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Dash Nation Consensus Discussion

crowning said:
See?
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Lol. exactly.

If these guys actually joined with team instead of grating against it, Dash would be better for it, TDG is one of the most web-savvy people here, Solar could be a great project manager and i'm sure can move mountains on Retail when we're ready for it, FTG was our Android guy, Buster is our Media guy and Tao is a great promoter, that's why it narcs me so much ;) I'm not going to engage with them anymore, I tried building bridges privately and failed to the point where I flipped out when Buster left torpedoing my only chance to explain my take on Evolution I had been building up to for 2 months, and wish I hadn't. I just hope they come round and we can all work as a team. Back to coding and ignoring all this from the warm fuzzy confines of team Slack is the safest bet for me at this point :)
 
AndyDark said:
Lol. exactly.

If these guys actually joined with team instead of grating against it, Dash would be better for it, TDG is one of the most web-savvy people here, Solar could be a great project manager and i'm sure can move mountains on Retail when we're ready for it, FTG was our Android guy, Buster is our Media guy and Tao is a great promoter, that's why it narcs me so much ;) I'm not going to engage with them anymore, I tried building bridges privately and failed to the point where I flipped out when Buster left torpedoing my only chance to explain my take on Evolution I had been building up to for 2 months, and wish I hadn't. I just hope they come round and we can all work as a team. Back to coding and ignoring all this from the warm fuzzy confines of team Slack is the safest bet for me at this point :)
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I was going to type out this whole speech but fuck it.

Whats the point of there being a 'core' team anyways in a decentralized project? Doesn't that just create divides?
 
crowning said:
See?
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@TheDashGuy and his posts are not what we're debating here. Bringing people together, not highlighting our differences, should be the goal here. There are people engaging in ad hominem attacks on both sides, yet I wouldn't call either side toxic. I will respond to constructive feedback from both sides to bring us together, and I have. I will never attack anyone, as I believe we are all Dash Nation, and everyone's opinions are valued. These are our growing pains we must go through if we truly claim to have decentralized governance.

Please, both sides, contribute with ideas, not attacks. This is a very sensitive issue, let's not make it harder.
 
TaoOfSatoshi said:
@TheDashGuy and his posts are not what we're debating here. Bringing people together, not highlighting our differences, should be the goal here. There are people engaging in ad hominem attacks on both sides, yet I wouldn't call either side toxic. I will respond to constructive feedback from both sides to bring us together, and I have. I will never attack anyone, as I believe we are all Dash Nation, and everyone's opinions are valued. These are our growing pains we must go through if we truly claim to have decentralized governance.

Please, both sides, contribute with ideas, not attacks. This is a very sensitive issue, let's not make it harder.
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Kick everyone off core who can't code. Stop paying people like @tungfa to do what the regular users should be doing. Either that or open applications to core publicly.

This is becoming redundant as hell.
 
TheDashGuy said:
I was going to type out this whole speech but fuck it.

Whats the point of there being a 'core' team anyways in a decentralized project? Doesn't that just create divides?
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it's not just coding right, taking tech to market is more. team needed to do that (even if it's appointed by the DAO itself)...and faith in team's decisions...and positivity.....:)
 
AndyDark said:
it's not just coding right, taking tech to market is more. team needed to do that (even if it's appointed by the DAO itself)...and faith in team's decisions...and positivity.....:)
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So open applications publicly. Put your money where your mouth is. Stop playing friends & favorites.

Because all that we have now is the "Dash Cool Kids Core Club" as opposed to a "core team".
 
TheDashGuy said:
So open applications publicly. Put your money where your mouth is. Stop playing friends & favorites.

Because all that we have now is the "Dash Cool Kids Core Club" as opposed to a "core team".
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trying to bring you round for good of Dash....i'm done debating, network wants me to code, that's what i'm gonna do. if you don't like it, sorry dude....................

EDIT: BTW i'm not in the Core Team, i'm in the Web Team...:eek:
 
AndyDark said:
trying to bring you round for good of Dash....i'm done debating, network wants me to code, that's what i'm gonna do. if you don't like it, sorry dude....................
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You just completely disregarded my very honest and serious post. You want to have a discussion without shit being thrown at the wall, here it is.

So seriously, why is there no application for forum mods, or core team gigs? Why is it always up to whoever you guys "like" as opposed to credentials and actual proof of work?

Why is it so hard to answer that honestly?

edit: and if anyone still thinks Im trolling, I'm very serious about this. I've got half a mind to stop contributing in any form just because all I seem to be doing helping pad the pockets of a small subset of people. Some of whom keep throwing thier weight around and acting like some members opinons have no value, and THAT is what im sick of.

As was said before, i'm sick of feeling like I'm walking on eggshells because I have an opinion.
 
TheDashGuy said:
You just completely disregarded my very honest and serious post. You want to have a discussion without shit being thrown at the wall, here it is.

So seriously, why is there no application for forum mods, or core team gigs? Why is it always up to whoever you guys "like" as opposed to credentials and actual proof of work?

Why is it so hard to answer that honestly?
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I missed what you said actually...we can't open everything up, if it's all public it's vulnerable to competition, sabotage until things locked in, etc. That's why you need some privacy. It's a dichotomy of the DAO and we need to find a balance. but you guys are positioning on the outside and just throwing rocks. There is no process to be 'allowed' in other than contribute and show some trust and continued commitment - Evan said it best "to be in the team all you have to do is do something to forward Dash everyday" or something like that. I know that because that's what I did.
 
AndyDark said:
I missed what you said actually...we can't open everything up, if it's all public it's vulnerable to competition, sabotage until things locked in, etc. That's why you need some privacy. It's a dichotomy of the DAO and we need to find a balance. but you guys are positioning on the outside and just throwing rocks. There is no process to be 'allowed' in other than contribute and show some trust and continued commitment - Evan said it best "to be in the team all you have to do is do something to forward Dash everyday" or something like that. I know that because that's what I did.
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I get that. But what I don't get is there seems to be this aura of "the team is big enough" or something and thats bull.

Once I stop seeing this whole "core team always knows better" crap I'll stop being a dick, but just because you think you are part of the cool kids club doesn't give your opinion anymore weight than @craigrant . Seriously.

Are we going to start banning and censoring people who disagree next? Cause thats were we are headed.
 
TheDashGuy said:
I get that. But what I don't get is there seems to be this aura of "the team is big enough" or something and thats bull.

Once I stop seeing this whole "core team always knows better" crap I'll stop being a dick, but just because you think you are part of the cool kids club doesn't give your opinion anymore wait than @craigrant . Seriously.

Are we going to start banning and censoring people who disagree next? Cause thats were we are headed.
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that's true to the extent that i think there is confidence in the overall core team strategy, but you have to have that or how can a team work to a single goal. but that doesn't mean the team doesn't respect other people's opinions or learn from them or listen to all Busters episodes or read Tao's tweets and think 'cool' - i need to go around thanking everyone? who is thanking me or the other coders im working with i dont even think anyone here knows who they are and they're not looking for moral support??? seriously, we need to toughen up a bit here. i dont like your style a lot of the time but obviously i respect your ability and contribution or why would i be chatting about it. too fragile.
 
AndyDark said:
that's true to the extent that i think there is confidence in the overall core team strategy, but you have to have that or how can a team work to a single goal. but that doesn't mean the team doesn't respect other people's opinions or learn from them or listen to all Busters episodes or read Tao's tweets and think 'cool' - i need to go around thanking everyone? who is thanking me or the other coders im working with i dont even think anyone here knows who they are and they're not looking for moral support??? seriously, we need to toughen up a bit here. i dont like your style a lot of the time but obviously i respect your ability and contribution or why would i be chatting about it. too fragile.
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Ok well to be fair, my 'style' is just me being irritated that everytime one of us "fudsters" brings up a valid point we get steamrolled by assumptions and people blindly defending it without providing much reasoning as to why it is the way it is. I still have respect for everyone on the core team, but don't expect that to keep me quiet. I want this project to ACTUALLY be decentralized and moving towards a "skynet" type system. We are not doing that, we are actively marching towards more centralization and valuing the community less and less by putting the actual power in the hands of the people who may or may not be qualified to manage it properly.
 
@TheDashGuy @AndyDark Bravo! Enjoyed that last exchange. Andy brought up some decent points and so did TheDashGuy.

The point of this discussion is how to we meet in the middle so every Dash Nation member, core or not, feels valued for their contributions or investment?

Thank you for your honest and impersonal posts. Discussing things in that way will get us way farther than promoting a culture of "us vs. them", which is the opposite of the concept of Dash Nation.
 
TheDashGuy said:
Ok well to be fair, my 'style' is just me being irritated that everytime one of us "fudsters" brings up a valid point we get steamrolled by assumptions and people blindly defending it without providing much reasoning as to why it is the way it is. I still have respect for everyone on the core team, but don't expect that to keep me quiet. I want this project to ACTUALLY be decentralized and moving towards a "skynet" type system. We are not doing that, we are actively marching towards more centralization and valuing the community less and less by putting the actual power in the hands of the people who may or may not be qualified to manage it properly.
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i think this whole debate shows we are moving away from centralization, other cryptos the core teams are totally locked in. at the end of the day if the 'team' are dicks we can be kicked out you have to give Evan a heap of credit for that and it's the main reason I joined along with Evolution strategy. but its early days, we are doing out best. lets kill the negativey a bit yeah? we can't go to market with negativey, you know that. lets leave it for now, tomorrow i just wanna wake up and not read anything other than stuff with my team and code. the door is open if any of you guys want to get closer, you can all add value like i said. peace.
 
TaoOfSatoshi said:
@TheDashGuy @AndyDark Bravo! Enjoyed that last exchange. Andy brought up some decent points and so did TheDashGuy.

The point of this discussion is how to we meet in the middle so every Dash Nation member, core or not, feels valued for their contributions or investment?

Thank you for your honest and impersonal posts. Discussing things in that way will get us way farther than promoting a culture of "us vs. them", which is the opposite of the concept of Dash Nation.
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I have no ill-hearted feelings towards the individuals I berate, honestly people. I just like to stand my ground when I believe something. As with others around here. We all want the same thing, but some of us aren't planning on getting their the same way it seems.
 
I think there is still a lot of confusion on what is a DAO and what people do.

DAO is not an open-for-all environment where everyone has a say in development. That does NOT mean their voices are not heard and taken into account! Decentralised just means there are no central offices, that the team is scattered all over the globe, not that there is no central point of decision making - thank goodness.

If there were no central point of decision, everyone could decide, countless decisions-againt-decisions would plague development to a complete hault. That would only bring total chaos. It doesn't work. Giving MN or community 100% vinculative say on development is non-sensical. I honestly invite anyone prove me wrong!

And please @TheDashGuy - stop downtalking one of our most valuable team members, one who is irrefutably recognised as busting his ass working. 99% of people do nothing. @tungfa was invited to the team for a very specific reason. Recognition of getting things done, constant dedication and alignment of vision on where whe want to go, cooperation skills and not being bitchy about everything.

Every few pages this discussion get swindled back to inicial premisses already discussed. I'm not calling anyone a troll, but this is troll behaviour! You guys wanted answers, you guys got the answers, but are simply not accepting the facts of life!

Yet team members still come here to try to set things straight. How, what, when and where - have been answered.

Why do we keep bringing back the same arguments that were already addressed before?

.
 
yidakee said:
I think there is still a lot of confusion on what is a DAO and what people do.

DAO is not an open-for-all environment where everyone has a say in development. That does NOT mean their voices are not heard and taken into account! Decentralised just means there are no central offices, that the team is scattered all over the globe, not that there is no central point of decision making - thank goodness.

If there were no central point of decision, everyone could decide, countless decisions-againt-decisions would plague development to a complete hault. That would only bring total chaos. It doesn't work. Giving MN or community 100% vinculative say on development is non-sensical. I honestly invite anyone prove me wrong!

And please @TheDashGuy - stop downtalking one of our most valuable team members, one who is irrefutably recognised as busting his ass working. 99% of people do nothing. @tungfa was invited to the team for a very specific reason. Recognition of getting things done, constant dedication and alignment of vision on where whe want to go, cooperation skills and not being bitchy about everything.

Every few pages this discussion get swindled back to inicial premisses already discussed. I'm not calling anyone a troll, but this is troll behaviour! You guys wanted answers, you guys got the answers, but are simply not accepting the facts of life!

Yet team members still come here to try to set things straight. How, what, when and where - have been answered.

Why do we keep bringing back the same arguments that were already addressed before?

.
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I would have to disagree. I believe the purpose of the blockchain and the concept of the DAO is to rid us of this corporate for profit world we live in or at the very least even the odds a bit for the smaller guys, not just create a tool for people with money to use to make more money.

Why we aren't using the DGBB to fund shit like housing projects in shitty countries is beyond me, but I've been repeatedly told to let my vision of what I believe the blockchain can do, go, and I won't, sorry.

As far as @tungfa goes, he doesn't have to be a core member to do what he does, as you guys make very clear on the daily basis. He should just want to help out of the bottom of his heart for free like the rest of us.

Core either is a closed community or its not, you can't have it both ways. I honestly feel like everyone should play by the same rules and I intend to keep on that narrative until we all are playing by the same rules.

"Decentralization or decentralisation is the process of redistributing or dispersing functions, powers, people or things away from a central location or authority."

I don't know how else to read that definition other than the way I described it, so feel free to point out where I misread something.
 
TheDashGuy said:
I would have to disagree. I believe the purpose of the blockchain and the concept of the DAO is to rid us of this corporate for profit world we live in or at the very least even the odds a bit for the smaller guys, not just create a tool for people with money to use to make more money.

Why we aren't using the DGBB to fund shit like housing projects in shitty countries is beyond me, but I've been repeatedly told to let my vision of what I believe the blockchain can do, go, and I won't, sorry.

As far as @tungfa goes, he doesn't have to be a core member to do what he does, as you guys make very clear on the daily basis. He should just want to help out of the bottom of his heart for free like the rest of us.

Core either is a closed community or its not, you can't have it both ways. I honestly feel like everyone should play by the same rules and I intend to keep on that narrative until we all are playing by the same rules.

"Decentralization or decentralisation is the process of redistributing or dispersing functions, powers, people or things away from a central location or authority."

I don't know how else to read that definition other than the way I described it, so feel free to point out where I misread something.
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I respectfully disagree. You're mixing up concepts. One thing is a decentralised network, the other is a decentralised autonomous organization - the latter meaning;

Decentralised - no central offices
Autonomous - does not respond to anyone, is self-regulated, and is self funded
Organization - defined levels of structure and authority

You can't be organised without structure.

It's terribly simple.

.
 
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