Z.Cash VS DASH

InTheWoods

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This will be the talk of town for some time now and will probably become a direct competitor to DASH. http://www.wired.com/2016/01/zcash-an-untraceable-bitcoin-alternative-launches-in-alpha/

Z.Cash has some important names in the industry behind it but I think DASH is much better for several reasons.

Z.Cash is structured as a real company, a fixed % of all the mining profits will go to the company. It has some known names like Berry Silbert and Roger Ver as investors to name a few.

The model they've picked, though, is not as good as the one DASH uses, the decentralized autonomous corporation which is structured bottom up, more inclusive, allowing decision making to happen organically.

Z.Cash is 6 months away from launch based on this article.

The lead developer Ian infamously stated a while back that a backdoor could be integrated into their protocol to assist governments in tracking where coins are sent, which lead to some nasty reactions at the time. He tried to downplay that statement later on.

Criticism

One criticism of zerocoin is the added computation time required by the process, which would need to have been performed primarily by bitcoin miners. If the proofs were posted to the block chain, this would also dramatically increase the size of the block chain. Nevertheless, as stated by the original author, the proofs could be stored outside of the blockchain.[4] To counter criticisms that the anonymity offered by zerocoin would facilitate illegal activity, it has been suggested that a backdoor, or other features, could be added to the zerocoin protocol to allow police to track money laundering, but this was not advocated in the original paper.[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zerocoin
 
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tungfa

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honestly
"bla bla bla ..."
wired and whoever is hyping this is talking and talking and we all "know" zero coin ... bla bla bla
but so far just a lot of talk and no delivery
 

InTheWoods

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honestly
"bla bla bla ..."
wired and whoever is hyping this is talking and talking and we all "know" zero coin ... bla bla bla
but so far just a lot of talk and no delivery
I think DASH (Digital Cash) inspired them to rename their Zero Coin to Zero Cash. They're already watching DASH I'd say.

The news here is them launching an Alpha version. https://twitter.com/secparam/status/689855568534769664

They now have a website where people can test out their alpha implementation on a test network and based on their statements a public beta is 6 months away. In most cases it takes longer than anticipated, so it's probably more like 8-12 months away or so.
 
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TheDashGuy

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I think DASH (Digital Cash) inspired them to rename their Zero Coin to Zero Cash. They're already watching DASH I'd say.

The news here is them launching an Alpha version. https://twitter.com/secparam/status/689855568534769664

They now have a website where people can test out their alpha implementation on a test network and based on their statements a public beta is 6 months away. In most cases it takes longer than anticipated, so it's probably more like 8-12 months away or so.

This. They are just trying to capitalize on Dash being so young. They will fizzle out eventually.
 

InTheWoods

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This. They are just trying to capitalize on Dash being so young. They will fizzle out eventually.
Close to $1mil was invested into their project so I don't think they will fizzle out and their backers have money. I think we should look into what they're doing and if there is something valuable in their alpha test, we need to take those ideas and incorporate them into DASH.
 

tungfa

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I think DASH (Digital Cash) inspired them to rename their Zero Coin to Zero Cash. They're already watching DASH I'd say.

The news here is them launching an Alpha version. https://twitter.com/secparam/status/689855568534769664

They now have a website where people can test out their alpha implementation on a test network and based on their statements a public beta is 6 months away. In most cases it takes longer than anticipated, so it's probably more like 8-12 months away or so.
and there is some other coin
Moneto or something which (supposedly ) will have zero coin tech
even more ... boa bal
;)
 
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InTheWoods

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and there is some other coin
Moneto or something which (supposedly ) will have zero coin tech
even more ... boa bal
;)
Well Ian is the creator of this Zero Coin system and they've now launched something that was planned for years. When I first got into DASH few years ago only reservation I had was if to wait or not for Zerocoin. At the time they were considering adding it to Bitcoin which they couldn't manage to do. Now they're live in alpha public stage https://z.cash/ and I think we should see how their system works and if we can use any parts of it, if there's anything worth using that is.

Lots of people have been watching this project. It was very hyped overall.

DASH will be asked how to we stack up against Zerocash and now that it's live we have the chance to answer that.
 

tungfa

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Great point, so how do we stand up to Zerocash?
by being us
;)
and making sure we stay on (our) track
(full anonymity had to be in Evo , as it supposedly will)
anonymity alone is not enough for the market these days , you still gotta deliver a fully functional coin (with all the shabang aground it)
 
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TheDashGuy

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by being us
;)
and making sure we stay on (our) track
(full anonymity had to be in Evo , as it supposedly will)
anonymity alone is not enough for the market these days , you still gotta deliver a fully functional coin (with all the shabang aground it)
Lets get you to 5k likes!
 
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InTheWoods

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by being us
;)
and making sure we stay on (our) track
(full anonymity had to be in Evo , as it supposedly will)
anonymity alone is not enough for the market these days , you still gotta deliver a fully functional coin (with all the shabang aground it)
Yeah, I agree.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't investigate what they're doing though.

Let me give you an example. Counterparty forked Mastercoin, now known as Omni and ended up being more successful, with higher market cap. If there is something of value in their code that we can implement we should do it.
 

tungfa

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Yeah, I agree.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't investigate what they're doing though.

Let me give you an example. Counterparty forked Mastercoin, now known as Omni and ended up being more successful, with higher market cap. If there is something of value in their code that we can implement we should do it.
yes you are totally right
key will be to have whatever needed implemented in Evo , as that will be our future
 

AnarchicCluster

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XgJkzjmW1onXH8EsaaZakN1GswjjnAYhUE
That is nothing new. Shadow Cash has been in works for over a year now. Apparently they have incorporated zerocash protocol. They promised anonymous payments, messaging and darkmarkets with support for TOR and I2P in one ecosystem based on shadow cash. I liked that project a while back, but it seems that the development has come to a crawl and not much is happening at the moment.

Ps. Didn't Evan want to buy them out and fuse with that project?
 
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TanteStefana

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I've gotten this wrong in referring to this with cryptonote, but it actually is an issue with zero knowledge proof. And here is the killer: "It has been suggested that a backdoor, or other features, could be added to the zerocoin protocol to allow police to track money laundering"

As in any attempt to give tools to law enforcement, there is no way that law enforcement will be able to secure such information, and it will undoubtedly get hacked and thus hackers will be able to mess with the coin. It's simply not trustworthy, IMO. Cryptographically clever, sure, but that doesn't make a good coin.

And what about the creators of the coin? What would they do with the initial key that launched the coin?
"Zerocash is not entirely trustless; it has to be initially set up by a trusted entity" (pulled from http://techcrunch.com)

Unless they found a way around this???

Dash is simple, elegant and effective. With Evolution, it will be super fast and a lot less stress on the blockchain size.
 
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InTheWoods

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A company can be shut down. A DAO can't.
That's a very good point. A company could be easily attacked by regulators and shut down. Good luck doing with with a decentralized entity like Dash.
 
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InTheWoods

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Pantera capital posted this on their blog. It seems they're also one of the investors. This only validates DASH and the need for a fully fungible cryptocurrency. Also, having an established VC among shareholders only tells me that there will be more willingness to insert a backdoor into the software, to play nice with governments and gain acceptance all while lying to people about it just like so many companies like Cisco, Microsoft, Google and others have done. When all you care about is making money the end results are so painfully obvious. It's in their best interest to play nice with governments and introduce a backdoor all while lying to people about it, playing both sides basically.

Z.Cash will use one master privatekey which could unmask all the transactions. If they give gov access to that key, the whole house of cards comes crushing down. It doesn't matter their code is open source. That won't prove anything in itself.

Portfolio Developments

Zcash

Our latest portfolio company Zcash is announcing the launch of their public alpha release. Zcash is the company behind the implementation of the Zerocash protocol, a way to provide completely anonymous cryptocurrency transactions. Users may transact between each other directly, without revealing the origin, destination, or amount of the payment.


Transactions are verified by zero-knowledge proofs, a mathematical means by which to prove a something with very little information (information, in this case, which does not include much transactional metadata). If Bitcoin is HTTP for money, Zerocash is HTTPS. A user can forgo his or her own privacy and reveal proof that the transaction was his or hers, a la selective disclosure. Transaction metadata in the blockchain is confidential by default but can be revealed under specific circumstances. This allows the best of both worlds, strong privacy and blockchain-caliber transparency.

Zcash published its source code on Github and is now allowing anyone to test out the software. It is a “testnet” and not allowing movement of any actual money yet. The launch, which will enable transactions of real value, is about six months out.

Zooko Wilcox-O’Hearn, a computer security specialist who has designed multiple network protocols that incorporate concepts such as self-contained economies and secure reputation systems, heads the team. The team includes highly talented engineers and scientists, one of whom is Matthew Green, one of the investors of the Zerocash protocol and an expert in applied cryptography and network security. The project has garnered support from many of the blockchain elite such as Gavin Andresen, Greg Maxwell, Nick Szabo, Adam Back, and Vitalik Buterin.
 
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