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What are those people thinking?

Regarding Litecoin, imo huge part of its boost is because people are waiting for the same massive grow in Litecoin that happen in Bitcoin in November 2013 because of "Litecoin generation will be halved every 840,000 blocks" and it's ~811K now http://explorer.litecoin.net/
And since someone could really believe in this I think most traders out here are just speculating and have strong understanding that Litecoin now is no way near what Bitcoin was in 2013 (even though they merged Bitcoin 0.10 lately).
 
UdjinM6 said:
Regarding Litecoin, imo huge part of its boost is because people are waiting for the same massive grow in Litecoin that happen in Bitcoin in November 2013 because of "Litecoin generation will be halved every 840,000 blocks" and it's ~811K now http://explorer.litecoin.net/
And since someone could really believe in this I think most traders out here are just speculating and have strong understanding that Litecoin now is no way near what Bitcoin was in 2013 (even though they merged Bitcoin 0.10 lately).
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I remember listening to Peter Schiff's arguments last year when he was trying to downplay Bitcoin and he was trying really hard to highlight the negatives.

Most of his arguments fell flat. However, he really nailed it on this one argument. Sure, Bitcoin has all this tech that is valuable and it's made to be deflationary somewhat but another coin can always come along that's better and steal the spotlight. He really killed it with this argument. Most hardcore Bitcoiners think the 1st mover advantage is so meaningful but it actually isn't that powerful and could be surpassed faster than some would imagine.

Min 9:50
 
InTheWoods said:
I remember listening to Peter Schiff's arguments last year when he was trying to downplay Bitcoin and he was trying really hard to highlight the negatives.

Most of his arguments fell flat. However, he really nailed it on this one argument. Sure, Bitcoin has all this tech that is valuable and it's made to be deflationary somewhat but another coin can always come along that's better and steal the spotlight. He really killed it with this argument. Most hardcore Bitcoiners think the 1st mover advantage is so meaningful but it actually isn't that powerful and could be surpassed faster than some would imagine.

Min 9:50
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Interesting talk but both of them provide some valuable arguments the other side seems to doesn't want to hear :grin:

On that specific "1st or not 1st" I'm more with the idea that it's not about who is first but where people actually do smth. And that's why it's no way Litecoin should have any chance other than (yet) liquid speculation market. They came almost 4 years ago and all they did is literally "Hey, there can be a coin other then Bitcoin! We are your second chance!". Which was nice back then but they are still nothing more than that imo.
 
UdjinM6 said:
Interesting talk but both of them provide some valuable arguments the other side seems to doesn't want to hear :grin:

On that specific "1st or not 1st" I'm more with the idea that it's not about who is first but where people actually do smth. And that's why it's no way Litecoin should have any chance other than (yet) liquid speculation market. They came almost 4 years ago and all they did is literally "Hey, there can be a coin other then Bitcoin! We are your second chance!". Which was nice back then but they are still nothing more than that imo.
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Litecoin is going to the moon... You all should dump Dash!

Edit: /me is waiting for Udjin to crack another joke in response :tongue:
 
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UdjinM6 said:
Interesting talk but both of them provide some valuable arguments the other side seems to doesn't want to hear :grin:

On that specific "1st or not 1st" I'm more with the idea that it's not about who is first but where people actually do smth. And that's why it's no way Litecoin should have any chance other than (yet) liquid speculation market. They came almost 4 years ago and all they did is literally "Hey, there can be a coin other then Bitcoin! We are your second chance!". Which was nice back then but they are still nothing more than that imo.
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Know what the funny part here is in retrospect? Erik Vorhees started Shapeshift, his new baby project. So in a funny way he kinda` admitted to being wrong on that point.

You don't start a business which focuses on altcoins if you don't believe in the potential upside and growth of altcoins, right? So there's that. ;)
 
UdjinM6 said:
On that specific "1st or not 1st" I'm more with the idea that it's not about who is first but where people actually do smth. And that's why it's no way Litecoin should have any chance other than (yet) liquid speculation market. They came almost 4 years ago and all they did is literally "Hey, there can be a coin other then Bitcoin! We are your second chance!". Which was nice back then but they are still nothing more than that imo.
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Let's don't underestimate importance of Litecoin's liquid market, reliable ways to exchange to fiat money, good reputation in China and so on...
Technology and innovation are not the only factors of success - let's have a look at Hawala.
http://www.gdrc.org/icm/hawala.html
http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/terrorist-illicit-finance/Documents/FinCEN-Hawala-rpt.pdf
It still using outdated mid-centures technologies, but providing at least 150-400 billion dollars money transfers annually - at least ten times more than "innovative Bitcoin with unique technology".

Let's be honest - Litecoin's level of adoption is much better than Dash now, community (https://litecointalk.org/index.php) looks also quite active.
I don't think Litecoin is better than Dash in long run - but now Litecoin looks much stronger on many important aspects and Dash project (all of us) have to do a lot to achieve Litecoin's level at least in terms of adoption and popularity.
 
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alex-ru said:
Let's don't underestimate importance of Litecoin's liquid market, reliable ways to exchange to fiat money, good reputation in China and so on...
Technology and innovation are not the only factors of success - let's have a look at Hawala.
http://www.gdrc.org/icm/hawala.html
http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/terrorist-illicit-finance/Documents/FinCEN-Hawala-rpt.pdf
It still using outdated mid-centures technologies, but providing at least 150-400 billion dollars money transfers annually - at least ten times more than "innovative Bitcoin with unique technology".

Let's be honest - Litecoin's level of adoption is much better than Dash now, community (https://litecointalk.org/index.php) looks also quite active.
I don't think Litecoin is better than Dash in long run - but now Litecoin looks much stronger on many important aspects and Dash project (all of us) have to do a lot to achieve Litecoin's level at least in terms of adoption and popularity.
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I agree with you, and one important factor of success, that can never be neglected, is UNION.

My fear is that the DASH community becomes too arrogant and elitist, by creating an "aparheid of 1st class and 2nd class members", or by "blinding itself" inside a "holy cocoon".
  • Let's never forget to observe and to listen to the "world" surrounding us: We learn a lot with attitudes like yours, quoted here;
  • The community must be supportive to even the most "insignificant" of the initiatives and efforts from its members: I still do not feel confortable depending "solely" on "paid helpers". Voluntary help is still very significant to a community, it could not be diferent here;
  • There should never be some "superior" and some "inferior" members' help: any help should be welcomed. Everyone here has the potential to bring good fruits to DASH;
  • I know that the "enterprise" point of view is the path DASH is taking, but if we're not a "family" here, the project will mean much less for sure.
I am glad to see all the great members in our community. I feel that many here see things this same way, like you for example, alex-ru, like splawik21, like tungfa, like studioz, etc. People with a natural empathy... Actually, most of us (if not all) are like family here already... I just fear that, as we grow, we lose it.

While there's union, while we're a family working together, the "exchange price" will be the least important aspect of it all :wink:
 
raganius said:
  • I know that the "enterprise" point of view is the path DASH is taking, but if we're not a "family" here, the project will mean much less for sure.
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Great post - thanks.

Let me add some more related thoughts:

1. It is hard to unite huge community around 1 leader (except sect - but it's not Dash case :) ) - but relatively easy to unite them around some 1 great idea (mission, ideology). Dash is doing rather good in this area - neutral DASH name afford us offer not the only 1 ideology, but multiple (for every market-sectors) - one mission to attract "freedom fighters", other for "innovative finance world", "privacy lovers", ..., ..., even "USA haters :) "
2. Dash is still in active development stage. Role of Dash "programmers" (sorry if word sounds rude - not sure I can express my ideas politely in English) is huge. For example, by comparison with Bitcoin current stage - I feel role of marketers is dozen times bigger then bitcoin-"programmers". "Programmers" (in general) is a bit specific people - most of them think "if I will create good product - it will become popular automatically".
Only few people know real market situation (for example success of web-site depends (approximately) - 5% of site creation, 15% of website supporting and 80% - marketing (SEO, ...) efforts).
But without strong code-base and "unique idea" Dash project will not attract "army of promoters" that moved Bitcoin to it's current place.
3. As Dash is a digital money... Any Money is 99% "have value" by people trust, believe and use it. In other word if you look at Money as at... Religion! :) - everything may become clear for us.
Maybe it is not the best example, but let's look at:
- Gold as "Christianity" and "Islam"
- Silver as "Buddhism" and so on...
...
But now planet is enslaved by paper Fiat-money similar to "new cults like Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses"
And cryptocurrency have to offer some alternative ideology - "new money religion".
If Dash can't offer such superior (and most competitive) new "money religion-ideology for modern digital world" and can stay only "one of 100500 other payment systems" - no super-code won't help Dash attract necessary "army of believers" to become the real Money. IMHO.
 
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But I went the moon and all I found were liberal moonbats... No LTC.

LTC has still got fools suckered on the whole "Litecoin is Silver to BitOin's Gold" bullshit sales line... Lee knew he was lying from the start, but years later, dumbasses still fall for it.

Scrypt algo, again, another lie from Lee.... Not ASIC resistant, ASIC attractant! ASIC is the only good way to run a deliberately inefficient algo... It was never meant to avoid ASICs, it was destined to be run on nothing but...

Where are the Instant Transactions? Where is the true anon-in-plain-sight mixing?

$ ./dash-qt -litemode

To disable all of DASH's innovation and end up with what is essentially LTC, but with a better protocol that still hasn't been ASICed... And still has MNs backing the network. What was LTC's not-at-all-dedicated node count again? Or BTC's? Or PPC's? Or... ALL of them? Whatever, stupid people gonna be stupid, how long have I been saying it?

There are only two unlimited resources on Earth. Sunlight, and Human Stupidity. Some dead guy from Apple did a damn good job of getting them to wear signs, pay a ton for the signs, and actually brag about it... There's a ton of them. Most hold DOGE cuz they can totally CPU mine it...

When do we get to vote on having and paying on-site reps working inside major retailers to get DASH in?

How do you spend BTC at Wal Mart? McDonalds'? The Gas Station?

Some horrible KYC/AML burdened ATM?

Fuck no. You convert it to DASH, duh. IX, spend your BTC faster than your debit card and without being spied on by the guvtrash's ALM/KYC scam/lie/bullshit/violation of privacy...

Privacy Enforcement, when Law Enforcement forgets who it works for...
 
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camosoul said:
(...)
LTC has still got fools suckered on the whole "Litecoin is Silver to BitOin's Gold" bullshit sales line... Lee knew he was lying from the start, but years later, dumbasses still fall for it.
(...)
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It's not different from what alex-ru said, that "now planet is enslaved by paper Fiat-money similar to 'new cults like Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses'". This cult-like behaviour is exactly the "99% 'have value' by people trust, believe and use it" that he also mentions, that's giving "Litecoin's level of adoption is much better than Dash now".

Maybe that explains OP's question. Prices behaviour, now, reflects but some bullshit sales line, some new cult pump and dumps. That's why "price" is not so important for me (especially because I am still buying... so, the cheaper, the better).

What matters to me is the fact that DASH has got this amazing development team, non-stop working on the creation of such awesome technology. It's self-assuring to see how constant progresses are being made. But these progresses are only achieved because backed by the necessary help and incentive from our great nov-dev (but as important) community.

The community as a whole must always feel the incentive to keep bringing plenty ideas and feedback... that must not be held back. That's what will always keep the each member motivated, and as a result, the whole DASH community united, working, improving, with the same missions and ideologies... and the price will follow eventually, not as a sect manipulation, but with a natural necessary evaluation.
 
tungfa said:
Tataaaa
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1115157.0
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Makes sense.

Not that I have anything against Litecoin, I've held some Litecoin like 1-2 years ago and also got involved a bit with their community. However, the Litecoin activity kinda` died down, without any active development, while better rival projects were popping up left and right.

I guess it makes sense this Litecoin pump originated in China, especially as their are currently suffering a total economic meltdown. Charles Lee is of Chinese origin and I guess this helped somewhat with the Chinese promotion of Litecoin. Can't say I like the guy. I've seen him talking on few occasions and always came across as sneaky & sleazy. He's not a real developer, who's actively building up the project but an opportunist who saw a chance to make a quick buck.
 
InTheWoods said:
Makes sense.

Not that I have anything against Litecoin, I've held some Litecoin like 1-2 years ago and also got involved a bit with their community. However, the Litecoin activity kinda` died down, without any active development, while better rival projects were popping up left and right.

I guess it makes sense this Litecoin pump originated in China, especially as their are currently suffering a total economic meltdown. Charles Lee is of Chinese origin and I guess this helped somewhat with the Chinese promotion of Litecoin. Can't say I like the guy. I've seen him talking on few occasions and always came across as sneaky & sleazy. He's not a real developer, who's actively building up the project but an opportunist who saw a chance to make a quick buck.
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What he is, is a great marketer, and for all the negative views one may have on marketing, there is a lot we can learn from him in that respect. We have to learn some of these core skills if we ever hope to take Dash global.

:)

Pablo.
 
As I can see - many Chinese are very reckless guys...

I feel Dash must find specific approach for them... Maybe we should implement external service - "decentralized CASINO" based on Masternodes network? :smile:

"Decentralized, Anonymous, Instant DASH CASINO - with 0% commission!"
 
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alex-ru said:
As I can see - many Chinese are very reckless guys...

I feel Dash must find specific approach for them... Maybe we should implement external service - "decentralized CASINO" based on Masternodes network? :smile:
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I think it's better to focus on implementing more neutral services on top of the MN network. If someone else does it and the MN get paid, so be it, much like devs are starting to build on top of the Bitcoin protocol; but running gimmicks ourselves, and controversial ones such as Casino's, at least at this stage, puts us on the radar of all the wrong people.

I feel like we are still a ways away from the need to have this conversation as we still don't have our core protocol set. The next step will be to make it easy to build on top of the core protocol and MN network for third parties, and go from there.

At east those are my two cents :).

Pablo.
 
fible1 said:
I think it's better to focus on implementing more neutral services on top of the MN network. If someone else does it and the MN get paid, so be it, much like devs are starting to build on top of the Bitcoin protocol; but running gimmicks ourselves, and controversial ones such as Casino's, at least at this stage, puts us on the radar of all the wrong people.

I feel like we are still a ways away from the need to have this conversation as we still don't have our core protocol set. The next step will be to make it easy to build on top of the core protocol and MN network for third parties, and go from there.

At east those are my two cents :).

Pablo.
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I didn't mean to distract Dash developers with external services - they have to concentrate on CORE, protocol and so on. But project also need "fresh money", hight liquidity and so on to become "real money". And such "external casino project" based on Dash protocol could accelerate Dash adoption as Porn accelerated Internet adoption at the beginning.
Just a rough idea - it may be wrong or even dangerous. :)
 
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alex-ru said:
I didn't mean to distract Dash developers with external services - they have to concentrate on CORE, protocol and so on. But project also need "fresh money", hight liquidity and so on to become "real money". And such "external casino project" based on Dash protocol could accelerate Dash adoption as Porn accelerated Internet adoption at the beginning.
Just a rough idea - it may be wrong or even dangerous. :)
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Yep, I got your meaning :).

I meant that Dash being associated with a Casino or Porn at this stage would attract the wrong kind of attention and the wrong kind of crowd. To be more than a niche product we have to keep it family friendly and keep our services as legal as possible (on-line gambling is illegal in the US for example, which is a major market).

I don't have anything against porn or casinos, I'm just saying the associating of the Dash brand with these industries at this stage won't be good for us. Think about youtube in the early days, they could have become a really big operator by streaming all the porn they could early on, but by keeping it family friendly and and non-controversial they built something much bigger than they otherwise would have.

Hope that makes sense :),

Pablo.
 
Are there any real plans to build decentralized apps on the masternode network? I didn't know devs are thinking about it. It would really be awesome.
 
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