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The war has begun , time for the big guns

Discussion in 'Pre + Budget Proposal Discussions' started by Dashmaximalist, Sep 19, 2017.

?

Fund the best idea for mining based heating equipment

  1. yes

    2 vote(s)
    66.7%
  2. no

    1 vote(s)
    33.3%
  1. Dashmaximalist

    Dashmaximalist Active Member

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    China's ban is historic , this is the first a central bank of $20 trillion economy is worried about a tiny $60 billion instrument, and its sets a bad precedent for cryptos in general.

    most central banks would like to ban bitcoin/crypto if they could, thank god we dont all live in this communist prison called china.

    Chinese govt wants to stop any money leaks outside the country as they are worried about possible looming credit crunch and hence the ban, having said that china is a big economy , if they go down all economies will go down with that , if that happens expect Trump like dictators rising up all over the world and then banning cryptos would be the next big step.

    we need to bring as many people as possible before this happens , we are running out of time.

    Andreas was talking about this cool idea of using crypto mining to heat your house or something like that and it pays back for the electricity costs this way ( as the amount of electricity spent mining is exactly equal to the heat generated from mining) , or hot water.

    can we fund some cool ideas like these , if we manage to cut heating costs for general public, mining would become a widespread hobby and it would be nearly impossible to ban such a thing.

    The biggest issue for crypto scaling right now is lack of awarness which results in politicians / banks creating obstacles , if we can provide subsidized heating equipment whose costs are 80% less than normal , people will get into crypto like walmart's black friday.


    [​IMG]


    edit: Turns out there is a such thing already http://en.hotmine.io/ lets invest more into this to see whether economically feasible
     
    #1 Dashmaximalist, Sep 19, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017
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  2. Leonidas

    Leonidas Active Member

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    I wouldn't be that alarmist. There always will be government pro crypto in the end and I'm not so sure that China is not into crypto, as I've read somewhere, they probably just want to understand it before they can regulate it properly. A worldwide ban is impossible, if not the UN would have solved every problem on this planet. The solution to platform echange is p2p exchange like bisq. There are discussion about dash funding its own p2p (but first we'd need to find someone willing to do it). Check it out here : https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/...decentralised-p2p-exchange.16808/#post-139632.

    That's an awesome idea.

    It use be a common way of thinking 100 years ago when people were building the cow or horseshed next to the house to get the free heat from the animals.

    I am 100 % behind idea that has a systemic thinking (instead of a linear one). Thumbs up !
     
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  3. solarguy

    solarguy Active Member

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    In many cool climates, one would need no new technology at all. Running an ant miner makes heat. If you run 2, it makes twice as much heat. In the fall, winter and spring, that heat helps (or completely) heats the room that it's in. Boom, you're done.

    Summer? That's a problem. Not only is the burned electricity not helping you, you may have to pay a substantially larger electric bill to run the AC to compensate. In round figures, it takes at least two dollars worth of AC to remove a dollars worth of electric heat from light bulbs, or the stove, or the ant miner.

    The great leap forward would be pushing the waste heat into the domestic hot water. You need hot water all year long.
     
    #3 solarguy, Sep 19, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017
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  4. Dashmaximalist

    Dashmaximalist Active Member

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    yes we need a complete and creative solutions like these and we should give $100,000 just for a prototype
     
  5. AnarchicCluster

    AnarchicCluster Active Member

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    Dash Address:
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    I am a bit skeptical. I understand the idea, but we'd have to look at the economics behind it.
    In order to convince people to use miners as heater we'd need to make sure that it is profitable for them. Miners do produce a lot of heat but they also consume quite a lot of power. In order for this idea to work
    Income from mining + the saving on using standard heating systems must be lower or equal to the cost of operating your standard central heating.
    I dont have any miners (and free time) so I cant really calculate these things. Maybe someone will.
     
  6. Dashmaximalist

    Dashmaximalist Active Member

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    you didnt have to write this post and tell us u didnt know the answer :p
     
  7. stan.distortion

    stan.distortion Active Member

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    It depends on local energy costs. Practically all the electricity consumed is turned into heat so it comes down to the cost of electricity as a heat source versus oil, gas etc.
     
  8. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member

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    In Ukraine there're lots of installations of house heating using miners. Ranging from small 3kW air heaters up to 10-15kW water heaters. Interested connecting with such projects?

    Main issue, as I see it, is logistics and financing. I don't think it's feasible to send equipment from Ukraine overseas, and I see no point of replacing my current heating, based on wooden pellets, to electricity-based. Yet, local community quite regularly discusses different fancy schemes to push mining/heating to retail consumer.

    Edit: this is mostly for sha256 mining. X11 ASICS are too rare beasts now.
     
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  9. Dashmaximalist

    Dashmaximalist Active Member

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    This is awesome , we should invest more in this particular idea, i see enormous potential in this.

    imagine cutting down 60-80% of your monthly heating bills , wouldnt love that ??

    all we need is tipping point, if we get 20% of population to open a dash wallet and use it , we won the battle

    The biggest issue for crypto scaling right now is lack of awareness which results in politicians / banks creating obstacles , if we can provide subsidized heating equipment whose running costs are 80% less than normal , people will get into crypto like black friday in walmart



    [​IMG]
     
    #9 Dashmaximalist, Sep 20, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017
  10. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member

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    Well, I doubt DASH network would subsidize sha256 mining. And with X11 asics the bottleneck is in manufacturing and logistics.
     
  11. Dashmaximalist

    Dashmaximalist Active Member

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    Yes that's true may be we should subsidize x11 ASIC manufacturing or something
     
  12. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member

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    Assembling local working group on the subject...
     
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  13. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member

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    Next week will try a test installation of D3 based water heater. Also reviewing air miners/heaters. Main issue with them is the noise level, which is unacceptable in a regular living room.
     
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  14. Dashmaximalist

    Dashmaximalist Active Member

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    do you want to outline some sort of proposal like the things you want to try out etc we should fund such a reasearch , i see huge huge potential in this idea.

    if dash can be the first coin to pull this , we can beat bitcoin easily.
     
  15. solarguy

    solarguy Active Member

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    A properly designed water cooled mining rig could be and should be very quiet. Water pumps can be very quiet and you should need zero fans. Air cooling can be made quiet, but it's a lot more work. PM me if you want. I have skills in that space...
     
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  16. Micheal Houvardas

    Micheal Houvardas New Member

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    I have heard of someone using a miner(s) to heat there house, and thought it was a great idea. The noise is something that you will need to get around but people are already running to get the machines, I have tried several times to get miners and not scam sites. When purchasing from Bitmain the site literally crashes every time there's a new batch release. So its coming up with a unique design that can actually do both heat a house quietly and compete against Bitmains beast D3 miner. Has anyone seen how the hash rate has spike in the past month its crazy you could make a $10,000 profit each month from one machine in August now its around $1000, and it will keep rising the more machines that keep being released. So in the end your just in the heating business.
     

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  17. solarguy

    solarguy Active Member

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    This is a great idea....IF you need that much heat/hot water...AND your electricity is inexpensive to start with.
     
  18. Dashmaximalist

    Dashmaximalist Active Member

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    actually the costlier the better coz you end saving more money isint
     
  19. solarguy

    solarguy Active Member

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    Nope. If your electricity is expensive, you almost certainly have cheaper ways to heat your house or office or whatever it is. Electric heat is typically the most expensive heating option you have already.

    If your electricity is expensive, AND you heat with resistance electrical heat (as opposed to a heat pump) that's just economically silly. Maybe maybe mining/heating makes it not silly, but I doubt it. You would likely be better off heating with natural gas and paying somebody else to mine for you. You have to compete with the big operations that get electricity wholesale.

    They will run the hash rate up so high that even getting "free" heat out of the deal, you might still have a hard time paying for your mining rig.
     
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  20. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member

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    We, in the working group, are discussing the missing pieces. So far it seems that we're good with designing and manufacturing ASIC heaters in Eastern Europe and US/Canada. Distribution and marketing are also there. Installation and support might be spotty, but, at least in Ukraine we can cover this.

    Not clear with the X11 ASIC PCB manufacturer.
     
  21. solarguy

    solarguy Active Member

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    If I really wanted to attack this market with a vengeance, I would design the water cooling half to be modular and removable from the computer hardware, since that hardware becomes obsolete so quickly. Then you don't have to replace the whole unit including the pumps, plumbing, hot water tanks, etc. Just swap out the "computer half" using a couple hose clamps and valves. Boom, 5 minute upgrade to the newest mining rig.
     
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  22. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member

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    Well, the pieces I've seen, work exactly that way. SHA256 ASICS, though..

    So far X11 PCB manufacturer partnership is the blocker. If community can assist with this, this would push the project forward.
     
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  23. MizzyMax

    MizzyMax Member

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    I think a cool idea for mining cryptocurrency is to create a program/application that can use any device with a processor to mine cryptocurrency. Start mining w your wii or your Xbox
     
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  24. solarguy

    solarguy Active Member

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    In the old days, it was both cool and you actually accomplished something using the method you describe. These days, if you had a thousand dinky processors all harnessed together, it would still be like pissing in the ocean. Application Specific Integrated Circuits are many -many- orders of magnitude faster and better than even graphics cards, which are substantially better than GPU's, which are substantially better than small embedded system processors.

    You would lose money just on the additional electricity alone.
     
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  25. Dashmaximalist

    Dashmaximalist Active Member

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    THe only way forward is to build ASIC based water heater or air heater which cut down electricity if possibly

    we need to design a very efficient system and possibly patent it ( so only dash can use it )

    Then we are looking at super insane growth
     
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  26. solarguy

    solarguy Active Member

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    Perhaps patent and then license. It would be hard to prevent someone from reverse engineering it. If we license it, it's less trouble to do it the official way rather than roll your own from reverse engineering. But we still get the advantage of having it first for a time.

    I think Evan said he wanted to make it open source, but that doesn't me we have to give it away right away....
     
  27. Dashmaximalist

    Dashmaximalist Active Member

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    is evan talking Mining based heating ? really ?
     
  28. solarguy

    solarguy Active Member

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    He's talking about custom designed hardware to handle much larger block sizes, Masternodes and mining I believe were also mentioned. He said nothing about water cooled to add efficiency, but it would be silly not to.
     
  29. akhavr

    akhavr Active Member

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    I doubt it's patentable. And, even if it is - that the patent is enforceable. Definitely not in Ukraine :)

    Once again, the blocker is the reliable manufacturer of X11 PCBs. The design is already tested on sha256 ASICS.
     
  30. Dashmaximalist

    Dashmaximalist Active Member

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    Can you give a complete breakdown of economics of sha256 ASICS and heating

    If it looks profitable our core team will find it interesting to worth finding a project or two on that

    I am looking for detailed breakdown of costs and savings
     

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