzie]

Before Dash Core v20 activation / Current situation

https://github.com/dashpay/dips/blob/master/dip-0023.md

Currently, we utilize a heavily modified version of BIP-9 for hard fork activation in Dash Core. In the previous version of Dash Core, this calculation took into account the percentage of both miners and masternodes that had upgraded. However, since the introduction of the Deterministic Masternode List, the activations have purely been based on miner signalling.

The current system declares a start timestamp. The first block of height % 4032 == 0 with a timestamp greater than the start timestamp begins the first signalling cycle. Each signalling cycle has a threshold that must be met in order for the hard fork to lock-in. In our modified BIP-9 style activation, this threshold decreases at an exponential rate (slow at first then accelerating) from 80% down to 60% after 10 cycles have passed. In any cycle, if the final percentage of blocks signalling is greater than the threshold, the activation is locked in. Then after another cycle completes, the hard fork activates.

After Dash Core v20 activation :

https://github.com/dashpay/dips/blob/master/dip-0023.md

Stage 1: Any valid LLMQ_400_85 produces a mnhfsignal message to signal that the masternode network has been upgraded. Since this is done by the LLMQ_400_85 quorum, it will in effect only occur once 85% of the masternode network has upgraded to this version. Once this message has been created, it should be included in a block as a zero fee special transaction, similar to quorum commitments. This can be done by any miner in any block, but it should only be included once.

Stage 2: Once this mnhfsignal message has been mined, two parameters are set: masternode_activation_height and min_activation_height. The cycle beginning at masternode_activation_height is the first cycle where miner signalling matters

A certain timeout block height will be specified at the implementation of the hard fork to indicate the height at which the deployment is considered failed. If a mnhfsignal message is not included in a block with a height less than the timeout block height, the hard fork is deemed to have timed out and cannot be activated.

Note : if miners do not support a certain update, they can just not mine the block containing the mnhfsignal message.

When i first read this, i thought we were already using the new system of hard forking (by mining the mnhfsignal message in a block), but upon re-reading this it became clear to me the mining of the mnhfsignal message & the time-out only occurs after Dash Core v20 activates (so with Dash Core v21).

The treshold seems to be miners signalling support for Dash Core v20 with at least 60% of the mined blocks (this needs to be reached before 10 cycles have passed). If there is insufficient support from miners, there will be no lock-in phase and we get to xkcd mentioned hard fork procedure (hard forking regardless of low miner support).

This could lead to the Dash network ending up (again) with multiple unstable forks. And i don't think there will be a spork, that can revert the Dash network back to a safe state. No spork in Dash Core v19 (to help with the previous chain halt) and no spork in Dash Core v20 to protect the Dash network. Scary and uncertain times ahead, if miners do not signal 60% support in their mined blocks before that 10 cycles period ends ......

Update : it has now become clear that Dash Core v20 will have both a hard fork that requires miner support (modified BIP9 hard fork) and a spork to activate Platform and to activate the blockreward reallocation 80-20-20 change that was previously approved.
The spork can only be activated by DCG, after a successfull lock-in and activation of the modified BIP9 hard fork.

A decision proposal has emerged that wants to expedite that blockreward reallocation 80-20-20 change from getting activated by the spork mechanisme (second hard fork / spork that needs 80% masternodes support), to getting activated by the modified BIP9 mechanisme (first hard fork that needs 80-60% miners support). See : https://www.dashcentral.org/p/Expedite-60-20-20-reallocation
It is not clear at this point what DCG will do, if the modified BIP9 hard fork fails to lock-in and activate Dash Core v20.

 

[xkcd]

Update, today there are 80 Evonodes and 3392 enabled 1k nodes.
payment queue length = 80 + 3392 = 3472.
Doing the above calc all over again gives APY for regular nodes 5.55% up from 5.46%.
and for Evnodes, the APY would now become 37.53% down from 41.52%.

This shows how the market has already formed between 1k and 4k nodes as they seek to equalise the reward paid between them.

 

[qwizzie]

See : https://www.dash.org/forum/index.php?threads/poll-dash-is-digital-cash-or-web3.54269/#post-236865

If i have read it all correctly, then nothing changes for Evonodes with future v20 activation on Mainnet.
The 37.5% of the masternode blockrewards that will flow into a Credit Pool and can optionally be unlocked for dash, will only activate once v20.1 or v21 activates on Mainnet through another hard fork (mn_rr).

The only thing related to Evonodes in v20 is the asset lock feature activation (which needs a hard fork), but i am not sure what it locks exactly, the flow of Credits into the Credit Pool only start with v20.1 or v21.

The reason behind this all is that devs do not want to put two hard forks into one update, eventhough we just voted on a decision proposal that specifically mentioned two hard forks (https://www.dashcentral.org/p/Expedite-60-20-20-reallocation) and which devs participated in.

Devs changed from hard fork (modified bip9) + hard fork (through spork) to now two hard forks in two seperate major updates, knowing in advance the delay that brings this with it.

I am going to take a wild guess and say it would take at least 6 months before we see v20.1 or v21 on Mainnet.
Which means Evonodes (currently 84 on Mainnet) will keep operating as normal masternodes (x4 mn rewards), without any change in payment logic or APY increase for the next 6 months.

 

[User777]

2023-11-13
Release v20.0.0 final
Looking forward to it!

 

[xkcd]

Update, today there are 80 Evonodes and 3392 enabled 1k nodes.
payment queue length = 80 + 3392 = 3472.
Doing the above calc all over again gives APY for regular nodes 5.55% up from 5.46%.
and for Evnodes, the APY would now become 37.53% down from 41.52%.

This shows how the market has already formed between 1k and 4k nodes as they seek to equalise the reward paid between them.

As of today, we have 107 4k nodes (103 enabled) and 3237 enabled 1k nodes.
The payment queue length is 107 + 3237 = 3344.
Repeating the calcs, the APY for the 1k nodes is 5.76% up from 5.55% since last time..
and for Evonodes, the APY is 28.46% down from 37.53% that we computed last time.

So, we can see the yields coming closer and closer together as we get closer to launching platform on mainnet, or more specifically, activating the fork that starts the assetlock pool.

 

[qwizzie]

Would it not be better to compare the APY of 4x 1K nodes (4000 dash collateral) to the APY of 1x Evonode (4000 dash collateral) ?

1K nodes : 5.76% x 4 = 23.04%
Evonode : 28.46% x1 = 28.46%

Otherwise you will be comparing apples (1000 dash) with oranges (4000 dash), with regards to annual APY.

 

[peter]

And with 10 MNs, you would get 57.6% !!

 

[xkcd]

Would it not be better to compare the APY of 4x 1K nodes (4000 dash collateral) to the APY of 1x Evonode (4000 dash collateral) ?

1K nodes : 5.76% x 4 = 23.04%
Evonode : 28.46% x1 = 28.46%

Otherwise you will be comparing apples (1000 dash) with oranges (4000 dash), with regards to annual APY.

Not really, because the percentage is based on the amount staked, so it will still be 5.76% for one 1k node and 5.76% in the case you had 4 of them, because while you do get paid more Dash, you also needed more Dash to get paid. In the case of evonodes, they really do earn more Dash per same quantity of Dash, but that gap is closing as people take advantage of the free money.

 

[misha]

Would it not be better to compare the APY of 4x 1K nodes (4000 dash collateral) to the APY of 1x Evonode (4000 dash collateral) ?

1K nodes : 5.76% x 4 = 23.04%
Evonode : 28.46% x1 = 28.46%

Otherwise you will be comparing apples (1000 dash) with oranges (4000 dash), with regards to annual APY.

My eyes....
A minute of mathematics
1к Nodes APY 5.76% This does not mean that you need to multiply everything by 4 !!!!
This APY 5.76 4all 1к MN! 4000*0.0576=230.4 Dash per year! Not 23.04%
EVO 4000*0.2846=1138 Dash per year.
Agree 1138 > 230.
I've finished

 

[qwizzie]

Not really, because the percentage is based on the amount staked, so it will still be 5.76% for one 1k node and 5.76% in the case you had 4 of them, because while you do get paid more Dash, you also needed more Dash to get paid. In the case of evonodes, they really do earn more Dash per same quantity of Dash, but that gap is closing as people take advantage of the free money.

I put your calculations in a spreadsheet and did three situations :

Current situation :

Situation with +100 Evonodes & -400 masternodes
(ignore * pulled from DMT, this is a manual change / look into the future)

Situation with another +100 Evonodes & -400 masternodes
(ignore * pulled from DMT, this is a manual change / look into the future)

Makes things much more clear for me now, thank you for the provided calculations.

 

[xkcd]

I put your calculations in a spreadsheet and did three situations :

Current situation :

View attachment 12222

Situation with +100 Evonodes & -400 masternodes
(ignore * pulled from DMT, this is a manual change / look into the future)

View attachment 12224

Situation with another +100 Evonodes & -400 masternodes
(ignore * pulled from DMT, this is a manual change / look into the future)

View attachment 12225

Makes things much more clear for me now, thank you for the provided calculations.

Just be aware that Evonodes get paid both from the standard 1k payment queue and the platform fee, so in the second example you show where the only change is there are an additional 100 Evonodes, the pay of the 1k nodes should appear to go down because the queue is longer by a hundred nodes. An evonode will be paid once per rotation post MM_RR hard fork, currently they are paid four times consecutively.

 

[qwizzie]

Just be aware that Evonodes get paid both from the standard 1k payment queue and the platform fee, so in the second example you show where the only change is there are an additional 100 Evonodes, the pay of the 1k nodes should appear to go down because the queue is longer by a hundred nodes. An evonode will be paid once per rotation post MM_RR hard fork, currently they are paid four times consecutively.

Purely looking at the payment queue on L1 :

* Current situation with current payment queue

3230 + (103*4) = 3230+412 = 3642 payment queue on L1 (prior v20.1 activation)

** Current situation with new payment queue logic

3230 + (103*1) = 3230+103 = 3333 payment queue on L1 (v20.1 activated)

* Situation with 400 masternodes converted into 100 Evonodes (second example)

2830 + (203*1) = 3033 payment queue on L1 (v20.1 activated)

* Situation with another 400 masternodes converted into 100 Evonodes (third example)

2430 + (303*1) = 2733 payment queue on L1 (v20.1 activated)

Above payment queue on L1 depends (and is subject to change) on the number of enabled Masternodes and the number of enabled Evonodes, when v20.1 activates. And is not taking into account new buyers, setting up Evonodes directly (not converting from existing masternodes).

Also all three situations in my previous post basically take into account that v20.1 already successfully activated.

 

[xkcd]

Hi Community, it is with great joy that today I announce the Dash Evonodes page!
The above calculations are now computed automatically on that page and presented as a graph over time!
Do check it out and let us know what you think!

Evonodes

Dash Evonodes information

mnowatch.org

 

[qwizzie]

It would not surprise me by the time Platform features get activated on Mainnet and Evonodes APY effectively starts, the equilibrium between Masternodes and Evonodes will have pretty much balanced out. At least the Evonodes network will be stronger for it.
But no early birds reaping massive benefits for Evonode owners anymore it seems, due to ongoing Platform release / activation delays.

Lets take for example an increase of enabled Evonodes from 111 (current) to 200 (future) and a decrease of enabled Masternodes from 2955 (current) to 2599 (future)

Note : this is assuming Masternode owners continue to convert their Masternodes to Evonodes and excludes newly purchased and setup Evonodes. It also takes into account the increased 20% Treasury, which affected Block Gen + Fees.

 

[CoinRider]

Please could somebody explain how is distributions from a Credit Pool happens.


As its writed long time ago by xkcd
before EvoNodes become active...

"An Evnode gets the same reward as a Regular MN, after all, they are paid in the L1 queue just the same as any other Masternode, however, they also get paid their share of the Asset Pool which is paid once every Epoch. An Evonode gets paid in proportion to how many blocks it proposes to the network, a faster Evonode, eg better hardware will propose blocks faster and thus win the race, this is completely different to how Regular MNs work. However, assuming that all Evonodes are paid equally, we can figure out how much they will be paid."



Please could you describe is payments from a Credit Pool, already distributing to EvoNodes?
Because if i look to chart, its constantly growing and looks like its accumulating only, not distributing..

How distribution happens is it paid once every Epoch,
Is it gets paid in DASH or in a Platform Balance credits, that needs to be separately converted. How to convert them.
And where this payment goes, is its comes to masternode payout address or to another one?

 

[xkcd]

Please could somebody explain how is distributions from a Credit Pool happens.


As its writed long time ago by xkcd
before EvoNodes become active...

"An Evnode gets the same reward as a Regular MN, after all, they are paid in the L1 queue just the same as any other Masternode, however, they also get paid their share of the Asset Pool which is paid once every Epoch. An Evonode gets paid in proportion to how many blocks it proposes to the network, a faster Evonode, eg better hardware will propose blocks faster and thus win the race, this is completely different to how Regular MNs work. However, assuming that all Evonodes are paid equally, we can figure out how much they will be paid."



Please could you describe is payments from a Credit Pool, already distributing to EvoNodes?
Because if i look to chart, its constantly growing and looks like its accumulating only, not distributing..
View attachment 12676
View attachment 12677


How distribution happens is it paid once every Epoch,
Is it gets paid in DASH or in a Platform Balance credits, that needs to be separately converted. How to convert them.
And where this payment goes, is its comes to masternode payout address or to another one?

This was all discussed in great detail in the DCG development update linked here

Also, the evonodes page remains a fantastic resource to help us understand this and that. https://mnowatch.org/evonodes/