Dash v12.3 Release Announcement - available July 3rd

[camosoul]

Because neither the devs nor the wallet are stupid. PrivateSend balances and transparent balances are strictly and explicitly kept apart, that's why you have two balances shown after mixing. They never touch (which means it's also not gay).

The only way to force transparent dust and PS funds to touch is to privatesend coins to yourself, turning said coins transparent again, and then mix with the dust. That has no impact on privacy, because there is no privacy left to impact.

Ah, there you go, limiting the scope to avoid the issue...

I never said PrivateSend Change. I said Dead Change.

Dust still exists. Change still exists. Every incoming TX that doesn't denominate evenly.

Since the only way you can combone your dust is to do a non-PrivateSend TX, the Dead Change issue still exists. You put your finger in the Change from PrivateSend hole of the Dead Change problem, but you didn't plug up the problem I was talking about, as @TroyDASH points out here. Dead Change can come from other places, and it's not fixed.

...if you do a regular tx and combine the create denominations dust with one of the final anonymized denominations, then you would be associating that non-private dust with the final denomination transaction, which I would imagine might severely weaken your privacy for other PrivateSend txs that you might have sent using vins from the same final denominate-tx (wouldn't it be like doing only one round of mixing?). I'd defer to @UdjinM6 to weigh in on this scenario.

This would clearly apply to any and all dust smaller than a denomination no matter how it is achieved.

And after thinking about it for a bit, I actually came up with a solution for it. Perhaps you can build upon this, or tell me why I'm stupid, but the basic premise seems like it would work...

I'd been toying the idea of a delayed PS mixing function that allowed a mix of 3 + N. Then I started thinking about the brilliant simplicity that got @UdjinM6 hired...

Since the "pile the change into a bigger VIN" problem can't be fixed by breaking it down, by definition, maybe it can be fixed by building it up?

What if a daily, weekly or monthly (or, in real terms, every 100 blocks, every 400 blocks, oer every 100 blocks, or better dynamically based on TX volume) "garbage collection" transaction was signed and created similar to the voting superblock?

Since the damning associations aren't made until the non-PrivateSend TX occurs, maybe EVERYONE could get together in one bigass TX? Sure, you just gave away associations...Or did you? Everyone was in it! Which one was whose? You'd need MN blinding or maybe a more robust onion routing for messaging... Essentially, you'd be making the same association as the original TX. You'd be giving away no more information than the original TX. To a 3rd party observer, it's nothing more than "Yup, that thing that happened certainly did happen."

That same mechanic could even facilitate the roll-forward notion for a rolling BlockChain instead of a perpetual one... Sort of. If built at protocol-level...

Normal PS mixing is all about speed. So, going the minimum 3, and going as fast as possible matters. This is why other possible modes of operation for PS are unacceptable. But, as Garbage Collection, other modes could work...

Feel free to tell me that there's no point to this, but I can clearly see a point to this.

At it's lowest form, "the dust problem" is still a thing and DASH isn't alone in having it. The only way to denominate a large collection of dust is to roll it into a bigger VIN. Even if it didn't do anything else, it still proves that all of those came from the same client. Maybe that's not catastrophic. Maybe that's not even bad. But it's still ungood. And it does seem fixable.

Perhaps I've generated my own distraction by calling it Dead Change. To me, that's exactly what it is...

 

[camosoul]

...I continue to see a use of distraction tactics. I mention Dead Change is still a problem, everyone so far insists that DS TXes can't be de-pirvatized by it.
Sure.
Fine.
That's all well and good.
I honestly don't see it, but even if I concede the point.

It hasn't got anything to do with the topic I've brought up.

What about change/dust from all the other sources from which change/dust can come?
What if a person operates in micropayments? These never get denominated to begin with. They are dust. DS is not involved.
Change from denomination can come from a variety of inputs.
Non-DS VINs.
Payment from MNs are another thing. I brought that up first since it's the biggest deal... If you receive payments from multiple MNs (which by nature will not be DS), and each one goes into a wallet to be denominated, They make dust as they do it. This associates every MN as owned by the same person through it's dust, exactly like the microtransaction example. MNs should care about this, but I don't think most realize it...

At this time, all a sender has to do is watch what they sent, and wait for it to be rolled into a bigger VIN, and they can see every dust/change VIN that was rolled into it.

"But muh DS TXes weren't compromised!"

There weren't any DS TXes involved! These scenarios are not privatized.

Lets say you had, you know a vending machine... Soda isn't $100. $0.50 of DASH is a non-denominatable amount (though, if you don't start taking reality seriously, it may soon be...). It's easy for anyone who makes a single purchase to then view the vendor's entire transaction history publicly. From this perspective, you really don't support micropayments. At least DS doesn't...

The rendezvous system for DS could operate in another way that solves this sort of problem. Instead of distracting from the problem I'm pointing out by pointing to a solution that has noting to do with what I'm talking about, address the problem I'm actually talking about instead of using that distraction tactic to pull the wool over the eyes of onlookers.

If you used a dust collection system that allows, nay, expects, far more than 3 participants, and deliberately waits a set amount of time, this allows dust consolidation that doesn't give away information. It's an improvement. But if you won't admit that it's a thing, and keep pointing at an irrelevant fix to something completely different, that will continue to be overlooked.

Maybe my idea for dust collection isn't the best way to do it. It's just an idea silly ol' me had for dealing with the fact that, no, the Dead Change problem is still in effect. Yes, one hole was plugged, the biggest and most obvious hole. But, yes, dust still does come into existence, and no, there is no way to consolidate it without generating a provable rollup VIN. Duh, that's the very definition of what you're doing when you roll your dust into a bigger total VIN... But, if 40 people got into a DS-like pool to roll all their dust at once... Now that problem is lessened significantly. The result goes into the normal DS denomination process (maybe the MNs don't send it back proportionally, but immediately start the denominating themselves?), the single leftover dust VIN awaits the next dust collection cycle... It never ends. Nothing escapes DS anymore. You don't have an ever growing amount of dust that you better not touch for the association it will generate to consolidate it.

Dust is really DS's only shortcoming, and this gets rid of it...

Why are distraction tactics (pointing at a fix for something completely different) used instead of addressing it?

If the car is out of gas, proudly declaring that you put air in the tires 3.5 years ago does not solve the problem... Car still out of gas.

 

[Pasta]

Hey @camosoul, I really appreciate you looking into this, it's been a good conversation to read through. A little about myself, I am as close to what one might call an active PrivateSend "researcher" and enthusiast and I have discovered many things worth improving and that have been improved, that's just to say I know the privatesend system and even codebase pretty well.

With that being said, what you've described is something that can be improved on but is not a flaw in the current system. The current system was designed to protect sends, which it does, what you are talking about is potential de-anon through receiving coins. What you've described will not break a PS.

In the current setup, in the create denominations step, any inputs spendable by the same private key, ie they were received with the same address, will be automatically 'combined'. Any other inputs, smaller than the smallest denom must be manually combined. I believe those inputs are the ones you refer to as 'dead.' And yes, there is no way to combine those without affecting receiving privacy. As in anyone that sent funds to you can see some of the other funds you received, however this will not affect send privacy. You could manually combine inputs in such a way that only a small amount of the receiving history is affected.

All in all, receiving privacy, especially when receiving small amounts, is definitely an area where dash is somewhat lacking, and it could use some improvement. However, is it that high of a focus? Not in my opinion.

 

[tungfa]

Dash Spork 10 is now active , only 12.3 Masternodes are now accepted in the payment cycle
https://github.com/dashpay/dash/blob/v0.12.3.1/doc/release-notes.md

 

[spencer-hunt]

Hi guys please can someone point me in the right direction.I'm pretty new to dash so go easy,

I got in about 2 years ago everything has been fine...but last night I turned on my laptop to buy and send some dash to my wallet, I then noticed my balance hadn't changed and it was out of sync.

My dash wallet is not syncd and has frozen I can't do anything on it, it still shows the balance of my dash, but not from my latest transactions..im hoping they will show once its all syncd again? iv done some research and I'm thinking maybe I need to UPDATE my wallet to the latest version 12.3.3. could this cause my wallet to freeze?

My main question to you is I can't find a update button in the wallet, so if I download the latest version to my Mac, when it say (replace wallet or keep both )what do I need to do to update it? will this replace my wallet completely with a new one and ill lose my dash? or will it auto update it from the old version and just start to sync with the new update?

Or if this is completely wrong what is the correct way ?

kind regards Spencer

 

[qwizzie]

Hi guys please can someone point me in the right direction.I'm pretty new to dash so go easy,

I got in about 2 years ago everything has been fine...but last night I turned on my laptop to buy and send some dash to my wallet, I then noticed my balance hadn't changed and it was out of sync.

My dash wallet is not syncd and has frozen I can't do anything on it, it still shows the balance of my dash, but not from my latest transactions..im hoping they will show once its all syncd again? iv done some research and I'm thinking maybe I need to UPDATE my wallet to the latest version 12.3.3. could this cause my wallet to freeze?

My main question to you is I can't find a update button in the wallet, so if I download the latest version to my Mac, when it say (replace wallet or keep both )what do I need to do to update it? will this replace my wallet completely with a new one and ill lose my dash? or will it auto update it from the old version and just start to sync with the new update?

Or if this is completely wrong what is the correct way ?

kind regards Spencer

Dash wallet updates need to be downloaded and installed manually, there is no auto update within DashCore wallets. First make a backup of your wallet and put it somewhere safe, see if you can make that backup from within your current wallet. If the freeze of your wallet makes that impossible, then close your wallet and copy your wallet.dat which you can find in your Dash installation directory and put that somewhere safe (pref on some usb sticks that you keep offline).

Next pls tell us what Dash version you are currently on and check the current balance of your address here : https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dash/ to see if your latest transaction is known on the blockchain.
If your current version of your Dash wallet is very old (older than v0.12.1.x), then check following guide : https://docs.dash.org/en/stable/wallets/recovery.html#dashcore-restore

 

[spencer-hunt]

t

Dash wallet updates need to be downloaded and installed manually, there is no auto update within DashCore wallets. First make a backup of your wallet and put it somewhere safe, see if you can make that backup from within your current wallet. If the freeze of your wallet makes that impossible, then close your wallet and copy your wallet.dat which you can find in your Dash installation directory and put that somewhere safe (pref on some usb sticks that you keep offline).

Next pls tell us what Dash version you are currently on and check the current balance of your address here : https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dash/ to see if your latest transaction is known on the blockchain.
If your current version of your Dash wallet is very old (older than v0.12.1.x), then check following guide : https://docs.dash.org/en/stable/wallets/recovery.html#dashcore-restore

thanks for your reply,
I have backed up wallet and put on usb, I also checked on that link you sent me and yes the transactions are on there which is good thank you.
The current version Iv got on my wallet is v0.12.2.
Is it normal for wallets to freeze from time to time? mines been stuck on 80.33% for 5 days now and just says connecting to peers in the bottom bar.
What would be the best thing for me to do now with the wallet frozen? install the new one and fingers crossed my coins will sync over?

 

[qwizzie]

t



thanks for your reply,
I have backed up wallet and put on usb, I also checked on that link you sent me and yes the transactions are on there which is good thank you.
The current version Iv got on my wallet is v0.12.2.
Is it normal for wallets to freeze from time to time? mines been stuck on 80.33% for 5 days now and just says connecting to peers in the bottom bar.
What would be the best thing for me to do now with the wallet frozen? install the new one and fingers crossed my coins will sync over?

Best is just to remove the peers.dat file from your installation directory (should be in the same folder as where your wallet.dat is located) and install
the new Dash wallet. The wallet will create a new peers.dat file with new connections, when you start it again. This should help with the syncing.

With windows there is a zip file that you can download and where you can extract the dash-qt.exe from and simply replace the old dash-qt.exe.
With MAC there should be something similiar to updating your dash wallet.

Edit : looks like you will download a .dmg file for OSX, which means installation is a bit different (I'm not a MAC user). Just follow installation guide here : https://docs.dash.org/en/stable/wallets/dashcore/installation-macos.html
The update from v0.12.2 to v0.12.3 should not effect your wallet.dat (you have a backup anyways).

If you still have problems syncing, then try removing the following files from your Dash installation directory when wallet is closed :

mncache.dat
fee_estimates.dat
governance.dat
mnpayments.dat
netfulfilled.dat
banlist.dat
peers.dat

These files are safe to delete (they get re-created at wallet restart), do NOT delete your wallet.dat

Restart wallet.

 

[camosoul]

stuffs to delete

For a more complete list, here's the dash-related section of my crontab:

# */30 */* * * ~/.dashcore/dashd
# 1 */6 * * * ~/.dashcore/dash-cli stop
# 2 */6 * * * cd ~/.dashcore && srm masternode.conf banlist.dat db.log debug.log fee_estimates.dat governance.dat .lock mempool.dat mncache.dat mnpayments.dat netfulfilled.dat peers.dat