Trust Protector 2021 Elections: a public call for Andy Freer to withdraw his candidacy.

Geert

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Andy Freer has publicly stated in the following proposal that his goal is to dismantle DCG:


I didn't really want to touch on these issues publically before Evo is on mainnet but my real problem with this proposal is that it is against a backdrop of some serious structural problems that have emerged in recent years within the Dash ecosystem, and is likely to make them worse not better.

The issue and the reason why Dash has lost so much valuation, is due to a failure not of the governance system itself but weaknesses within at by allowing huge amounts of centralization to grow which has throttled the historical lifeblood of our growth, massively delayed our innovation, and pushed a lot of people away from the project.

This is in the form of DCG, which was originally conceived to just help Core development but has since grown into essentially an all encompassing government in Dash that's trying to do many things at once, with our innovation to make Dash usable always second place to strategies that consider Dash good enough today and to try to improve payment integrations and SOV.

As a closed-source DFO that's highly centralized internally and the people with the crypto expertise kept at the bottom of the hierarchy and often demotivated or wrapped up in layers of middle-management and having to seek permission for everything, it's exceedingly inneficient at development and people getting burned out, demotivated and leaving is a regular event.

The MNOs have one yes / no choice each month - allow DCG to continue to grow or a nuclear option to defund it. And that is with zero transparency and DCG going away from our original vision - for example for the price of several developers working on our key innovation (Platform) they are hiring a marketing manager when that innovation is years late.

The issue with our governance system isn't therefore that MNOs dont know which proposals to fund - its that the most important proposal is essentially removed from any choices by MNOs or market forces to correct problems when it doesn't perform well, whether that's by allowing decisions on what scope DCG should be taking on, how much of the budget should be allocated to development and not tertiary activities that could probably function much better in the open market, what is command structure and how much say devs have got in that, what vision is DCG following and how well are they doing on that.

My issue with this proposal is that the user proposing it is already close to DCG and hasn't raised any of these real issues and has in fact been highly critical of the solution (our long planned upgrade for usibility) and without any substantive explanation of why.

Instead, the centralization & loss of vision are elephant's in the room, this proposal is a essentially an argument to authority - its not the innovators with proven contributions to Dash who would gain this additional influence on strategy, but will likely be a think-tank of people with zero track record in Dash bolting on to the existing 'government' that is being constantly constructed (DCG, DIF, Trust etc etc) which is always sold as being democratic via elections etc but in reality all the same people following the same strategy which for me is against the vision of our founder and the vision me and a lot of the developers are trying to work to.

What we do need is a proposal to correct these real issues. We want the people with the actual track records of innovation in Dash to have the influence and the funding they need to continue to do that and accelerate and grow that. The Incubator I have been working on is supposed to be demonnstrating the kind of solutions we need to allow others to go ahead and create them, although we're only maybe 70% of putting all the parts for that in place.

Voting yes on this is going to make that harder I feel..we do need to give voices to the people who can improve Dash and restore our position and beyond, but we need radical change for that, not just supplementing the existing situation where we have government not governance, which is the breakdown of the governance system... that is what MNOs need to fix.

Now that we have the actual innovation and final piece of vision for Dash from our founder even with the suppression of that, we are going to need to fix this structure to be able to grow that in the market...we don't want random 'experts' because that is typical of the kind of failed strategies regularly being use in Dash right now... we need people with a proven track record in Dash of delivery and adherance to the vision that the network agreed to and has been funding all these years.

We should be working on a solution to the real problems by dismantling the 'government' in Dash which the longer and larger it grows the lower Dash valuation gets, not adding to it in my view.

This solution should be something like this:

- Core developers should control their own funding directly and their organization should be fully transparent and decentralized
- They work to a vision, and that vision is open for debate and agreed by the network, but their voices are the largest because their contributions that we can verify are the biggest. "Experts" are welcome to jon in, but when they just parachute in with zero history, their influence is tempered by that (Currently our vision *should* delivering and investing in the promotion and growth of our forthcoming ease-of-use features.)
- Any non-Core development parts of DCG should be moved to separate DFOs that are required to compete and earn funding based on actual performance
- We should avoid allowing 'government' bodies to be setup, outside of a single one - protocol development - because what Dash essentially is, is a protocol, and its the one thing needed centrally (and even then it should be transparent and internally decentralized as I mention)
- Restore the vibe in Dash of a smart project that innovates to succeed so that we attract people who like to create, innovate, try new things with free market principles, take risks - not join some virtual corporation where decentralization has become a bad word no matter how loud the wider market shouts that this is not what people want.

Andy Freer


I think it would be inappropriate for him to run as Trust Protector and I am publicly calling on him to withdraw his candidacy.
 

vazaki3

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Andy Freer has publicly stated in the following proposal that his goal is to dismantle DCG:
Dismantle DCG??? Thats great news!!! Well done AndyDark, I wish you the best in your quest!

AndyDark said:

I didn't really want to touch on these issues publically before Evo is on mainnet but my real problem with this proposal is that it is against a backdrop of some serious structural problems that have emerged in recent years within the Dash ecosystem, and is likely to make them worse not better.

The issue and the reason why Dash has lost so much valuation, is due to a failure not of the governance system itself but weaknesses within at by allowing huge amounts of centralization to grow which has throttled the historical lifeblood of our growth, massively delayed our innovation, and pushed a lot of people away from the project.

This is in the form of DCG, which was originally conceived to just help Core development but has since grown into essentially an all encompassing government in Dash that's trying to do many things at once, with our innovation to make Dash usable always second place to strategies that consider Dash good enough today and to try to improve payment integrations and SOV.

As a closed-source DFO that's highly centralized internally and the people with the crypto expertise kept at the bottom of the hierarchy and often demotivated or wrapped up in layers of middle-management and having to seek permission for everything, it's exceedingly inneficient at development and people getting burned out, demotivated and leaving is a regular event.

The MNOs have one yes / no choice each month - allow DCG to continue to grow or a nuclear option to defund it. And that is with zero transparency and DCG going away from our original vision - for example for the price of several developers working on our key innovation (Platform) they are hiring a marketing manager when that innovation is years late.

The issue with our governance system isn't therefore that MNOs dont know which proposals to fund - its that the most important proposal is essentially removed from any choices by MNOs or market forces to correct problems when it doesn't perform well, whether that's by allowing decisions on what scope DCG should be taking on, how much of the budget should be allocated to development and not tertiary activities that could probably function much better in the open market, what is command structure and how much say devs have got in that, what vision is DCG following and how well are they doing on that.

My issue with this proposal is that the user proposing it is already close to DCG and hasn't raised any of these real issues and has in fact been highly critical of the solution (our long planned upgrade for usibility) and without any substantive explanation of why.

Instead, the centralization & loss of vision are elephant's in the room, this proposal is a essentially an argument to authority - its not the innovators with proven contributions to Dash who would gain this additional influence on strategy, but will likely be a think-tank of people with zero track record in Dash bolting on to the existing 'government' that is being constantly constructed (DCG, DIF, Trust etc etc) which is always sold as being democratic via elections etc but in reality all the same people following the same strategy which for me is against the vision of our founder and the vision me and a lot of the developers are trying to work to.

What we do need is a proposal to correct these real issues. We want the people with the actual track records of innovation in Dash to have the influence and the funding they need to continue to do that and accelerate and grow that. The Incubator I have been working on is supposed to be demonnstrating the kind of solutions we need to allow others to go ahead and create them, although we're only maybe 70% of putting all the parts for that in place.

Voting yes on this is going to make that harder I feel..we do need to give voices to the people who can improve Dash and restore our position and beyond, but we need radical change for that, not just supplementing the existing situation where we have government not governance, which is the breakdown of the governance system... that is what MNOs need to fix.

Now that we have the actual innovation and final piece of vision for Dash from our founder even with the suppression of that, we are going to need to fix this structure to be able to grow that in the market...we don't want random 'experts' because that is typical of the kind of failed strategies regularly being use in Dash right now... we need people with a proven track record in Dash of delivery and adherance to the vision that the network agreed to and has been funding all these years.

We should be working on a solution to the real problems by dismantling the 'government' in Dash which the longer and larger it grows the lower Dash valuation gets, not adding to it in my view.

This solution should be something like this:

- Core developers should control their own funding directly and their organization should be fully transparent and decentralized
- They work to a vision, and that vision is open for debate and agreed by the network, but their voices are the largest because their contributions that we can verify are the biggest. "Experts" are welcome to jon in, but when they just parachute in with zero history, their influence is tempered by that (Currently our vision *should* delivering and investing in the promotion and growth of our forthcoming ease-of-use features.)
- Any non-Core development parts of DCG should be moved to separate DFOs that are required to compete and earn funding based on actual performance
- We should avoid allowing 'government' bodies to be setup, outside of a single one - protocol development - because what Dash essentially is, is a protocol, and its the one thing needed centrally (and even then it should be transparent and internally decentralized as I mention)
- Restore the vibe in Dash of a smart project that innovates to succeed so that we attract people who like to create, innovate, try new things with free market principles, take risks - not join some virtual corporation where decentralization has become a bad word no matter how loud the wider market shouts that this is not what people want.



I think it would be inappropriate for him to run as Trust Protector and I am publicly calling on him to withdraw his candidacy.
I think I will vote for AndyDark as Trust Protector, provided of course that he really believes what he said and that after succeding dismantling DCG , he will then succeed dismantling himself.

But where is the vote?
It was planned to start at March 29, 2021 , but I cannot discover where I vote into Dashwatch.org.....

Anyway, here is the site where someone can vote.

"During this process Yaltabaoth and his angels hear the voice of the Monad’s Spirit. While they are terrified by the voice, its echo leaves a trace of an image of the Spirit on the “waters” that form the roof of their realm. Hoping to harness this power for themselves, they attempt to create a copy of this image. The end result of this process is the first human man, Adam. Recognizing an opportunity to retrieve the light imprisoned in the darkness of Yaltabaoth and his world, Sophia and agents of the higher order, referred to variously as the ‘plenoria’ or the ‘Epinoia’, and later as the ‘pleroma’, devise a scheme. They trick Yaltabaoth into blowing his own spiritual essence into Adam. This simultaneously animates Adam and empties Yaltabaoth of the portion of his being derived from Sophia. Seeing the luminosity, intelligence and general superiority of the now animate Adam, Yaltabaoth and the Archons regret their creation and do their best to imprison or dispose of him. Failing to do so, they then attempt to neutralize him by placing him in the Garden of Eden. In this narrative, the Garden of Eden is a false paradise where the fruit of the trees is sin, lust, ignorance, confinement and death. While they give Adam access to the tree of Life, they conceal the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. According to this narrative, the Tree actually represents the penetration of the positive forces of the higher world and the Epinoia into Yaltabaoth’s realm." ref

"This concludes Christ's message. Finally, the savior states that anyone who shares these revelations for personal profit will be cursed. The "Nag Hammadi Codex III" version of the text ends with the prayer, “Jesus Christ, Amen”. " ref

 
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Geert

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The reason we need DCG (and the DIF) is because, "The world is a business."


We need corporations representing the DAO and we need to keep core development under the command of Ryan and our wonderful CTO Bob Carroll. Andy's autocratic machine that dispenses Dash like "Scooby Snacks" to get people to perform can only do so much.
 
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vazaki3

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The reason we need DCG (and the DIF) is because, "The world is a business."


We need corporations representing the DAO and we need to keep core development under the command of Ryan and our wonderful CTO Bob Carroll. Andy's autocratic machine that dispenses Dash like "Scooby Snacks" to get people to perform can only do so much.

Of course Dash needs DCG and DIF. But It doesnt need the kind of DIF and DCG it currently has.

@AndyDark explains the kind of experts that DIF and DCG needs. Dash comminity needs experts that proved their expertise and (above all) FAITH within the Dash borders and by using Dash metrics, and certainly NOT some random experts that are considered as (un)proven experts outside the Dash comnunity.

@AndyDark said:
...we don't want random 'experts' because that is typical of the kind of failed strategies regularly being use in Dash right now... we need people with a proven track record in Dash of delivery and adherance to the vision that the network agreed to and has been funding all these years.
DCG is a team that refuses to be judged and to be inspected by using DashWatch or any other metrics scheme, and this is very supicious. Their current average monthly salary is 247500/30=8233 USD, as long as 30 persons are paid members of the DCG. But they refuse to be judged and to be inspected by using objective metrics, we dont even know how much each one of them earns!!!

We certainly need corporations representing the Dash DAO, but IMHO the current DCG and the current DIF failed in their role. I HAVE 4.5 DAMNED DASH coins , I HAVE THEM FOR ALMOST 5 YEARS, AND I CANNOT USE THEM AND BUY THINGS IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD. In my eyes, this is a clear failure of DCG and of DIF. So the persons who represent Dash community as a corporation should change.
 
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Geert

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DCG is a team that refuses to be judged and be inspected by using DashWatch or any other metrics scheme, and this is very supicious in my eyes.
DashWatch oversight is not needed with DCG because DCG creates professional, detailed quarterly reports. That argument is a red herring.

So @vazaki3, what do think will happen if the next group of trust protectors goes rogue and, against the will of the DAO, decides to dismantle DCG?
 

vazaki3

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DashWatch oversight is not needed with DCG because DCG creates professional, detailed quarterly reports. That argument is a red herring.
Quarterly reports is not an objective metric. It is what DCG claim they did. Τhere is no independant institution that can crosscheck their claims.

So @vazaki3, what do think will happen if the next group of trust protectors goes rogue and, against the will of the DAO, decides to dismantle DCG?

I dont think the trust protectors can act against the will of the DAO and dismantle DCG.
The DAO pays DCG, not the trust protectors.
So only the DAO can dismantle DCG.
In case the trust protectors goes rogue and dismantle DCG against the will of the DAO, DCG version 2 could appear.
The trust protectors are legaly powerfull to dismantle DCG version 1, they have no power at all on a future DCG version 2.
 
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Geert

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I'm relieved that Hytham has decided to run for trust protector. If we can get Hytham, Walter, and Patrick elected, I will sleep a lot better at night.
 

vazaki3

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I'm relieved that Hytham has decided to run for trust protector. If we can get Hytham, Walter, and Patrick elected, I will sleep a lot better at night.
I rejected Patric due to this.

I dont want someone who deals with tax collectors to be a Dash Trust Protector.

Can you give some arguments in favor of Walter or Unchained?
 
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Geert

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Perry Woodin's company offers a service that helps people make certain accounting calculations. It's completely voluntary. I don't see why you would have a problem with that. Not everyone wants to be an outlaw!
 

vazaki3

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Perry Woodin's company offers a service that helps people make certain accounting calculations. It's completely voluntary. I don't see why you would have a problem with that. Not everyone wants to be an outlaw!
Outlaw? In which country's laws?
I am not an outlaw. I just do not obey to laws decided by dictatorships.

Additionaly , I do not like people who, by their work, serve and facilitate dictatorships .
 

Geert

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Caesar was a dictator, and remember -- we must render unto Caesar...

The Latin word "imperator" derives from the stem of the verb imperare, meaning 'to order, to command'. It was originally employed as a title roughly equivalent to commander under the Roman Republic. Later it became a part of the titulature of the Roman Emperors as part of their cognomen. The English word emperor derives from imperator via Old French: Empereür.
 

vazaki3

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Caesar was a dictator, and remember -- we must render unto Caesar...
We must not render unto Caesar!!!!
The only thing we may do, is to give to the Caesar what belongs to Caesar.

Dash money does not belong to the Caesar.
It belongs to the Dash community.
So we dont give Dash money to the Caesar.
 

GrandMasterDash

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I think it would be inappropriate for him to run as Trust Protector and I am publicly calling on him to withdraw his candidacy.
It seems you misunderstood what a Trust Protector does. They will have personal opinions - everyone has personal opinions - but it's not their duty to enact or coerce others. A Trust Protector facilitates the wishes of the network. If you don't think he will do that, by all means don't vote for him. But if he's passed the necessary KYC to be a Trust Protector, then it will stand.

Please feel free to put your own name forward next time.
 
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Geert

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It seems you misunderstood what a Trust Protector does. They will have personal opinions - everyone has personal opinions - but it's not their duty to enact or coerce others. A Trust Protector facilitates the wishes of the network. If you don't think he will do that, by all means don't vote for him. But if he's passed the necessary KYC to be a Trust Protector, then it will stand.
I am publicly asking Andy Freer to do the honorable thing and stand down, because anyone who is publicly opposed to the existence of Dash Core Group cannot faithfully serve the DAO as a trust protector. We are talking about a colossal conflict of interest.

You do not put the fox in charge of the henhouse.
 

vazaki3

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You do not put the fox in charge of the henhouse.
AndyDark is certainly a fox. I also dont trust him. Thats the reason I voted for him.

I voted for AndyDark to become a Dash TrustProtector in order for him to have the chance to gain my trust.
Although he is a fox, Ι still doubt about him. By giving him power, he will reveal himself.
 

GrandMasterDash

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I am publicly asking Andy Freer to do the honorable thing and stand down, because anyone who is publicly opposed to the existence of Dash Core Group cannot faithfully serve the DAO as a trust protector. We are talking about a colossal conflict of interest.

You do not put the fox in charge of the henhouse.
I'd say Mark Mason is a bigger conflict of interest, being he actually states his role as working for DCG. Shall we deny him the chance also?
 

Geert

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I'd say Mark Mason is a bigger conflict of interest, being he actually states his role as working for DCG. Shall we deny him the chance also?
Wrong. DashPress is a DFO. MM is paid directly by the treasury. He works WITH DCG, not FOR DCG.
 

GrandMasterDash

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Wrong. DashPress is a DFO. MM is paid directly by the treasury. He works WITH DCG, not FOR DCG.
Hahaha, oh sure, technically a "DFO". What kind of working relationship do you think it is that affords him a dash.org email address ([email protected]) or the "newsroom" subdomain to dash.org? Yes, his role necessitates a close working relationship with Dash Core Group, privy to inside information before it is made public. In fact, his relationship so close, his salary should come from DCGs 60% theft from the treasury. If you don't think dash is an insiders game, I don't know how to help you.
 

Geert

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...his relationship so close, his salary should come from DCG...
Mark Mason should be happy to be doing publicity for DCG. If I had my way they would be using a professional PR firm. I see MM more as a kind of spokesmodel -- the male counterpart to Amanda B. Johnson.

...DCGs 60% theft from the treasury.
Theft? Every Duff that DCG spends is awarded by the DAO. You sound pretty butthurt about that.
 

GrandMasterDash

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Mark Mason should be happy to be doing publicity for DCG. If I had my way they would be using a professional PR firm. I see MM more as a kind of spokesmodel -- the male counterpart to Amanda B. Johnson.

Theft? Every Duff that DCG spends is awarded by the DAO. You sound pretty butthurt about that.
I think you missed what I was saying. If you think Andy Freer should stand down, then I proposed there is just reason why others such as Mark should stand down. As it goes, I think Mark does an okay job, though considering his role, I think DCG should be hiring him directly. As it stands, DCG sucks up 60% of the treasury and then on top of that the DAO votes to pay people like Mark who are, to all intents and purposes, working for DCG anyway. The test for that is relatively straight forward; would that person(s) continue to function independently of others?

I used the word theft because it feels like a heist. The dollar value of dash went up so they hired more people to maximize and justify a continuation of 60% treasury. This is wrong because it starves the DAO of other important functions and diversity.
 

Geert

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Let's just agree to disagree. I am happy with the current arrangement of 60% of the budget going to DCG if that's what RT thinks is best.

Just as war is too important to be left to the generals, Dash is too important to be left to the developers.
 

Geert

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protect.jpg


Wow. We definitely dodged a bullet with this trust protector election. DCG friendlies and enemy combatants are split 3-3 according to my calculations. And we removed the DashRetail PO from the trust -- a nice bonus!

It's a great day for Dash.
 

Heisenberg

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安迪是对的。
但是他不知道,事实通常是少数人掌握的。
但是他无法将其他任何人变成爱因斯坦。
显然,现在为时已晚
 

vazaki3

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Wow. We definitely dodged a bullet with this trust protector election. DCG friendlies and enemy combatants are split 3-3 according to my calculations. And we removed the DashRetail PO from the trust -- a nice bonus!

It's a great day for Dash.
The election was a total failure

7% participation cannot represent any trust.

The voting period should be extended, until 25% of the masternodes vote.
 

Geert

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As usual @vazaki3 you are obsessed with the vote itself and not what it means. Based upon their public statements, it's clear that Mark, Andy and Hilawe are in agreement that DCG should be destroyed. If they had one more ally, they would have had a majority and the ability to do just that.

We have to do a better job next year of encouraging responsible, intelligent and trustworthy people who do not have conflicts of interest or axes to grind to run for trust protector.

My prediction is that Andy Freer is probably going to leave the project again when he realizes that he won't be able to make DCG go away. He wants control of all the development dollars. He's here out of spite. If he truly wanted to help Dash he would not have left the project in the first place.
 
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vazaki3

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In that case @Geert , I suggest the elected trust protectors to start doing their duties (can Dash operate without trust protectrs? I think not....).
But at the same time the voting period should be extented until the participation reaches at least 25% (or even more if you say so, lets vote the numbers on it).
By extending the voting period we are safe in case Andy finally becomes a fox, because the electorate preserves its rights to expell him.