How to onboard 300,000 new users in one geographic location

[DavidHay]

This isnt you main problem.
You main problem is to create a crypto community.
You cannot create this community by just giving courses to people, and a 4$ tip.
You have to be able to contact the people again, and remind them that they belong to the crypto community. Thats why you should give them small tips periodicaly in a long term, the way dash.red is doing.

This is how you should start. The community should be your goal, and not just teaching or giving tips to people that will disappear.

I've been working on this project for months. I asked you to explain in detail how your solution would work because you've criticized mine without providing an alternative.

Now you switch gears and claim this isn't the main problem and the community is.

The people in Cucuta don't understand what crypto is, they need it more than anyone else in the world. This isn't a tip system. I am providing over 2 weeks wages to people that have lost everything due to hyper inflation.

If family members in Cucuta work and want to send money back there is a 400% spread on BSF right now in the exchange office. I'm doing my best to explain the situation on the ground and I can get our team members who live there to answer any questions you have.

When the internet was first created it was difficult to get people to adopt. People had to give classes on why email was important and how to use it. This is no different.

Crypto isn't an impossible concept to grasp, it's like teaching a man to fish.

 

[smadger]

Hi guys, I'm in the core team with David and others, and thought I'd pop in.

I told you the alternative.

1. Dont give the money immediatly after the course.
   
2. Teach a batch of 300 people, then organize a cryptoparty of 300 people and give them some money.
3. Then teach a new batch of another 300 people, then organize a new cryptoparty of (potentially max) 600 people (and give some money again, to the people who will attend it).
4. Then teach a new batch of another 300 people, then organize yet another cryptoparty (or concurrent cryptoparties) of (potentially max) 900 people (and again give money to the people who will attend it).
   
5. e.t.c.
6. e.t.c.
7. e.t.c.

This is how you will create the crypto community, and not some random people who got 4$ and disappeared.

I'm afraid the issue you're trying to solve isn't resolved with the method you're suggesting. In order to organise the party you would need to take more personal details than the system we're trying to implement. At the very least a name and photo in order to verify that particular person has been through the lessons to allow them into the party, running the system across multiple locations and times would require more and more information and administrative work. The single piece of information we are looking to use is a single fingerprint, nothing more.

Also I think people would be more worried about attending some training where they received nothing, their details were taken, and then told to turn up somewhere else at a later date. We believe people are more likely to turn up to something when they get a "reward" for doing so straight away.

We know there are privacy concerns, but we believe the single fingerprint approach is the safest and most economical solution for all parties involved.

 

[George Donnelly]

George your complaints thus far about branding seems strange.

You requested USD$32,000 from Dash IIRC.

In return you promised the same exposure Digibyte got.

I am trying to figure out what is the exposure Digibyte got. Because I have not been able to find myself what exposure Digibyte got.

I hope I have managed to make my question clear. This is a simple question of what $32,000 buys (or whatever the amount is that you're seeking from Dash).

 

[DavidHay]

I will explain, slow down. I am not a native english speaker, and my demo4 account was recently banned for spaming.

Everything I said here in this thread was deleted.
Was it worthless? Was it out of subject?
You are allowed to talk, I am not.
Dont you wonder why?

I'm guessing it's because you kept talking about cryptoparty without ever explaining how it would work. If it's an improvement on our current system I'm willing to listen.

 

[DavidHay]

You requested USD$32,000 from Dash IIRC.

In return you promised the same exposure Digibyte got.

I am trying to figure out what is the exposure Digibyte got. Because I have not been able to find myself what exposure Digibyte got.

I hope I have managed to make my question clear. This is a simple question of what $32,000 buys (or whatever the amount is that you're seeking from Dash).

Thanks George, I thought we were talking about the main proposal. You are asking for clarification about giving laptops to schools which is a side project we're working on while we get ready to launch.

Here's how it will work

1.) A crypto can sponsor a class room ( 30 student $1950) or school (500 students $35,500).
2.) I will deliver the laptops to the school or class of their choosing. They will be loaded with language learning software, excel, word, a crypto wallet and e-books
3.) I will make youtube videos and publish them along with information about the crypto that sponsored it.
4.) We will be tracking results on our website cryptocucuta.com and social media sites
5.) We will follow up with the students through out the year.
6.) The individual crypto projects will have the opportunity to engage directly with the schools they are sponsoring.

If the crypto community starts contributing large amounts of computers to the poorest schools this could gain main stream media attention.

We don't have to start with a 32k donation. I can use a donation of $1950 to buy 30 computers and prove the concept works.

 

[demo]

@DavidHay Let me repeat the (deleted) proposal of demo4 (and demo5). For a strange reason, although I am allowed to post one message every 5-10 minutes, my messages from demo account are not deleted.
So here you are:

1. You teach a bunch of people (lets say 100 persons per day)
2. After a time period (lets say a "week") you organize a cryptoparty of 7X100=700 people. In this cryptoparty (which occurs in a closed room, courtyard or stadium, or in several places concurrently) you let the people to put into a ballot box their prefered crypto wallet address (printed in QR code). You open the ballot box(es), you scan the wallets, and you pay the people.
3. Then you teach a new bunch of people for another "week", and now at the end of the week you have to organize a cryptoparty of max 2X700=1400 people. This cryptoparty should support at max 1400 people, so you have to increase your infrastructure (more closed rooms, or one bigger). Again, during the cryptoparties, you take care of not allowing someone to put two or more wallets into the ballot box(es) (the closed room and the concurrent cryptoparties guarantees this). Now you have to pay (at max) 1400 people.
   
4. And so on, the third "week" e.t.c.

This is how you should start. You should not expose people's biometrics, this is extremely dangerous.The formation of a crypto community should be your goal, not just teaching or giving money to people that will then disappear.

 

[smadger]

@DavidHay Let me repeat the (deleted) proposal of demo4 (and demo5). For a strange reason, although I am allowed to post one message every 5-10 minutes, my messages from demo account are not deleted.
So here you are:

1. You teach a bunch of people (lets say 100 persons per day)
2. After a time period (lets say a "week") you organize a cryptoparty of 7X100=700 people. In this cryptoparty (which occurs in a closed room, courtyard or stadium, or in several places concurrently) you let the people to put into a ballot box their prefered crypto wallet address (printed in QR code). You open the ballot box(es), you scan the wallets, and you pay the people.
3. Then you teach a new bunch of people for another "week", and now at the end of the week you have to organize a cryptoparty of max 2X700=1400 people. This cryptoparty should support at max 1400 people, so you have to increase your infrastructure (more closed rooms, or one bigger). Again, during the cryptoparties, you take care of not allowing someone to put two or more wallets into the ballot box(es) (the closed room and the concurrent cryptoparties guarantees this). Now you have to pay (at max) 1400 people.
   
4. And so on, the third "week" e.t.c.

This is how you should start. You should not expose people's biometrics, this is extremely dangerous.The formation of a crypto community should be your goal, not just teaching or giving money to people that will then disappear.

Thanks for your suggestions, the core team are always open to new ideas for the project. The main problem I can see with the cryptoparty suggestion is one of logistics, and that it is no more private than our current plan.

In order to track participants through the system effectively we would require more personal data than we are currently planning to use that simply gives us a binary yes/no answer to the question "has this person received funds before?".

Repeatedly organising events for over 700 people every week is a huge logistical challenge, our current plan means we only have to set up one location and everything can be done at once. What happens if people can attend the training, but not the party? What happens if there are no venues available that can hold 700 people for a number of weeks? Things get very complicated very quickly.

We are fully aware of the importance of community involvement and infrastructure development, there have been many discussions about this topics, but we feel that trying to do everything ourselves will prevent us carrying out the distribution tasks properly. We are actively seeking to work with other teams, who have experience dealing with merchants and running events so we can work together to cover all bases.

 

[demo]

Thanks for your suggestions, the core team are always open to new ideas for the project. The main problem I can see with the cryptoparty suggestion is one of logistics, and that it is no more private than our current plan.

In order to track participants through the system effectively we would require more personal data than we are currently planning to use that simply gives us a binary yes/no answer to the question "has this person received funds before?".

In a cryptoparty you dont need personal data at all!!!
People can participate in the cryptoparty anonymously, even being masked if they want. The only prerequisites is that the room/stadium to have closed doors, that no people should enter after the room is full, and that the doors should remain closed until the procedure is finished. And this is because the procedure requires to count the attendees, to count the printed wallets found into the ballot box, and to confirm that they are the same number.

 

[Argon31]

You should run a pilot with 1000 users first.

Do get greedy.

 

[smadger]

In a cryptoparty you dont need personal data at all!!!
People can participate in the cryptoparty anonymously, even being masked if they want. The only prerequisites is that the room/stadium to have closed doors, that no people should enter after the room is full, and that the doors should remain closed until the procedure is finished. And this is because the procedure requires to count the attendees, to count the printed wallets found into the ballot box, and to confirm that they are the same number.

We must have a way to ensure that people do not take advantage of the system and receive crypto twice, we feel that a single anonymised fingerprint is the best way to do this. I agree it is not ideal, but I disagree that asking people to be shut in a room with masks on is a better way, what is to stop people coming back the next week and taking advantage again and again?

I understand the sentiment, I really do, but a cryptoparty is only suitable for a one-time event, not an extended program.

 

[smadger]

You should run a pilot with 1000 users first.

Do get greedy.

We agree, we are planning on running the project in phases and seeing what works best and where we can improve after each one.

 

[demo]

we feel that a single anonymised fingerprint is the best way to do this. I agree it is not ideal, but I disagree that asking people to be shut in a room with masks on is a better way, what is to stop people coming back the next week and taking advantage again and again?

Being masked in a cryptoparty is optional, not a prerequisite.
People ARE EXPECTED to come back the next "week" (or month or whatever period you decide according the logistics) in order they receive their next payment.
This is the idea, this is what we want, to summon people periodically and pay them. Thats how the community will be created. You cannot create a community if you just teach people and pay them once. People will disappear that way, and your efforts will be futile.

 

[TheSingleton]

I just want to say that I support this project. Especially with all the effort that has already gone into it.

What is your current timeline? When do you plan on submitting a proposal? I fear with the current price it will be hard to quickly get 2Million$. Personally, I wouldn't' recommend asking for more then 500 Dash per Month

 

[solarguy]

Demo thinks outside the box. Demo sometimes comes up with novel ideas.

In no way does Demo speak for the Dash community, any more than I speak for the Dash community.

Demo also speaks of taking other people's money, because it's not fair that they have that money.

 

[smadger]

Being masked in a cryptoparty is optional, not a prerequisite.
People ARE EXPECTED to come back the next "week" (or month or whatever period you decide according the logistics) in order they receive their next payment.
This is the idea, this is what we want, to summon people periodically and pay them. Thats how the community will be created. You cannot create a community if you just teach people and pay them once. People will disappear that way, and your efforts will be futile.

We absolutely understand the need for infrastructure and communities around the project, and we are looking at ways to do this, please don't think we're ignoring it. Obviously the two elements go hand-in-hand but we are treating them separately. Our main focus is the distribution of funds in the easiest and most economical way.

We would hope that perhaps once the main distribution is underway that other groups within the coin community could help and assist with the community element. After all we're all ultimately here for the same reasons and doing so would be mutually beneficial.

 

[smadger]

I just want to say that I support this project. Especially with all the effort that has already gone into it.

What is your current timeline? When do you plan on submitting a proposal? I fear with the current price it will be hard to quickly get 2Million$. Personally, I wouldn't' recommend asking for more then 500 Dash per Month

Thanks for the support! We have been working hard, but there is still plenty of work to do.

I cannot give you specifics in terms of dates, there are many complications, but I agree that making a request for that amount will be difficult.

 

[smadger]

Demo thinks outside the box. Demo sometimes comes up with novel ideas.

In no way does Demo speak for the Dash community, any more than I speak for the Dash community.

Demo also speaks of taking other people's money, because it's not fair that they have that money.

Demo, and everybody else has the absolute right to ask questions, we might not agree on the answers, but we welcome the dialogue

 

[demo]

We absolutely understand the need for infrastructure and communities around the project, and we are looking at ways to do this, please don't think we're ignoring it. Obviously the two elements go hand-in-hand but we are treating them separately. Our main focus is the distribution of funds in the easiest and most economical way.

We would hope that perhaps once the main distribution is underway that other groups within the coin community could help and assist with the community element. After all we're all ultimately here for the same reasons and doing so would be mutually beneficial.

Unfortunately we cannot be part of the same community.

Your biometric system requires trust on few persons, that they will not sell the fingerprint database. Whatever biometric system has been tried, it has been proved dangerous (and potentially racist).

http://www.wired.co.uk/article/unit...iometric-database-rohingya-myanmar-bangladesh

On the other hand, the cryptoparties system does not require personal or biometric identification, it is completely anonymous, and it is a trust-less system (because nobody is in charge during the cryptoparty procedure).

I would rather follow Satoshi, and be part of an anonymous community that promotes trust-less systems, rather than follow proponents of biometrics or proponents of trustees.

 

[smadger]

Unfortunately we cannot be part of the same community.

Your biometric system requires trust on few persons, that they will not sell the fingerprint database. Whatever biometic system has been tried, it has been proved dangerous (and potentially racist).

http://www.wired.co.uk/article/unit...iometric-database-rohingya-myanmar-bangladesh

While the cryptoparties system does not require personal of biometric identification, it is completely anonymous, and it is a trust-less system (because nobody is in charge during the cryptoparty procedure).

I would rather to follow Satoshi, and be part of the anonymous Satoshi commuioty, rather than follow biometric proponents like you.

That is ok, we understand that not all of us will agree on the best way forward. And thank you for posting that article, I was aware of the issues and discussions surrounding it, but had not read that specific one. There are a lot of differences between the operation and purpose of the UNHCR run system, and ours, but there are definitely things we can learn from it.

 

[The philosofers coin]

I'll first address the message I was trying to explain to you, after that I offer a mirroring response to your response (I hope you'll learn for the experience, and we can move forwardly in a more professional manner, please keep your emotions in check sir)

First of all Dash it's main goal is to become a global digital currency. There are a great many things to be done to be able to a actually reach that goal. Without going into great detail because that would simply take far to long.
You need to understand that a currency suffers if it has to share it's seat with other similar currency's, sure different types of currency's can work together, but if you can pay with Dollar's you should not carry euro's around as well, let alone 10 or more different ones.
An other one is that you wish to educate the people in Venezuela how to use crypto. This will get exponentially more complicated if multiple crypto currency's need to be learned and understood, and it will be exponentially easier once Dash evolution is available(do that will still take quit some time). In lower educated country's such as Venezuela the difficulty to explain increase substantially as well.

Simply using multi-currency's wallets are not a solution, the disable key features of coins, in case of Dash instant send, and private sent are no longer available which are key features if one wants to be able to spend at local brick and mortar stores (I hope you already know that 0-conf is not secure enough) For a merchants accepting different currency's it's even more complicated, because which POS-devices will he use ? how many will he use ? Who will pay for the initially upfront cost the POS devices ? once he uses them, to what currency will he convert them ?, how much will he be charged from one to another crypto. What currency's do his supplier prefer. At that point, I would say to a guy like that, look why not convert it all to dollars. Your goal was to replace the bolivar with an actual use able crypto-currency. The fact of the matter is Dash is by far the currency of choice when you look at current functionality, and has realist roadmap with an actually full size team to make it happen , you should not take my word for it do, just study for years on end the top500 crypto's and conclude the same. Dash has also been more stable than BTC in 2 quarters in a row, to my knowledge no other crypto has managed that (definitely not nano nor digibyte). In fact the only currency that had ever had a real shot at it, was bitcoin but it cut it's own shot at it short with it's 1mb blocks.

I am not saying it's not very cool what you did for those people there, in fact it rocks, what I am saying is look at the bigger picture. I am certain that the Dash Venezuela teams have lot's of interesting stuff to say about it as well.
Further more I am close to 100% certain that you would have gotten, does relative small amounts, just look at other smaller types of similar proposals.
Dash also introduced Dash Boost, if you would have contacted them, I would expect them to help you out as well. Do you have some what decreased your changes by promoting digibyte and Nano, all the while you have many people here trying to help you create a proper proposal Dash MNO are willing to fund, quit a few people have spend a couple of your on your own proposal alone, talking to us in this way is very disrespectful. Furthermore you can not blame the whole dash community for comments some individuals make (including me).

As for the free lunch remark, I understand your taking it out of context, but if you had been active in Dash as a MNO that votes and follows his or her's votes, you'll see that Dash has paid multiple times for stuff that other coins got for free thanks to Dash paying for it. Dash never get's anywhere the credit for these types of investment. Dash MNO are fed up paying for other coins while not getting just rewards. To increase your changes to get funded you should at least understand this aspect as well.

I could go into great detail into all of the above. I am open for very long discussions via skype. (and I would also be fine doing so without mentioning the word Dash, seeing the end question will remain the same what is the best approach to onboard 300.000 people from Venezuela, and the answer will be Dash)










---------------------------------------------------------------------------my mirroring response to you ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wow, DadivHay that some aggressive, insulting, pointing finger like behavior, I expect more from a guy how, just wants to help suffer people.

There are many problems with what I am say lol, talk about a handwaving statement, it not my fault your trying to lift up to much Hay all at once, seeing it be well over a month that you have been active here it certainly looks like your the one with to many problems that you can not solve. I understand it's easier than to simply turn Dash and me into a scapegoat, instead of owning up your delays. Maybe you should choose your words a bit more carefully instead of shooting we can help these people right now !, and than taking forever.

It almost seems like you so aggressive about being the good guy in the room, and you want the whole world to know it so badly you even put stickers on the bench's of the people you helped.

what's that all about ? (sure so they can get info, well you should done it with out your name attached, is your goal to be viewed as a saint)

Your constantly saying I am doing this for free !, I will not use the money for myself !, once is enough. It's like say nobody else ever does anything for free !
I got a decent bag of cash myself it's easy to be a good guy if you have more than enough, and because of that I helped a few others as well. That's just how the maslow piramide works.
Be grade-full that you are in that position. Most MNO are not yet in that position.

Furthermore you're attempting to make me look like the bad-guy is truly toxic, and your attempt to alienate me will not work !, if I can be part of help 300.000 people I will suffer your insults, even do you get all the credit glory and praise, and get a hands on experience how appreciating the people are face to face (yeah I had a small number of these awesome experiences as well)

It's not my fault that you who doesn't understand how a DAO such as the one of Dash works.
It's not my fault that you are unable to instantly get 2 milions just because you have an idea, you can always put up 2 milion of your own money ....(you could help these people right now !)

It's also not my fault that you don't get the Dash DAO does not work with donations, but there are plenty of examples of people that start off with a small project and than went bigger.
You also don't seem to get that 2k or so is peanuts for the goodwill other coins get from this, if you really think that it's just to help does poor people you're very native, and may be you should not be in crypto in the first place.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------- end of my mirroring response to you---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*PS You did not respond to over my month old questions
**PS I think if you really want to do a smaller proposal first, where Dash can show some goodwill please contact Dashboost.